98 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

I go into Mechlab and build interesting mechs, but there is really no point in using anything but a laser-boat in MWO. The rest of the weapons are just fluff to support massed lasers. MWO long range is dominated by ER large lasers. Short range is dominated by medium lasers.

Previous MechWarrior games had the whole arsenal competitive and dangerous. Not having that in MWO is a great loss of game depth. The other weapons need greater tactical strength so they beat lasers if used at the right range or right terrain. I think if the other weapons lack those qualities lasers will just be the best weapon for any circumstance and we will lose all that MechWarrior gameplay depth that Mechlab can bring. That's all.







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Edited by Lightfoot, 02 February 2016 - 02:21 PM.

[FupDup]

Lightfoot, on 02 February 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Previous MechWarrior games had the whole arsenal competitive and dangerous.

That's not true at all. All MW games have had sub-par poopy weapons, and sometimes it has been the same weapons that keep ending up in that state. Likewise, there have also always been certain weapons that are better than them, like the Gauss or ERLL.

I'm not disagreeing that most weapons aren't competing well against lasers, I'm just pointing out that the older MW games weren't flawlessly balanced.

[Tyler Valentine]

Instead of playing a 'fun' build once a night, try running it for a week straight.

You'll find that the meta is overrated and that, with practice, you can do almost as well or just as well in 'mechs with ACs, PPCs, and missiles (maybe even a Timber with 3 ERPPCs and 3 Flamers if you're really patient).

Breaking the meta is about how much effort you're willing to put in (ask cdlord). I'm moving up steadily in Tiers (exp bar??? ) and I honestly run LASER vomit, outside of CW, about 20% of the time.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mauler disapproves of this thread.

[Alistair Winter]

Some people boat ballistics too. So... there's that.

[Revis Volek]

Prosperity Park, on 02 February 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

Mauler disapproves of this thread.

So does my dakka crab and Dakka DWF, oh and Dual gauss jagers, Trip UAC-5 EBJ...

Lasers are good and a lot easier to use then other weapon types.

[MischiefSC]

Tons of laser boat stock builds.

In fact lots of ammo base mechs had energy only variants. Laser boats are absolutely canon.

Oh and you're also wrong. The only reason I have 1 laservomit TBR in my CW deck is because running bins dry on your last mech sucks.

5xAC5 mauler? The gift that keeps on giving. Shad 2H with ac10 and srm4s? Everything wrong with over quirks done right. King Crab. Atlas. Oxide. Jenner IIC. Most Hunchies. Cents. Griffins. Marauders.

You're so wrong that writing a post about how wrong you are is bigger than your original post.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 02 February 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

You're so wrong that writing a post about how wrong you are is bigger than your original post.

This is the same guy who plays with a joystick and uses it to judge weapon balance (e.g. charge up mechanism), so it's just par for the course.

[Wild Pegasus]

Tyler Valentine, on 02 February 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

Instead of playing a 'fun' build once a night, try running it for a week straight.

You'll find that the meta is overrated and that, with practice, you can do almost as well or just as well in 'mechs with ACs, PPCs, and missiles (maybe even a Timber with 3 ERPPCs and 3 Flamers if you're really patient).

Breaking the meta is about how much effort you're willing to put in (ask cdlord). I'm moving up steadily in Tiers (exp bar??? ) and I honestly run LASER vomit, outside of CW, about 20% of the time.

Going against the meta can help your overall skills improve as well. Once I started committing to working with PPC builds, my accuracy with everything else started getting a ton better just because the slower velocity and heat buildup of PPCs require you to plan your shots more carefully. I imagine using Gauss rifles and bigger ACs that can't carry a lot of ammo would have the same effect.

[Zoid]

Not at all true, lasers just have a very high skill floor. Meaning that if you're bad with lasers you're still going to do some damage, whereas if you're bad with pretty much anything else, you're not going to do very much at all.

Conversely, the skill ceiling for lasers is actually pretty high. Keeping an ERLL focused on one spot on a moving target is not a simple task. IS pulse lasers don't take a lot of skill to aim because of the extremely short duration, but they are pretty short-range so getting in a good position is hard.

[Mister Blastman]

CONVERGENCE is why. It is why we have boated weapons that excel and the easy button.

Convergence is not Battletech.

Convergence has to go.

[SuperNobody]

My top 3 mechs all ballistic mechs. I think it's more of a practice and skill thing rather than lasers are overpowered.

[Troutmonkey]

Eh, I do well in T2 with my Shadowhawk 2D2 boating SRMs, and my Oxide, and my King Crab (with LB10X and SRMs )
Lasers, alpha strikes and pin point damage do need a nerf though. I suggest some sort of reticle bloom whenever X damage worth of weapons is fired downrange.

