44 replies to this topic

[Xavier]

Here is the third -MS- Roundtabel discussion with NKVA Scoops Kerensky as our guest.

[Sader325]

Thanks for participating in the discussion NKVA.

[Sandpit]

There was some discussion at the end about running CW as seasons that I think has a lot of potential to solve most if not all of the issues with CW. I'd like to see that area expanded upon.

[Ihasa]

I like how Scoops comes off in the round table, very much not the portrayal of the image the unit puts out as a whole. Paints a great picture for NKVA. Good round table!

[pbiggz]

Singleplayer would solve alot of issues with this game. Gives new players a place to learn everything about the game, mechlab, gunnery, piloting, etc.

[Khereg]

Good talk. Would talk again.

[Havyek]

pbiggz, on 06 February 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

Singleplayer would solve alot of issues with this game. Gives new players a place to learn everything about the game, mechlab, gunnery, piloting, etc.

The problem with single player is that PGI would then need to develop some type of AI to enable enemies to target, move (without getting stuck) and fire at weak components, and that takes time to do. . .

Now that I think about it we also need players who can target, move (without getting stuck) and fire at weak components.

[Prussian Havoc]

Excellent discussion.

I especially liked the focus on constructive suggestions to improve Community Warfare, streamline the "buckets" and maximize gameplay opportunities.

A very valuable Community Service!

Kudos to both -MS- and NKVA.

[crustydog]

Thanks for the upload guys - Good stuff here:)

[Tarogato]

Ihasa, on 06 February 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

I like how Scoops comes off in the round table, very much not the portrayal of the image the unit puts out as a whole. Paints a great picture for NKVA. Good round table!

Agreed. I have a lot more respect for NKVA after listening through this whole thing, it was really enlightening. And here I thought NKVA was just a bunch of goons that came around to troll the community from time to time and actually happened to be good at it.

[Sandpit]

Tarogato, on 07 February 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

Agreed. I have a lot more respect for NKVA after listening through this whole thing, it was really enlightening. And here I thought NKVA was just a bunch of goons that came around to troll the community from time to time and actually happened to be good at it.

That's because the company PGI, does nothing BUT scapegoat groups and units and any player that does more than just hit quickplay as a solo player.

The horribly misinformed opinion of what most units and groups are is the single worst thing about this community. It always has been. It's been very real and very tangible since OB.

If you dared play in a group and use TS you were painted as some horrid beast of destruction and scapegoated for roflstomps. Now it's just "units". PGI encourages this kind of representation as well when they go on social media and actively state it's because "big units" that CW is a ghost town. It's awfully nifty how every time major issues with the game and matchmaking and such some up it's always players who get scapegoated for it.

Here's a novel idea. How about actually organize your forums a bit. Pay attention to the ideas and suggestions being offered up within your community instead of treating it like some cesspool. Have a bit more dialogue with your community and listen to why they really aren't playing things like CW. Implement some of the things players are telling you they want to see. Stop blaming players, groups, premades, units, teamwork, and every other player blame you've placed and acknowledge that most of the issues you're facing were pointed out to you years ago, and dozens if not hundreds of solutions were offered up.

You actively have a community here on the forums if you'd bother to use it and encourage it instead of letting it continue to be perceived as a troll-riddled echo chamber with nothing constructive to offer. Wrangle in the countless duplicate threads. Help keep constructive ones on the front page by locking the endless troll threads that just keep up top because they're clickbait flame wars.

[Ihasa]

Sandpit, on 07 February 2016 - 05:45 PM, said:

That's because the company PGI, does nothing BUT scapegoat groups and units and any player that does more than just hit quickplay as a solo player.

The horribly misinformed opinion of what most units and groups are is the single worst thing about this community. It always has been. It's been very real and very tangible since OB.

If you dared play in a group and use TS you were painted as some horrid beast of destruction and scapegoated for roflstomps. Now it's just "units". PGI encourages this kind of representation as well when they go on social media and actively state it's because "big units" that CW is a ghost town. It's awfully nifty how every time major issues with the game and matchmaking and such some up it's always players who get scapegoated for it.

Here's a novel idea. How about actually organize your forums a bit. Pay attention to the ideas and suggestions being offered up within your community instead of treating it like some cesspool. Have a bit more dialogue with your community and listen to why they really aren't playing things like CW. Implement some of the things players are telling you they want to see. Stop blaming players, groups, premades, units, teamwork, and every other player blame you've placed and acknowledge that most of the issues you're facing were pointed out to you years ago, and dozens if not hundreds of solutions were offered up.

You actively have a community here on the forums if you'd bother to use it and encourage it instead of letting it continue to be perceived as a troll-riddled echo chamber with nothing constructive to offer. Wrangle in the countless duplicate threads. Help keep constructive ones on the front page by locking the endless troll threads that just keep up top because they're clickbait flame wars.

I don't follow this at all Sandpit. We're talking about the reputation NKVA made for themselves, not the one PGI gave them and every other unit. I know you play CW, you have to have heard of them. They've made themselves more infamous than WoL with their often hilarious shenanigans, but just as often outright offensiveness to some as well. The difference here is that they back that up with their high level play. It's not uncommon for NKVA to give other units fits (never mind the skittles teams), both in skill and in trolling capacity.

Tarogato knows this full well as a member of the FRR's Isengrim, and astute community members will remember they came in 2nd place for Kurita in the Hard Core Unit challenge. There being only like 30 of them, that's some good play.

This Round Table with Scoops paints a different picture of NKVA other than the petulant children people label them to be. And that's a good thing.

