28 replies to this topic

[Rushin Roulette]

Metus regem, on 04 February 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

Blackjacks that could tank damage like an Atlas

This is the funniest thing about clanners complaining about IS quirks... yes the structure quirks were about double what they should have been (22 on a side torso should be toned down to 11 for example or even better make that 11 more armour points). But in the end, those 22 damage more it can soak up before being destroyed is 3 ERML shots. After that every single shot goes strainght to the squishy medium mech inside. That is far from "tanking damage like an Atlas".

If a team has trouble taking down a medium mech with 3 ERML more structure... then it may really be down to the team not playing well and spraying damage across not only one mech but multiple targets at once (or in some cases probably not shooting at all due to running around away from that incomming fire).

End of the day. Yes the quirks were too strong in some cases and needed focused reductions (ERML builds for another example) but at the end of the day, taking them away will not have the effect PUGs wish them to have.

Teamwork will always triumph over pubbies playing mech Pr0nstars instead of organising theselves and/or actually following someone who is willing to organise a PUG team (no matter if CW or quick play).

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 04 February 2016 - 07:09 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Ordin Hall, on 04 February 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Give me one reason why quirks are inherently bad.

Metus regem, on 04 February 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

ERPPC Thunderbolts
Blackjacks that could tank damage like an Atlas

That's two I can think of right off the top of my head....

One, two, or even a dozen over-quirk conditions out of thousands of quirks is not enough reason to condemn an entire system, it is a reason to reevaluate a poorly done quirk.

So no, quirks in general aren't inherently bad, they serve a purpose and in most cases do it well. There is just the occasional OP quirk that needs to be toned down (and I'm sure many more that need to be buffed that never get any attention).

[thehiddenedge]

Screech, on 04 February 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

They never address the underlying problem, they just apply a band-aid. I could go on but you only asked for one reason.

This about sums it up.

I mean yeah, I can understand one mech being slightly more agile than another. Those quirks (faster turn rate, quicker twist speed) make sense, but when you start saying that a weapon gets 100m more range or that it cycles faster solely due to the fact that it is on a certain chassis, it gets a little silly.

Now if we were running stock only, and we actually considered lore, then yes I could see a certain brand name of laser getting more range or a ppc running cooler, but once you get into full customization it's impossible to try to balance that out. That's why in TT all weapons of a type(AC10, PPC) have the same stats, for simplicity. You start tossing out quirks left and right and when it comes time to rebalance weapons across the the board, you're then forced to take each individual chassis into consideration.

..and let's face it, weapons DO need a rebalance

[Brienne]

Rushin Roulette, on 04 February 2016 - 05:40 AM, said:

The Lolcust is now going to have an effective range of 121m down from 137,5m which means a loss of 16,5 meters. Max range (which is a laughable 0,1 damage) is dropping from 275m to 242m netting a loss of tickle distance of 33 meters.

Yes, I did the maths too. At first, no big deal. -15% of very few give small numbers ofc.
As you may know, LCT (LoLcust, as you say) gameplay is not about running all the time. You got to hide, to sneak. With less range, you may have to go in the open instead of hiding a bit. Playing a 1E SPL is a dangerous CQC game. You fail, you re dead. And PGI will make it even more difficult ?
Guess why PGI gave +25% range to 1E and it sounds fair to many players ?

Any options ?
Switching weapons ? LCT is so tiny there s no many choices. ML ? Hot. Badly hurt DPS (and LCT is not an issue!) Let's go JNR then and bury LCT.
Ballistic ? Are you serious ?
LRM ? Hehe.


PGI wants to get rid of those 3ERLL Cicada shooting from other galaxy, and it ends up with a nerf to LCT who doesn't desserve that.

Edited by Brienne, 04 February 2016 - 07:51 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

thehiddenedge, on 04 February 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

This about sums it up.

I mean yeah, I can understand one mech being slightly more agile than another. Those quirks (faster turn rate, quicker twist speed) make sense, but when you start saying that a weapon gets 100m more range or that it cycles faster solely due to the fact that it is on a certain chassis, it gets a little silly.

Now if we were running stock only, and we actually considered lore, then yes I could see a certain brand name of laser getting more range or a ppc running cooler, but once you get into full customization it's impossible to try to balance that out. That's why in TT all weapons of a type(AC10, PPC) have the same stats, for simplicity. You start tossing out quirks left and right and when it comes time to rebalance weapons across the the board, you're then forced to take each individual chassis into consideration.

..and let's face it, weapons DO need a rebalance

Weapon balancing is important, but there will always be a place for quirks. Mech loadouts dictate quirk bonuses alone. Even if we stay within one family, a Locust 1V or or 3V will never be equal to a 3M or 1E no matter how balanced the weapon systems are. Sometimes they need some quirk help, and a faster cooldown on a 1V energy slot seems reasonable since it only has one energy hardpoint and 4 ballistics that can never mount anything bigger than a MG.

That's just one example, but with hardpoint power creep, the older models especially won't compete with the newer mechs even if weapon systems were perfectly balanced.

There will always be a need for quirks of some type.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the caveat that individual weapons could still exceed that 10%, but its just not a blanket "ALL" energy weapons have a 10%+ boost.

So the one Locust with the single energy hardpoint could still receive a heft ERLL/LL range boost. But it won't be listed as a Energy Weapon Range + boost, but just for those weapons.

Or Quickdraws could have a ML range boost greater than 10%, but just limited to ML instead of All Energy Weapons.

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 04 February 2016 - 08:14 AM.

[Mechteric]

The single laser Locust is crap anyway, you should only be using the 5 energy hardpoint locust otherwise you're wasting your time (other than to level them up).

[Metus regem]

MeiSooHaityu, on 04 February 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

One, two, or even a dozen over-quirk conditions out of thousands of quirks is not enough reason to condemn an entire system, it is a reason to reevaluate a poorly done quirk.

So no, quirks in general aren't inherently bad, they serve a purpose and in most cases do it well. There is just the occasional OP quirk that needs to be toned down (and I'm sure many more that need to be buffed that never get any attention).

that's why I pointed out the ones that were somewhat out of hand, for the most part they are balanced, with in the chassis, but sometimes when you start to see one chassis spamed by the majority of the player base, it means that chassis should be looked at, and evaluated.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Metus regem, on 04 February 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

that's why I pointed out the ones that were somewhat out of hand, for the most part they are balanced, with in the chassis, but sometimes when you start to see one chassis spamed by the majority of the player base, it means that chassis should be looked at, and evaluated.

I consider it bad timing for me lol. I already had a single Quickdraw variant back from when I actually bought MC for more than Mechbays (I was younger and stupider) and then they went on sale for C-bills so I've been leveling them. I admit I do have one quad ERLL variant, but I run the other two as brawlers and enjoy that much more.