59 replies to this topic

[Dawnstealer]

So we're now a little over a week out from the Rifleman landing. The Rifleman, while iconic, was the older, lighter version of the Jagermech. While I'm sure the hitboxes will be good, like most of the new mechs, I'm betting people will have more success building it as a heavier Blackjack than a lighter Jagermech.

How do I mean?

The BJ leans more towards energy-primary weapons and small ballistics. The Jag is known for mounting 3 UAC5s, 2 Gauss, or 2 AC20s. The Rifleman won't be able to run this, so your better bet is to lean towards energy weapons and smaller ballistics.

Could be totally wrong, but that's what I'm seeing for this mech.

Also hoping it has 360 degree torso-spin like lore.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 04 February 2016 - 11:16 AM.

[JunkyardJack]

Dawnstealer, on 04 February 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

Also hoping it has 360 degree torso-spin like lore.

Man, that would be sick.

[Exard3k]

I've been playing with mechlab in the last days to get some builds for the Rifleman. We don't know the Quirks yet, so I can only assume they fit to the stock equipment. I also hope that Legend Killer and/or 3N has UAC Quirks as dual UAC5 builds have some spare tonnage left for energy while dual AC10 is really only dual AC10 with some medium lasers and low speed.

Rifleman only has 290 max engine, so it'll be the slowest 60 ton mech around (similar to the blackjack). I won't stick to the stock 240 engines particularly because I don't want to drive a 60t mech with 65km/h, I have heavier mechs that are faster than that . I maybe buy 1-2 XL 290 in advance, 85km/h after speed tweak sounds more reasonable for this mech.


About Black Jack .....the 5D really will be the big brother of the BJ-3 and can otherwise serve as the laser vomit variant. Even the side torso laser slots seem to be very high and not as useless as the Blackjacks torso lasers when it comes to peek over a hill.

Rifleman is unique because of high mounted laser+ballistics while having the option to fit any combination of ballistics (e.g. dual AC10) as well as having upper arm actuators. Firebrand is the only mech I know of that can do this.

In the end the builds will be heavily influenced by the quirks. Does the 5D get PPC or ER-PPC quirks? Pumpgun or UAC5 jam quirks for 3N/LK? Ammo quirks that were mentioned in town hall?

I'd like to run dual UAC5+LL/LPL on 3N or dual PPC+6x Mediums on 5D. With decent Quirks I may also have fun with LK and LL+LBX combo

Can't wait for Feb 16th.



P.S.: 360° yaw angle? **** YEAH!

Edited by Exard3k, 04 February 2016 - 10:13 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

I could see a dual AC10 being effective in specific situations, but yeah - I think where the BJ runs dual AC2s, this will run Dual AC5s (or UAC5s). People that try to run heavier weapons will probably have a bad time.

And the engine's capped at 290? Damn - missed that. Yeah, these guys will be pretty slow, if that's the case. It'll still move at 84kph with Speed Tweak, though, so that's not tooooooo bad. I think this guy will be a longer-range support mech, so hill-hump and poke at the enemy as opposed to the Jag which just wrecks faces.

With that in mind, you might even be able to run an XL in it, but I won't be.

[thehiddenedge]

Dawnstealer, on 04 February 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

Also hoping it has 360 degree torso-spin like lore.

I don't remember it having 360 degree twist. I remember it being able to flip it's arms over it's head and shooting backwards due to it being an anti air platform.

Though since that's impossible to implement without rear view cameras, 360 twist would be an amazing way to compensate. PLZ PLZ PLZ


I think the best builds are going to be somewhat stock dual AC/UAC5's and large lasers in the arms. It looks pretty XL safe too with those big shield arms and I'm guessing being more geared towards long range quirk wise.

[Dawnstealer]

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath for the 360 torso twist, but it would be a fun feature for what, beyond pure nostalgia, will be a pretty pedestrian mech. Especially hitting the same tonnage as the currently-top-tier QDR? Yeah, it'll need something.

Those high hardpoints, tho...

[Exard3k]

thehiddenedge, on 04 February 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

I think the best builds are going to be somewhat stock dual AC/UAC5's and large lasers in the arms. It looks pretty XL safe too with those big shield arms and I'm guessing being more geared towards long range quirk wise.

The picture in the store shows the 5D (has PPCs equipped) which only has energy slots in the CT and no hardpoints in side torso, so the cockpit area as well as the area around the laser would be the CT. Side torsos seem very small in that picture especially if you count in the empty space between the side torsos and the legs (like the centurion where you can actually miss your shots by aiming too low) and the side profile where really only the CT is exposed (and the arms are covering the side torsos in almost every angle except for rear), XL should be a good option.

Edited by Exard3k, 05 February 2016 - 12:30 AM.

[Frank Burns]

give it bj-1 absurd balistic quarks and run 4 ac2.
load 1k ammo and spam pleb for days

[thehiddenedge]

Exard3k, on 05 February 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

The picture in the store shows the 5D (has PPCs equipped) which only has energy slots in the CT and no hardpoints in side torso, so the cockpit area as well as the area around the laser would be the CT. Side torsos seem very small in that picture especially if you count in the empty space between the side torsos and the legs (like the centurion where you can actually miss your shots by aiming too low) and the side profile where really only the CT is exposed (and the arms are covering the side torsos in almost every angle except for rear), XL should be a good option.

