62 replies to this topic

[HellJumper]

blood asp comes and it will mess up the balance real hard...

[MauttyKoray]

Metus regem, on 02 February 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

The problem with the Dragonfly, is 8.5t of pod space for weapons and equipment, after factoring in the 8 hard wired JJ's in all configurations... That's almost half the pod space of the Mech it 'replaced', the Coyotl would have 15t of pod space....

Man you're really negative about everything. People said the Urbie was garbage too, but even without the engine boost, people were running tiny, slow engines and having a ball.

Plus as you said, 8JJs? Yes please. 8.5t of pod space is plenty.

[ScarecrowES]

HellJumper, on 02 February 2016 - 09:50 PM, said:

blood asp comes and it will mess up the balance real hard...

By the time we reach the timeline where the Blood Asp comes in, the game will be completely different. By then you'll have all the post-invasion IS weapons and mechs. Newer more powerful IS weapons will let clan tech finally be clan tech. I doubt the Blood Asp will have nearly as much impact as new IS weapons.

[Metus regem]

MauttyKoray, on 02 February 2016 - 11:47 PM, said:

Man you're really negative about everything. People said the Urbie was garbage too, but even without the engine boost, people were running tiny, slow engines and having a ball.

Plus as you said, 8JJs? Yes please. 8.5t of pod space is plenty.

Only due to the fact that it 'replaced' a Mech that had everything in a high mount like the Ebon Jaguar, was only 10kph slower (7/11/(7 on the Alpha) vs 8/12/8), run hotter than what it replaced....

The Mech it replaced only crime was that it was thought up years later, and they needed a reason as to why the Dragonfly was used and not the Coyotl.

[Coralld]

Metus regem, on 02 February 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

The problem with the Dragonfly, is 8.5t of pod space for weapons and equipment, after factoring in the 8 hard wired JJ's in all configurations... That's almost half the pod space of the Mech it 'replaced', the Coyotl would have 15t of pod space....

And then you have the Huntsman, a 50t mech with 24t of pod space.

Metus regem, on 02 February 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

But give me one good reason to take a Black Lanner over a Storm Cow, please?

Sure the Black Lanner is fast, sure it can have lots of hard points, but it doesn't have the tonnage available to fill them, and ECM is not a reason to include it....

As for the Black Lanner's speed, it's as fast as the Coyotl before the Black Lanner's MASC kicks in....

I can give a reason to pick a Huntsman over the Crow, mobility, while still being as flexable and powerfull as the Crow.

MauttyKoray, on 02 February 2016 - 11:47 PM, said:

Man you're really negative about everything. People said the Urbie was garbage too, but even without the engine boost, people were running tiny, slow engines and having a ball.

Plus as you said, 8JJs? Yes please. 8.5t of pod space is plenty.

Not really the best argument. PGI only agreed to do the Urbi because there were enough people to put their money where their mouth is. People had to pay real cash and reach a point where PGI would agree to make it. Because if we did not reach that set amount of cash then PGI would not make the Urbi and simply pocket the money. We had no guaranty.

Plus the Urbi was more for lols more so than anything else.

Edited by Coralld, 03 February 2016 - 07:38 AM.

[Metus regem]

Coralld, on 03 February 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

And then you have the Huntsman, a 50t mech with 24t of pod space.


I can give a reason to pick a Huntsman over the Crow, mobility, while still being as flexable and powerfull as the Crow.

I have no issues with taking a Huntsman over a Crow, as I see the Huntsman as more versatile. But the Black Lanner is inferior to the Crow....

[Coralld]

Metus regem, on 03 February 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

I have no issues with taking a Huntsman over a Crow, as I see the Huntsman as more versatile. But the Black Lanner is inferior to the Crow....

The Blanner is inferior to many other Clan Mediums, its just bad, 13t of pod space on a 55t mech. Actually its more like 11.5t as every Blanner out there will run ECM.

For those who want the Black Lanner, understand I am not against it being in game, I just want the Clans to have more decent choices to fill their ranks.

[Metus regem]

Coralld, on 03 February 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

The Blanner is inferior to many other Clan Mediums, its just bad, 13t of pod space on a 55t mech. Actually its more like 11.5t as every Blanner out there will run ECM.

For those who want the Black Lanner, understand I am not against it being in game, I just want the Clans to have more decent choices to fill their ranks.

12t with ECM, for Clans it's only 1t....

[pbiggz]

Coralld, on 03 February 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

The Blanner is inferior to many other Clan Mediums, its just bad, 13t of pod space on a 55t mech. Actually its more like 11.5t as every Blanner out there will run ECM.

