20 replies to this topic

[Norgath]

I would like to discuss the issue of having a low population and therefore a low drop rate for CW. I have noticed that we are able to conjure at least a 12 man cw fairly regularly. this is not a bad thing but I've noticed that new people and people in non-groups complaining either the queue is full or the queue is empty. This behavior is discouraging to individuals and prevents them from adding into the pool players on drops.
To fix this I propose that our primary groups attempt to create a maximum of 8 man cw groups. this will encourage non-cw's to join in our fight. This may decrease our over all win rate per drop. But it will create a call for four or less individuals per drop which will increase the number of drop via incremental necessity. The need for just a few, within a smaller populace, is more easily answered than a need for larger numbers.

[Mogney]

Solo players are often completely turned off by genetator rushing. Might need to adjust tactics if the goal is to get mote solo droppers. But really the goal should be to get them on teamspeak.

[W Wolfskill]

Writing as a relative newcomer, I can say that my experience with CW and the CC has been positive. However, for those who are not initiated into role playing, it can be a little mysterious (the Battletech universe is vast). In addition, the overlays of CW, outside of the gameplay, are not easily deciphered.

Making sure that any new players are offered an opportunity to research sources of background material in order to bring more life and color to the experience would be an idea (stories sell) And a willingness to discuss CW tactics in way that's accessible and that invites questions from the new players to pique their interest into the nuances of planetary warfare are a couple things that might help.

[SmokinJoeD]

I like that idea, most of my CW drops have been with a very inexperienced group(we got pounded) or with ALL solo droppers(we got pounded).

I have had a few solo drops with some 4-8 man groups and they were mostly very positive, and even in a loss I at least enjoyed the round and it was very competative.

...and that solo dropper who did 2000dmg might be worth recruiting too eh? even if not in your group keep him on your friend list for CW invites when your a man short?

[Norgath]

W Wolfskill, on 03 February 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

Writing as a relative newcomer, I can say that my experience with CW and the CC has been positive. However, for those who are not initiated into role playing, it can be a little mysterious (the Battletech universe is vast). In addition, the overlays of CW, outside of the gameplay, are not easily deciphered.

Making sure that any new players are offered an opportunity to research sources of background material in order to bring more life and color to the experience would be an idea (stories sell) And a willingness to discuss CW tactics in way that's accessible and that invites questions from the new players to pique their interest into the nuances of planetary warfare are a couple things that might help.

Yes, I agree. Clarity in the UI is greatly needed. I only started a month ago and only a few days ago did i find out how to add to a cw group from lfg. Having different functions in the space on screen at different times with the same name is very confusing.

[Norgath]

SmokinJoeD, on 03 February 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

I like that idea, most of my CW drops have been with a very inexperienced group(we got pounded) or with ALL solo droppers(we got pounded).

I have had a few solo drops with some 4-8 man groups and they were mostly very positive, and even in a loss I at least enjoyed the round and it was very competative.

...and that solo dropper who did 2000dmg might be worth recruiting too eh? even if not in your group keep him on your friend list for CW invites when your a man short?

I've noticed that the first experience you related is very common. you either have a group of ~12 experienced players who can plow through the enemy, take objectives and winning the match within 10 minutes or you get ~12 individuals who either don't understand how to take objectives or are unable to take relevant command, falling into chaos and getting over-run.

people new to CW should be able to have a fairly consistent positive experience. Win or lose there should be some form of direction at some point. I've played dozens of matches where nobody knows what's going or what to do. having the option to spread your experienced players out is more effective than having them grouped all in one place.

[MovinTarget]

May be hard to monitor/manage but it would almost be nice to have it be a load balance mechanic in the game itself. You ate not allowed to drop as a unit 12 man (emphasis on unit) if more than X singles are queued on the same planet. The larger the X (where X is less than sayy... 9), the smaller your group has to be in order to pick up a subset of singles.