Yeah, I completely agree with you. It's just such a shame that your arms are going to be so great at shielding and taking all the damage except in straight on shots because most of your firepower is going to be in those arms. I mean you can always use the torso mounts, but I bet it's going to have terrible pitch.

[Exard3k]

thehiddenedge, on 05 February 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

Yeah, I completely agree with you. It's just such a shame that your arms are going to be so great at shielding and taking all the damage except in straight on shots because most of your firepower is going to be in those arms. I mean you can always use the torso mounts, but I bet it's going to have terrible pitch.

The 3N and 3C both have 4 energy hardpoints in their side torsos. You might as well put all your tonnage (e.g. dual ppc+ dual LL/LPL) into it and just take your arms as a shield. That is without XL engine of course.

[Wildstreak]

The only Triple/Quad Ballistic one is the 3C not counting the Hero, the 1N is like a lighter Firebrand/heavier Blackjack-1DC, the 5D is heavier Blackjack-1X and the only one that could zombie with a STD.

[Dawnstealer]

Wildstreak, on 05 February 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

The only Triple/Quad Ballistic one is the 3C not counting the Hero, the 1N is like a lighter Firebrand/heavier Blackjack-1DC, the 5D is heavier Blackjack-1X and the only one that could zombie with a STD.

I think that might be the Rifleman's big advantage: it'll be like a BJ that has the room and tonnage to run a STD. I just see it as being real squishy with an XL.

[stealthraccoon]

Dawnstealer, on 04 February 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

Also hoping it has 360 degree torso-spin like lore.

I had no intention of buying this mech until you said this.



If it gets them Urbie hips, I'm game.

[Windscape]

blackjacks have always been to small for me, the Jager is my favorite mech but everyone always shoots it side torsos (you have to run XL to use most Jager builds effectively). The rifleman is my 1st mechpack, and I hope it has the good points of a jager and blackjack (no big st's pls )

I was thinking about running the 3n like my firebrand dream-build, 2 UAC5 & 6sml pulse
and the laserboat one i could run 8 med pulse, or run it like a mini grasshopper ( \thinking about various wubz)
the 3c seems like a mini JM6-S, whicj is my least favorite Jager, i don't really have any ideas for that one.

[Exard3k]

Windscape, on 06 February 2016 - 11:35 PM, said:

blackjacks have always been to small for me, the Jager is my favorite mech but everyone always shoots it side torsos (you have to run XL to use most Jager builds effectively). The rifleman is my 1st mechpack, and I hope it has the good points of a jager and blackjack (no big st's pls )

3C is my least favorite too. But maybe it gets interesting Quirks to make it any better. I may just sell it immediately and do my 3x elite with 3N+5D+LK.
With the exposed arms you probably lose your arms quite often but they also protect your side torso.

Rifleman is my first mech pack too. I love Blackjacks no matter how much they nerf them Rifleman hopefully will be the big blackjack. I dont own any Jagers yet...but my next 3 mechs will be Jagers.

Edited by Exard3k, 07 February 2016 - 03:47 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

I'm not sure the Rifleman will be making my CW Drop-Deck (at least not long-term: CW is a great way to grind mechs quickly), but I could see it being a fun niche-mech.

[Raso]

So the size comparison video didn't do much to sell me on the Rifleman. It's weapons and cockpit are lower than the Jagermech's, it's roughly as tall and wide as the Jagermech and even it's arm mounted weapons seem lower than the cockpit. Maybe the quicks will sell me but for now I'm not sold.

[Dawnstealer]

It's less the size and more the location of the hardpoints: the Rifleman has hardpoints that are about even with the cockpit, so much like the Stalker and Jag, if you can see it, you can shoot it. That's pretty useful.

Given the side-view, this thing might suffer from Stalker/Marauder syndrome, where the thick side profile means you'll have to face your enemy more often than not. The big-*** arms also look like good shields, but that'll probably necessitate running your "BIG GUNS" in the torsos.

[Exard3k]

Jäger has its torso mounts very low and Rifleman has torso slots around the level of the cockpit but lower arm hardpoints are below the cockpit. I'd say it's a draw. You have to peek a liiiiitle further after you have line of sight, but then you can also fire all your torso mounts as well where the Jäger has to expose pretty much the whole torso.

But I have a bad feeling about arm longevity and therefore losing your main weapons. Armor Quirks PLS!

But one thing will happen next week: Loooooooots of Dakka! And that's why I bought the Rifleman

Edited by Exard3k, 12 February 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[Raso]

Dawnstealer, on 12 February 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

It's less the size and more the location of the hardpoints: the Rifleman has hardpoints that are about even with the cockpit, so much like the Stalker and Jag, if you can see it, you can shoot it. That's pretty useful.

Given the side-view, this thing might suffer from Stalker/Marauder syndrome, where the thick side profile means you'll have to face your enemy more often than not. The big-*** arms also look like good shields, but that'll probably necessitate running your "BIG GUNS" in the torsos.

My concern is how far you have to expose yourself before returning fire. The mech has a bit of usless geometry above it's head. Maybe if that radar actually did something it would be cool.

Idk I think thia game as taught me to be too be hyper critical of anything aesthetically pleasing but otherwise unnecessary.