For those who want the Black Lanner, understand I am not against it being in game, I just want the Clans to have more decent choices to fill their ranks.

Im tired of overengined zero podspace omnimechs. Black Lanner is one of them, but people also want the linebacker for some reason. 65 tonner with 18 tons of podspace? The shadow cat has 18 tons of podspace. The adder has 16 tons of pod space.

[Coralld]

pbiggz, on 03 February 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

Im tired of overengined zero podspace omnimechs. Black Lanner is one of them, but people also want the linebacker for some reason. 65 tonner with 18 tons of podspace? The shadow cat has 18 tons of podspace. The adder has 16 tons of pod space.

Perhaps it's one of those "rule of cool" deals? Because look at the Huntsman. A 50t mech with 45t of pod space... 45 freaking tons! But people would instead go with say a Blanner over the Huntsman because the Huntsman is ugly and the Blanner is better looking even though it sucks.

Edited by Coralld, 03 February 2016 - 08:43 AM.

[pbiggz]

Coralld, on 03 February 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Perhaps it's one of those "rule of cool" deals? Because look at the Huntsman. A 50t mech with 45t of pod space... 45 freaking tons! But people would instead go with say a Blanner over the Huntsman because the Huntsman is ugly and the Blanner is better looking even though it sucks.

Id be ok with the black lanner if they gave it more pod space but we know that wont happen.

Either way, I don't agree with the rule of cool theory because people were asking for the linebacker, and the linebacker looks like ********.

[ScarecrowES]

Coralld, on 03 February 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Perhaps it's one of those "rule of cool" deals? Because look at the Huntsman. A 50t mech with 45t of pod space... 45 freaking tons! But people would instead go with say a Blanner over the Huntsman because the Huntsman is ugly and the Blanner is better looking even though it sucks.

You might also consider that both the Lanner and the Backer fit well into the various metas in play right now. You don't need pod space when you're mounting weapons that don't require it. Both the Lanner and the Backer are guaranteed good hardpoints even without inflation. Both mechs are basically like running an equivalent lighter mech with tons of extra armor and internals.

Wouldn't players be interested, for instance, in a Stormcrow if it could mount the same weapons, run at the same speed, but carry a lot more armor and health?

There really is no downside here. The Lanner is pretty comparable to what the Cicada is for the IS. Noone complains that the Cicada is only mounting, what... 5 medium lasers? A Jenner can do better than that, right? So why take a Cicada over a Jenner?

[Metus regem]

pbiggz, on 03 February 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

Id be ok with the black lanner if they gave it more pod space but we know that wont happen.

Either way, I don't agree with the rule of cool theory because people were asking for the linebacker, and the linebacker looks like ********.

The problem for the Black Lanner, is extra pod space would have to come from the the engine, in this case, stepping it down one step (down to a 330 from a 385), would give the same speed as the Storm Crow, and same pod space...

Oddly enough looking at the Black Lanner on Sarna, seems to indicate that the mech was only produced for 16 years, between 3052 and 3068... looks like the clans figured out it was a bad mech... while the Storm Crow on the other hand started production in 2930 with no end date listed....

To me this reads like it was an experiment to try and get something a little more out of a tried and tested platform like the Storm Crow, but proved to be a failure as far as designs go and thus terminated when it was found to be a dead end.



Over sized engines seems to be a running trend with Clan Omni's since day one, every so often you will find one that isn't, and it's beastly, but it's usually replaced by something else for some silly reason... take the Timber Wolf vs the Savage Wolf, both are 5/8 designs, both have the same load out (Delta for the Timber vs Prime for the Savage), yet the Savage has slightly better cooling at the cost of an XXL engine! That's not a trade I'd make..... Though FL armour is nice, but not worth the cost of an XXL engine....

XXL = ST death for Clan mechs, not to mention generating extra heat by just standing still! (2/4/6 depending when standing/walking/running with double jj heat up to 6 heat/turn for JJ movement!)

[pbiggz]

ScarecrowES, on 03 February 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

You might also consider that both the Lanner and the Backer fit well into the various metas in play right now. You don't need pod space when you're mounting weapons that don't require it. Both the Lanner and the Backer are guaranteed good hardpoints even without inflation. Both mechs are basically like running an equivalent lighter mech with tons of extra armor and internals.

Wouldn't players be interested, for instance, in a Stormcrow if it could mount the same weapons, run at the same speed, but carry a lot more armor and health?

There really is no downside here. The Lanner is pretty comparable to what the Cicada is for the IS. Noone complains that the Cicada is only mounting, what... 5 medium lasers? A Jenner can do better than that, right? So why take a Cicada over a Jenner?