The only 2 ways to circumvent this:
The singles dropping happen to be from your unit OR 3+ units or lone wolves are in your group.

This means that:
If there are 10+ singles, they'll most likely get a game, so proceed as normal.
Cross-pollenation of ideas and tactics could occur.
People outside of your unit will have an opportunity to impress/audition. We remember "that guy" that was awesome and will look for him in the future.

Perhaps a little too "glass half full" but it would be nice to know on those WNW nights that you won't always be hitting dedicated 12 mans...

Edited by MovinTarget, 03 February 2016 - 04:12 PM.

[Norgath]

My intentions may have been misinterpreted. My apologies. This is not a movement to get PGI to change any mechanics in the game. This is only a conscious decision to be made by leaders of CW groups. If PGI were to interested enough to get involved my only suggestion would be to program an interface that allows you to create a single lance or double lance CW upon the formation of a group.

[Norgath]

Now that I remember, the best thing for PGI to do would be the allowance to create and add groups while in the queue. This would be much more effective at picking people up. negating or reducing the necessity for actively creating 'less than 12 man' groups before queue. leaders can call for and add additional memebers for the groups while in queue. This makes it more difficult for PGI because they will also have to alter the grouping graph to be updated through group size changes.

[Gonta]

Norgath, please keep trying to organize English speaking players. It would be great to have in TCAF English speaking commander and full 12 man company. (Full company usually needs ~20 man)

[MingTheMerciless]

Gonta, on 04 February 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

Norgath, please keep trying to organize English speaking players. It would be great to have in TCAF English speaking commander and full 12 man company. (Full company usually needs ~20 man)

Yes indeed, that would be good.

[Danjo San]

Dr Tachyon, on 03 February 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Solo players are often completely turned off by genetator rushing. Might need to adjust tactics if the goal is to get mote solo droppers. But really the goal should be to get them on teamspeak.

We have the smallest population, so in order to be as efficient in planetary gain as possible, the best tactic is to perform the uninteresting GEN-Rush. Sad and boring, but it needs to be done! You can get your kills and high C-Bill payout on Hold Territory.
Is it a boring tactic? Absolutely! But it allows us to gain sectors quicker, and thus drop again faster.
When I call out GEN-Rush as the tactic I regularly see other Players disobey the call and rather fight with mechs. And these are not just PUGs.
I mean once the Planet is more than halfway conquered you can refrain from this tactic and go for kills, but the first part should be demolishing objectives.

[Chagatay]

So much for "Show me the money!" strategy....maybe something of a compromise is in order kill all but like 8 or so or finish on wave 3. 39-40 something kills vs 48 isn't that much of a pay cut. The time spent hunting down the last few survivors is almost always a waste.

[Danjo San]

Chagatay, on 07 February 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

So much for "Show me the money!" strategy....maybe something of a compromise is in order kill all but like 8 or so or finish on wave 3. 39-40 something kills vs 48 isn't that much of a pay cut. The time spent hunting down the last few survivors is almost always a waste.

We were drinking and having fun yesterday, and when my Teammates are begging to kill all, who am I to tell them "nononono we must stay focused" although we've been downing shots for certain scores ... btw. We did lead a couple Gen-Rushes yesterday as well especially right after the ceasefire ended. And the Invasion of Manapire began. Then later on we just wanted to have fun ... We didn't have enough dropships up and running anyway to take full control. and once all the EU-Liao went to Bed and the NA-Davions woke up their numbers defending exceeded ours by far. What happens at 3-4am EU Time is beyond our possibilities. I would have liked to wake up today and see a nice little [SHZ] Tag on the Planet. We did have a Drops with 8-10 of our Pilots and won a lot of games...

