9 replies to this topic

[Jerry Beard]

I just need to ask a question as I am mystified. I am not trying to blast folks but I am truly curious. Why are there groups with such large numbers? What is the point? I mean even in CW you can only drop 12 at a time per group. I could see having 36 members to make 3 12 mans to get more coverage but beyond that why? 400 members?? Yes I am sure not all are still playing but what purpose does it serve? If the active players base is as small as folks say it is then why such large groups? What is the point? To say you are the largest? Would not it be better to have more smaller groups than fewer larger groups? Wouldn't CW be better with more units and hence more folks moving, fighting and having fun?
I have seen posts from large groups saying they want fun in CW and don't want to ghost drop and the like yet they have the majority of the players that are involved. It just does not make sense and I have not seen nor read one good reason as to why they need units that big. I would like to understand it as maybe I am missing something. I run my own unit and will probably put the cap at 36 just because , well at 36 I can imagine running it for one is going to be a pain and 2 36 players seems like more than enough to make playing CW worthwhile and fun.
I am not trying to bash here or say there is anything wrong, I would just like one of the leaders of the huge groups explain to me their logic so I can understand for myself.

Thanks!

[MarineTech]

Since MWO is a world wide game, and since CW runs 24/7 it's advantageous to have players in your Unit from all over the world.

Now compound that with the fact that not everybody plays every day or all the time, and you see that units that have multiple 12 mans for CW or group queue are going to have a much better chance of being able to field a full 12-man when needed.

[Tarogato]

If your unit consists of 12 members, the likelihood of being able to get all 12 members together at the same time for a full group is ... extraordinarily low. Some very close-knit friends-outside-of-game units can get away with low number and log in consistently together, but most units need to have a population of 30, perhaps 40 or more before enough peoples' schedules overlap such that there's enough people ever online to do a full group semi-regularly. To be able to do 12-man drops every night? Most units probably won't get there until they have 80 members or more. After that it's a matter of fielding multiple 12-man drops or having a dichotomy (ie. competitive and casual). A unit with 200 people might be able to field 2-3 groups per night, which ... it's kinda a lot, but that's a pretty good size for a unit so that there's always people online to play with. I'm a part of a 60+ member unit and we almost never have enough people online for a single full group. People flock towards large units because they offer that promise of "there's always going to be somebody online to group up with."

Also, a lot of units don't purge inactives. So sure, maybe a unit has 500 members, but really half of them are inactive - they're either in military, or just taking a break from the game and it would be rude to kick them out. This is the real reason why many units are bloated.

Edited by Tarogato, 03 February 2016 - 10:50 AM.

[Lugh]

MarineTech, on 03 February 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

Since MWO is a world wide game, and since CW runs 24/7 it's advantageous to have players in your Unit from all over the world.

Now compound that with the fact that not everybody plays every day or all the time, and you see that units that have multiple 12 mans for CW or group queue are going to have a much better chance of being able to field a full 12-man when needed.

So essentially take your 36 member needs, and let's assume that your players have lives, (because some of them do) and you get MAYBE 4 hours covered for each of those 36 guys. If you want the same coverage for attack and defense you need to account for 6 more 4 hour blocks (and I'm being generous with 4 hours some folks can only do 2) so 6*36 and you have 216 members needed for round the clock dropping in CW alone.

Now let's add to that, training mechs, training formations, training fire discipline and firing lines etc and you can take 12+ guys out of that rotation on the regular to do that...

So that's all you need to consider BEFORE things like Game burnout, leaves of absence for life [the thing that happens when you are busy making other plans ] and so on....

Edited by Lugh, 03 February 2016 - 10:54 AM.

[NextGame]

Jerry Beard, on 03 February 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

I just need to ask a question as I am mystified. I am not trying to blast folks but I am truly curious. Why are there groups with such large numbers? What is the point? I mean even in CW you can only drop 12 at a time per group. I could see having 36 members to make 3 12 mans to get more coverage but beyond that why? 400 members?? Yes I am sure not all are still playing but what purpose does it serve? If the active players base is as small as folks say it is then why such large groups? What is the point? To say you are the largest? Would not it be better to have more smaller groups than fewer larger groups? Wouldn't CW be better with more units and hence more folks moving, fighting and having fun?
I have seen posts from large groups saying they want fun in CW and don't want to ghost drop and the like yet they have the majority of the players that are involved. It just does not make sense and I have not seen nor read one good reason as to why they need units that big. I would like to understand it as maybe I am missing something. I run my own unit and will probably put the cap at 36 just because , well at 36 I can imagine running it for one is going to be a pain and 2 36 players seems like more than enough to make playing CW worthwhile and fun.
I am not trying to bash here or say there is anything wrong, I would just like one of the leaders of the huge groups explain to me their logic so I can understand for myself.

Thanks!

In mercstars case, they are a superunit consisting of multiple other units. I don't know if they still consider themselves as separate units within mercstar or if they see ms as being their primary game identity, I only know what the score was when they were setting up as the unit im in thought about it but elected to continue down it's own path. There are, I believe, a couple of other units of similar size.

The reasoning for having a big unit (if you are into cw) is that units with large numbers of active players will be capable of dominating the map through having multiple teams dropping and winning on a planet and therefore tagging it. Makes sense logistically, however it's blatantly painfully when cw doesn't have the population to function with even a single significantly sized active unit. Hell, cw can't barely handle a single competent 12 man dropping over and over without most planets getting tagged and the unwashed casuals getting upset.

The solution is to give players good reasons to make cw their primary game mode. Lots of time waiting to drop isn't a good reason, and therefore cw defeats itself.

Edit - any wierd wording due to my tablets spell check

Edited by NextGame, 03 February 2016 - 11:18 AM.

[Jerry Beard]

Well gents thanks for the replies I truly appreciate the info and all. I do agree that having a big unit might be advantageous but my God it must be a ginormous pain in the butt to run...

[Darwins Dog]

I don't really know the size spread of units in the game, but I think that the Golden Foxes are on the small side of a big unit with ~160 members. One of the main reasons for our size is because we don't really turn people away. Anyone who is friendly, fun-loving, and willing to work with a team is welcome.

We're casual, so we have a lot of members who only play once or twice a month, while others are on every day. On our very best nights we see about 40 payers at the same time. This lets us cater to lots of different desires. A member can have the choice of playing CW, doing quick play matches, or just hanging out and chatting.

One of the biggest advantages to our size is that we can do lots of in-house matches and tournaments. We are nearing the end of a map based campaign with three different teams fighting to control territory.

As for running such a unit, yes, it can be a huge pain, but really worth the effort. We have our CO who manages the paperwork side of things and our XO is our main field commander. Members are divided up into three battalions (each with a battalion officer) with three companies each (led by a company commander). The divisions are really just for promotions and bookkeeping. We all play together regardless of division (unless one company wants to challenge another). The trick is division of labor. There's no way one person can run it all (unless they don't have a job/family to think about), but with about a 1:10 ratio of officers to enlisted it's not bad at all.

[Dimento Graven]

Again, this is no big deal, nothing to see here... Move along...

Actually it's beginning to feel like:

Edited by Dimento Graven, 03 February 2016 - 12:52 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Shameless self-plug.

[Fanatic]

and here some official stats for you from the tukkayid 2 event "Participating Members" and "%of unit that participated"

http://mwomercs.com/...d-stats-part-2/ or/better https://docs.google....#gid=1956695009