Did you ever think that releasing mechs specifically for laser vomit meta might not be a great idea? Sure it might work moderately for a time, but the meta will eventually shift, and suddenly the lanner will be an over engined piece of relative garbage. Id love to see a black lanner in game, but only if it has more than 12 tons of pod space.

[FupDup]

pbiggz, on 03 February 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Did you ever think that releasing mechs specifically for laser vomit meta might not be a great idea? Sure it might work moderately for a time, but the meta will eventually shift, and suddenly the lanner will be an over engined piece of relative garbage. Id love to see a black lanner in game, but only if it has more than 12 tons of pod space.

Well, maybe the Blanner might be playable if the new meta was SRMs? Clan SRMs are sort of light enough to use with just 11.5 tons.

But if it were a ballistic meta, then the Blanner would be absolutely turbofucked.


For pod space, it's actually impossible to give it more pod space without removing MASC or downgrading the engine...we can't just give random mechs more weight out of nowhere. We could though give it "indirect" tonnage via heat and/or cooldown quirks to make its limited weapons capacity more powerful, if PGI weren't so skimpy on Clan quirks...

Edited by FupDup, 03 February 2016 - 09:18 AM.

[pbiggz]

Metus regem, on 03 February 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

The problem for the Black Lanner, is extra pod space would have to come from the the engine, in this case, stepping it down one step (down to a 330 from a 385), would give the same speed as the Storm Crow, and same pod space...

Oddly enough looking at the Black Lanner on Sarna, seems to indicate that the mech was only produced for 16 years, between 3052 and 3068... looks like the clans figured out it was a bad mech... while the Storm Crow on the other hand started production in 2930 with no end date listed....

To me this reads like it was an experiment to try and get something a little more out of a tried and tested platform like the Storm Crow, but proved to be a failure as far as designs go and thus terminated when it was found to be a dead end.



Over sized engines seems to be a running trend with Clan Omni's since day one, every so often you will find one that isn't, and it's beastly, but it's usually replaced by something else for some silly reason... take the Timber Wolf vs the Savage Wolf, both are 5/8 designs, both have the same load out (Delta for the Timber vs Prime for the Savage), yet the Savage has slightly better cooling at the cost of an XXL engine! That's not a trade I'd make..... Though FL armour is nice, but not worth the cost of an XXL engine....

XXL = ST death for Clan mechs, not to mention generating extra heat by just standing still! (2/4/6 depending when standing/walking/running with double jj heat up to 6 heat/turn for JJ movement!)

Yeah alot of clan mechs suffer from oversized engines. Thats why I advocate unlocking endo/ferro on a case to case basis (i.e only for the mechs that need it). Even that wont save the ice ferret though, or the shadow cat.

[Metus regem]

pbiggz, on 03 February 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

Yeah alot of clan mechs suffer from oversized engines. Thats why I advocate unlocking endo/ferro on a case to case basis (i.e only for the mechs that need it). Even that wont save the ice ferret though, or the shadow cat.

True, but it would help the poor Summoner... I'd also be in favor of unlocking the heat sink ST on the Warhawk... 'cause there are times when you just don't need that much DHS....

[ScarecrowES]

pbiggz, on 03 February 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Did you ever think that releasing mechs specifically for laser vomit meta might not be a great idea? Sure it might work moderately for a time, but the meta will eventually shift, and suddenly the lanner will be an over engined piece of relative garbage. Id love to see a black lanner in game, but only if it has more than 12 tons of pod space.

Well, you're also going to be able to, with both the Lanner and Backer, to run missile spam mechs (one of the most useful for CW), ballistic/laser builds (gauss-laser), and various mixed builds... all with high mounts for the best weapons.

The Backer, for instance, should be able to run a build similar to typical 4xSRM6 and 4xML Catapult build, but with clan engines and cooling, and a lot more speed. Such a build would be godly in CW, as it would likely supplant the Crow using similar builds. It's basically a speedy baby TBR in that build.

[ScarecrowES]

pbiggz, on 03 February 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

Yeah alot of clan mechs suffer from oversized engines. Thats why I advocate unlocking endo/ferro on a case to case basis (i.e only for the mechs that need it). Even that wont save the ice ferret though, or the shadow cat.

If the SC had been given a few more energy slots, it'd have been godly. Imagine if they release a left torso that drops the ecm and gives 3 energy slots instead. Oh god, so OP.

[FupDup]

In terms of the Blanner...



But hey, at least MASC is getting turbobuffed soon. Assuming that it allows a top speed of +20% like I saw somebody post in another thread, this means your new top speed could be 144.6 kph...that would be so utterly hilarious. Still a mediocre mech, but at least a funny one.