60 replies to this topic

[Grimm Peaper]

So how are they going to cripple it this time?

Every time a new potential "super op mech" gets announced, what keeps me from buying it is the question of how are they going to cripple it to make it "balanced". Take a look at the direwolf and it's pathetic torso twist range, the Ebon Jaguar with it's overly large ct, add ghost heat to lrm5 post launch to cripple the mad dog, can only charge 2 gauss at a time specifically to nerf direwolf before it even launches.

People keep justifying the pathetic torso twist of the direwolf because "you gotta have some drawback for all that firepower", so you know it's coming for the Kodiak. So what's it gonna be this time pgi? Poor hitboxes, a tiny torso twist like the dire? Locked crit slots? Please let me know before buy your crippled shiny new mech.

I can already see the qq when the kodiak arrives and has the torso twist of the dire, poor hitboxes, can barely lift itself off the ground with it's jump jets, and no structure quirks so that people will say "man I like the firepower, but it's just too squishy to brawl with it" ala Highlander IIC, Orion IIC, Hunchback IIC.

[Roadkill]

Honestly, as great as the Kodiak looks on paper, it's not going to need crippling. The thing is HUGE. You think the Dire Wolf attracts attention? It's going to look like a stealth Mech compared to the Kodiak.

I don't forsee the need for crippling in any way. It's height and overall profile are all the crippling it's going to need to keep it in line.

[627]

you mean like the IIC mechs were all called OP because best of two worlds?

[Gas Guzzler]

70 degree torso twist range

[legionofvega]

"How are they going to nerf it" thread is the new version of old "DOA" threads.

[a rabid chihuahua]

I don't care if this thing gets nerfed to kingdom come ,I still love the look and will have fun with it regardless!

[Bobzilla]

If everyone pilots them very poorly, the perception will be they suck.

So everyone just play it cool till cbill release and it will avoid the nerfbat.

In all honesty, things that are stronger than they should be get nerfed, and things that are weaker than they should be get buffed. The dire had a hitbox adjustment to help it, remember that?

Edited by Bobzilla, 04 February 2016 - 12:25 PM.

[zeves]

Its gonna get nerfed by drunken pilots Jump jetting into the air like highlanders trying to intimidate.

[Grimm Peaper]

Roadkill, on 04 February 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

Honestly, as great as the Kodiak looks on paper, it's not going to need crippling. The thing is HUGE. You think the Dire Wolf attracts attention? It's going to look like a stealth Mech compared to the Kodiak.

I don't forsee the need for crippling in any way. It's height and overall profile are all the crippling it's going to need to keep it in line.

If a dire and a stare-bear kodiak were both in my sights, I'd fire on the dire first because it would most likely be the slower target that would be easier to kill and likely carrying more firepower.

[Mcgral18]

I was thinking size, as the Atlas was a waste prior to Quirks, due to being crippled so easily.
The Kodiak would have the same issue, just faster. The Hero is essentially a faster S Atlas (~30Kph faster with MASC, but nonetheless)

Gas Guzzler, on 04 February 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

70 degree torso twist range

But this raises a valid point...BattleMaster is painful (the G?), as is the GladBag.
This could easily have the same downside,

[Gas Guzzler]

Mcgral18, on 04 February 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

I was thinking size, as the Atlas was a waste prior to Quirks, due to being crippled so easily.
The Kodiak would have the same issue, just faster. The Hero is essentially a faster S Atlas (~30Kph faster with MASC, but nonetheless)



But this raises a valid point...BattleMaster is painful (the G?), as is the GladBag.
This could easily have the same downside,

The GladBag has a 10 degree quirk though at least.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this had that 70 degree twist range. Complaints would be raised and certain people would be like "durr I'm awesome, weapons are on the arms you don't need torso twist. Learn to jump turn with MASC, like me" and nothing will happen.

MAYBE you will get a quirk, but the GladBag has low firepower going for it. That is not a condition the Kodiak will share.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 04 February 2016 - 02:31 PM.

[SteelMantis]

I hope they don't release any "super OP mechs" and am looking forward to playing a balanced Kodiak.

PS: Are any of the mechs in the OP bad? I only have the Direwolf and it seems fine to me.

[Nauht]

Oh no doubt it will be nerfed.

PGI has a track record of having NFI about what they actually implement in game intil it's actually in game and there's a public outcry.

And the Spirit Teddy just looks too good on paper. If ever there was a mech that needed nerfs after release this is takes the gold medal.

Mind you I personally don't mind as I can definitely see thr need for balance otherwise everyone, I mean Gary Oldman EVERYONE, will be piloting it and nothing else.

I just hope that they don't swing the nerfhammer too hard... like the did with Victors.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

OP is OP, nerf his post.