Pretty much what Homeless Bill suggested 2/3 years ago
http://www.qqmercs.c...ence-and-clans/

[adamts01]

SuperNobody, on 02 February 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

My top 3 mechs all ballistic mechs. I think it's more of a practice and skill thing rather than lasers are overpowered.

This kind if sums it up. Lasers aren't OP, but they are much easier to use. Energy boats really are easy button, but they can't sustain in an aggressive fight, so they definitely have their limits.

[MischiefSC]

Lasers are consistent and if you're a top performing player on a top team who focuses fire on the same hit location it's ideal.

For everyone else the difference is slim at best. You'll probably see more benefit from ballistics due to lower heat and ability to sustain fire longer.

A 10% range buff is irrelevant to 90% of players. So are most the quirks. It's more psychological than practical.

[Johnny Z]

I seen a total noob do great with a dual AC 20 Jager today. Really no kidding he had no clue but wasn't to bad either. He did great. Got something like 4 totally legit victories in the match.

I do great with my Ac20 Centurian.

Even manage to do ok with my 3 x Streak 2 and a medium laser commando.

My Orion manages to hold its own with 3 LL and an Ac 10.

Lrm's are really weak for the most part though. Have had trouble making those work.


But like the topics point, Lasers are still the go to for solid performance. Is that the way it should be? Why not?

Maybe if some of the weaker weapons get some love it will all balance out awesome. Its not to bad now that's for sure. Now is when they really should be taking tiny steps to perfect an excellent balancing job on the toughest game to balance ever.

In all seriousness, MechWarrior Online isn't pay to win, has nearly balanced every mech and weapon. They deserve a lot of credit.

Issues remaining:

Clan streaks OP.
Gauss 3 stage firing mechanic sucks.
LRM, NARC and AMS weak.
IS XL insta blow is lame.

Most likely missing something but those are what I can think of at the moment.

I forgot to mention the grind is minimul to have a competitive mech of the players choice and be able to play in any match with a fair chance. With all the grind fest games out there MechWarrior Online and PGI deserve tons of credit for not wasting players time. This point can have another page added to it relating to F2p games and less grind for more money, greed, etc.

Edited by Johnny Z, 02 February 2016 - 04:27 PM.

[axe64]

all weapons in the game are effective minus the flamer

mechs can ballistic boat with great effectiveness they can laser boat some can even srm boat or streak boat hell even lrm boats can be useful in the right team comp

what is dependent most on how effective your boat will be is what type of mech you are playing and its hard point placement and some mechs are just gonna be ****

i have a streak boat timber wolf
my mauler has 6 auto cannons on it
my banshee has a **** ton of lasers
i have a dire with 4 uac 5
i have a marauder, warhammer, battle master, stalker, and highlander IIc all with lrms as the main weapons
and i have many different mechs with varying set up like these i listed i do well in all of them
the only thing i do **** in is just regular srms but i seen people use them to great effectiveness

[Trauglodyte]

2 possible ways to fix it: shorten lasers max range to 1.5x and make it so that lasers ramp up over the duration of the burn while increasing the burn time. Lasers are the easiest weapons in the game to use and the lightest weapons to use. So, why do we continue to reward them for that?

[Lightfoot]

Tyler Valentine, on 02 February 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

Instead of playing a 'fun' build once a night, try running it for a week straight.

You'll find that the meta is overrated and that, with practice, you can do almost as well or just as well in 'mechs with ACs, PPCs, and missiles (maybe even a Timber with 3 ERPPCs and 3 Flamers if you're really patient).

Breaking the meta is about how much effort you're willing to put in (ask cdlord). I'm moving up steadily in Tiers (exp bar??? ) and I honestly run LASER vomit, outside of CW, about 20% of the time.

I don't run laser-boats because I got bored with it. Every build I use is multiple/weapon/range build. I don't play the meta, but sometimes what I do becomes the meta later on. Then they nerf it.

And previous MechWarrior games had lots of laser counter-weapons. Gauss Rifles, ERPPCs, LB20X at medium range, SSRMs that were actually missiles, and much more. MWO doesn't have that because all you need to do is boat lasers and you will have a winning mech no matter what map and if any weapon can beat lasers it is nerfed like MWO's PPC's, AC20's, LB-20X, SSRMs, and of course Gauss Rifles. You remember all those nerfs right? Well, they gave us the current laser-vomit beats all balance.

Before those nerfs you had a game that resembled MechWarrior where each weapon could be great in the right conditions. That would be before June 2013 so maybe some never saw that game.

[Davegt27]

The rate of fire for my CUAC2 is so slow I just laugh

I keep my dakka TW build around so I can just stare at it in the Mech lab and cry in my cornflakes

Man that thing used to rip mechs apart

When PGI says they are going to buff something (like MASC) I just say please don’t you will just screw it up