[Stoneblade]

Danjo San, on 07 February 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

We were drinking and having fun yesterday, and when my Teammates are begging to kill all, who am I to tell them "nononono we must stay focused" although we've been downing shots for certain scores ... btw. We did lead a couple Gen-Rushes yesterday as well especially right after the ceasefire ended. And the Invasion of Manapire began. Then later on we just wanted to have fun ... We didn't have enough dropships up and running anyway to take full control. and once all the EU-Liao went to Bed and the NA-Davions woke up their numbers defending exceeded ours by far. What happens at 3-4am EU Time is beyond our possibilities. I would have liked to wake up today and see a nice little [SHZ] Tag on the Planet. We did have a Drops with 8-10 of our Pilots and won a lot of games...

On attack you need to kill objectives only, that is the only way a small population can get the wins. Then on Hold Territory you have to kill the all: but try to do it Fast and effectively. But this thread is about the CW group sizes, capping the Drop group size to pull more random pilots in.

[Mogney]

My post appears to have been misunderstood. I was not arguing about the strategic use of the generator rush in regard to wins or losses, I was just sharing my opinion that it could be detrimental to recruitment.

I also said that I am in disagreement with the OP that the goal should be to have a bunch of solo players in our drops, with only 8 guys in teamspeak. I think the goal should be to have all 12 guys in teamspeak, and to get those solo players into those groups, and ideally into Liao units.

[Danjo San]

Yeah, I got you the first time ... just wanted to put my 2 cents out there in regard to Gen-Rushes ... Anyway as SHZ is not blessed with incredibly high member count we do drop with no full 12 man ... I think 10 was the highest we ever had, so yeah.
In regard to teamspeak we tend to stick to our own channel, because we speak a lot of german here and I always issue commands to the entire team via Voip. Works great for me.

[Norgath]

Thank you for the comments. My main focus is the NA TZ and trying to increase the numbers of new players in House Liao. My proposal is one idea. If anyone has any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated. Capping your CW is completely an internal decision. Ideally having 8 experienced players, being in agreement as to what to be doing in the match, should be enough to at least put up a good fight. even if the match is lost we are able to pick out any new comers who are able to follow orders and try to be team players. These are the ones we want to stay and continue to be in House Liao. Having full 12 man groups does not allow any room for potential new players to show us what they are capable of.

It is possible that having a full lance of newbies may be be too detrimental to the team. it is possible that having 9, 10, or 11 in the CW may be enough for each match. I am just saying that we need to make some room for new players.

[Orkdung]

Norgath, on 08 February 2016 - 01:25 AM, said:

Thank you for the comments. My main focus is the NA TZ and trying to increase the numbers of new players in House Liao. My proposal is one idea. If anyone has any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated. Capping your CW is completely an internal decision. Ideally having 8 experienced players, being in agreement as to what to be doing in the match, should be enough to at least put up a good fight. even if the match is lost we are able to pick out any new comers who are able to follow orders and try to be team players. These are the ones we want to stay and continue to be in House Liao. Having full 12 man groups does not allow any room for potential new players to show us what they are capable of.

It is possible that having a full lance of newbies may be be too detrimental to the team. it is possible that having 9, 10, or 11 in the CW may be enough for each match. I am just saying that we need to make some room for new players.

The issue here is that, for example, in NA. You get 2 experienced groups dropping and you bring in your new pilots, you are still playing the lottery (You could drop into an experienced 12man and get butchered)
If we start capping and taking ground, then the Davion Units just shift "X" units. We have 2, they will have 4 to counter and ghost drop.
The idea of bringing on new company to attempt any CW is very likely to be extremely demoralizing to the new players.
I applaud you for wanting to bolster the Confederation with pilots and to make a push in CW, but I would suggest baby steps.
You're going to want to drop a lance of new pilots in with 8 experienced pilots and they have to do exactly what they are told or things go sour very quickly.

And you have the room, grab some players and attack! It's just the reality of CW, the mechanics that are going to continue to hurt.