[Khobai]

Quote

Honestly, as great as the Kodiak looks on paper, it's not going to need crippling. The thing is HUGE. You think the Dire Wolf attracts attention? It's going to look like a stealth Mech compared to the Kodiak.

Except the Kodiak will go like 64kph easily and potentially 90kph in short bursts with MASC. While still carrying the firepower and armor of a Dire Wolf.

You think being huge is going to balance that out? Its not.


Dire Wolf is a target because its too slow to not be a target. It attracts attention because it cant escape and people know that intuitively. Dire Wolf will still continue to be a target? Why? Because the Kodiak can run away and the Dire Wolf cant.

So how does the Dire Wolf stay competitive if the Kodiak gets the same firepower/armor with nearly a 20kph speed advantage and potentially more than that with MASC? Obviously something BIG is gonna have to give way on the Kodiak... more than just bad geometry/hitboxes.

Edited by Khobai, 04 February 2016 - 03:00 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 04 February 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

-
Dire Wolf is a target because its too slow to not be a target.
-

Actually, the reason people focus down the Dire Whale is because they know it will instagib half of their teammates if they don't kill it ASAP. A Whale that is allowed to operate without enemy interference usually carries games.

[Khobai]

Quote

Actually, the reason people focus down the Dire Whale is because they know it will instagib half of their teammates if they don't kill it ASAP. A Whale that is allowed to operate without enemy interference usually carries games

I understand that. But were comparing it to the Kodiak.

If both are equally undamaged, and both have equally devastating builds, and you can target a Direwolf that cant run away. Or a Kodiak thats running away that you have to overextend yourself to chase. Which are you gonna target?

The Direwolf makes itself a target by not being able to get away.

Its the old adage you dont have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun the other guy. Or in this case the bear just has to outrun the wolf?

Since I highly doubt the Dire Wolf is going to get buffs... The Kodiak is going to have to have some massive downside to balance things out.

Edited by Khobai, 04 February 2016 - 03:04 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

No structure quirks.

Remember how everyone was shocked to find that the Hunchie IIC wasn't very tanky compared to the IS Hunchie? Well, people may find that the Kodiak isn't quite as tanky as the Atlas, except for the Clan XL

[pwnface]

FupDup, on 04 February 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

Actually, the reason people focus down the Dire Whale is because they know it will instagib half of their teammates if they don't kill it ASAP. A Whale that is allowed to operate without enemy interference usually carries games.

Yep.

If you don't focus the Dire your team will die, quickly.

Khobai, on 04 February 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

I understand that. But were comparing it to the Kodiak.

If both are equally undamaged, and both have equally devastating builds, and you can target a Direwolf that cant run away. Or a Kodiak thats running away that you have to overextend yourself to chase. Which are you gonna target?

The Direwolf makes itself a target by not being able to get away.

Its the old adage you dont have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun the other guy. Or in this case the bear just has to outrun the wolf?

Since I highly doubt the Dire Wolf is going to get buffs... The Kodiak is going to have to have some massive downside to balance things out.

Since both mechs are 100t and the DWF is hard-locked to an XL300 and no MASC. It has more tonnage to carry devastating weapons. A Kodiak that has the extra speed you are describing won't have the same kind of tonnage for weaponry.

Also, the DWF is reportedly too big for it's current size. It's possible that the DWF may get rescaled eventually.

[Khobai]

Quote

Yep.

If you don't focus the Dire your team will die, quickly.

Again were comparing the Dire Wolf to the Kodiak. The argument was that the Kodiak would be a bigger target than the Dire Wolf because it has a bigger profile.

But Im saying the Dire Wolf will continue being priority target #1 simply because its the most dangerous enemy mech that cant run away. The Kodiak is just as dangerous but it can get out of a bad situation if it needs to.

So whats that mobility going to cost the Kodiak? thats the question... Or is the Kodiak just going to be outright better than the Dire Wolf while PGI lets power creep run rampant?

Quote

Since both mechs are 100t and the DWF is hard-locked to an XL300 and no MASC. It has more tonnage to carry devastating weapons. A Kodiak that has the extra speed you are describing won't have the same kind of tonnage for weaponry.

You forgot endosteel. Direwolf cant have it. Kodiak can. Kodiak is effectively a 105T mech.

Kodiak can have ferrofibrous too although assault mechs generally need the crit slots so it might be tough to fit ferrofibrous all the time. But its certainly doable on some builds. Which is another 3-4 tons. Making it effectively a 108-109T mech.

Kodiak can sink all that extra tonnage into engine, go much faster, and still have firepower that easily rivals the DIre Wolf.

Edited by Khobai, 04 February 2016 - 03:16 PM.