I know we arent talking about changing CW, but I will certainly voice my opinion here- Roll it back. Roll it back to Phase 1 so you do not have to counter...or just make the counter attack/defend random. I would much rather be swarmed by Davions knowing that they too can be swarmed by TCAF or Units of the Draconis Combine in the north This also then allows the smaller Units to actually take ground and participate in victories.
The double-time/counter-attack/defend has been a complete fail.
CW in general has been a disaster.
Loyalists voting on planets to attack should help, Recon with effects...should help, Purchasing Mercs, allowing Merc Units to be rewarded properly should help.
Holding the Book fo Lorix and my hand and shaking it violently, in hopes that things will change.

PGI, again, needs to give meaning to CW. If I hold a planet (or a MARCH, for instance, or a COMMONALITY...hint hint; a region), then there is worth to that being held. (Cheaper Mechs, cheaper weapons...cheaper ENGINES <--- never an engine sale, is there?)
Say I hold 10 planets within a Commonality (March, Region of space..etc), this then activates the House bonus and allows 10% off ...something (maybe Loyalists vote on is...oh...crazy!)


.

Edited by Orkdung, 08 February 2016 - 03:28 PM.

[Norgath]

Orkdung, on 08 February 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

The issue here is that, for example, in NA. You get 2 experienced groups dropping and you bring in your new pilots, you are still playing the lottery (You could drop into an experienced 12man and get butchered)
If we start capping and taking ground, then the Davion Units just shift "X" units. We have 2, they will have 4 to counter and ghost drop.
The idea of bringing on new company to attempt any CW is very likely to be extremely demoralizing to the new players.
I applaud you for wanting to bolster the Confederation with pilots and to make a push in CW, but I would suggest baby steps.
You're going to want to drop a lance of new pilots in with 8 experienced pilots and they have to do exactly what they are told or things go sour very quickly.

And you have the room, grab some players and attack! It's just the reality of CW, the mechanics that are going to continue to hurt.

I know we arent talking about changing CW, but I will certainly voice my opinion here- Roll it back. Roll it back to Phase 1 so you do not have to counter...or just make the counter attack/defend random. I would much rather be swarmed by Davions knowing that they too can be swarmed by TCAF or Units of the Draconis Combine in the north This also then allows the smaller Units to actually take ground and participate in victories.
The double-time/counter-attack/defend has been a complete fail.
CW in general has been a disaster.
Loyalists voting on planets to attack should help, Recon with effects...should help, Purchasing Mercs, allowing Merc Units to be rewarded properly should help.
Holding the Book fo Lorix and my hand and shaking it violently, in hopes that things will change.

PGI, again, needs to give meaning to CW. If I hold a planet (or a MARCH, for instance, or a COMMONALITY...hint hint; a region), then there is worth to that being held. (Cheaper Mechs, cheaper weapons...cheaper ENGINES <--- never an engine sale, is there?)
Say I hold 10 planets within a Commonality (March, Region of space..etc), this then activates the House bonus and allows 10% off ...something (maybe Loyalists vote on is...oh...crazy!)


.

These are all not bad Ideas and points. CW could have more meaning. But for me simply gaining a planet is enough. Why? the more planets we take the larger space we take up on the map. it is simple and satisfying to me. Being able personally effect the growth and shape of our faction brings me immense pleasure. When RL and 4TCR get together they are nigh unstoppable! In one day, in conjuction with TCAF, we nearly took 3 planets in one 24 hour period! I was amazed and proud to be a part of it. The only thing that even puts a bump in the road is professional teams and dirty tricks.

The only things that I see that really need to be fixed are graphical errors, like being able to see an enemy over a hill top only to have your laser and bullets stop and explode on thin air. Clarifying the UI so that it is easier to learn and navigate instead of taking over a month to find out, "oh! I need to hit the blue button twice!" to invite people from LFG. If they fix these little things they could more easily transition into larger things like better CW maps and, "how do we make salvage more interesting?". A very talented programmer once told me, "It's all about the little things".