[Scoops Kerensky]

https://www.reddit.c...kayyid_winning/

Don't forget we are the #1 IS unit from Tukayyid in skill and modesty

[Sandpit]

Ihasa, on 07 February 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

I don't follow this at all Sandpit. We're talking about the reputation NKVA made for themselves, not the one PGI gave them and every other unit. I know you play CW, you have to have heard of them. They've made themselves more infamous than WoL with their often hilarious shenanigans, but just as often outright offensiveness to some as well. The difference here is that they back that up with their high level play. It's not uncommon for NKVA to give other units fits (never mind the skittles teams), both in skill and in trolling capacity.

Tarogato knows this full well as a member of the FRR's Isengrim, and astute community members will remember they came in 2nd place for Kurita in the Hard Core Unit challenge. There being only like 30 of them, that's some good play.

This Round Table with Scoops paints a different picture of NKVA other than the petulant children people label them to be. And that's a good thing.

What I'm saying is, PGI (Russ directly on twitter), do nothing but help encourage that type of image as being the norm when it isn't. It's a misconception that many here on the forums like to misrepresent and it hurts the community overall. It's deeply ingrained in the community and it's been pushed by PGI to help scapegoat issues in the game.

Most honest to goodness "units" are nothing more than some online friends playing together. They're also usually actively involved in all sorts of areas in the community, dedicated, donate, and otherwise implement huge free advertising for PGI through maintaining free public websites, teamspeaks, and other social media simply through recruiting for themselves.

Big units, even knucklehead units like LoW, MS, NKVA, do what they do for a reason usually. That reason USUALLY amounts to some very serious issues with PGI's coding, mechanics, etc. that PGI completely ignores the community about. I cuss them just as much as anyone else when they pull their "shennanigans" but just about everything they do is the only reason we get PGI to even LOOK at certain issues within the game.

This latest round of "Community vs. PGI" is more about Russ" has come about because of his personal epeen swinging contest with MS. I get it, he's mad they did something. That's fine, but "punishing" "big units" by doing things like segregating queues, solves none of the issues being discussed in these round tables.

This format of discussion is a great platform within the community. We've already started reshaping the entire "political" philosophies in some of the bigger loyalist factions in IS. We know what our players are complaining about when it comes to CW and why they don't play. We hear the new players in our faction chat and see what they're actually complaining about. All of that feedback that we personally get is where most of these community generated ideas come from and why some of us have so much faith in them "fixing" things like CW.

But PGI has to stop scapegoating players, start tending to their community a bit more, and we as a community need to keep threads like this constructive, on top of the front page, open, and continuing. These roundtables are simply players having discussions about the game. Giving those active in the community a bigger platform to help generate ideas. Twitter is not feedback, it's 140 characters of trying to discuss complex issues when it comes to things like CW.

[Lionsroar]

Please, Please, Please, if you do this again, no background music. At times it almost drowns out the convo.

[Tasker]

There are a lot of good ways to improve community warfare that will never be implemented because of the MVP approach to game design that PGI has decided to apply to CW.

Also, NKVA is not a big unit. We have around 40 members.

Edited by Tasker, 07 February 2016 - 08:04 PM.

[Xavier]

Ok good suggestion lion....I started my music for the intro and meant to kill it for the interview but forgot to.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[ccrider]

Great conversation but man, that running Pikachu is now burned into my skull FOREVER.

[Sandpit]

Tasker, on 07 February 2016 - 08:03 PM, said:

There are a lot of good ways to improve community warfare that will never be implemented because of the MVP approach to game design that PGI has decided to apply to CW.

Also, NKVA is not a big unit. We have around 40 members.

That's one of the reasons some units from davion, liao, marik, and apparently steiner now to set up some times and places to have some fun and get some live drops. We stopped relying on PGI to improve the community and started doing it ourselves.

Two things really need to happen for CW to be a success.

1. Huge units like MS have to acknowledge and work with smaller units and faction based loyalist units. I know several MS players personally. I know a few that used to drop with me and a few others back in the "old days" because they started off in Marik. They aren't dbags. They aren't dbags in general. They do, however, let their weight get pushed around a little too much and need to self-police themselves a bit more. When you "big guys" do something drastic, the resulting pissing contests that PGI insists on engaging in wind up not hurting you guys much, but really being much more harshly felt by much smaller units. What you can survive in terms of losses of players due to boredom and such in CW, smaller units don't. That's not good for the community overall. If the leaderships truly are doing this just to point out flaws to PGI for the "betterment" of CW, then control your units and keep it held in check enough to not ruin the experience as a whole across the board for the entire "season" or whatever. All you're really doing is decimating the smaller unit community. The guys I know in MS wouldn't agree to that and would agree with a lot of the things I've said. SO reign in your units a bit, you can make your points to PGI, with a lot more support most times, without destroying the entire game across the entire community. You claim to want to help the community, well start doing it.

2. Players in the community need to start having more serious discussions and idea generation than what currently passes for "hot" topics on the front page. So many good constructive discussions get buried under the latest "jerry springer" thread that does nothing but make good constructive discussions to be had. The people here, on the forums, have to take a little ownership as well. If you want to be an active member of the community then participate in a constructive manner. Constructive criticism does not equate to "CW sucks". Be a bit more detailed in your feedback and open to ideas on how to improve it (keeping in mind that a lot of times, it honestly comes down to just the individual pilot being able to take a little constructive criticism), and explain what would improve it for you. I promise if others like your idea they'll chime in. So will those that don't. That's the whole point of discussion. There's no "perfect" solution for anything in MWO, least of all CW. There are solutions that offer better experiences in CW than what we've had to this point and part of that comes from the community itself.


That's why these types of roundtable discussions need to become a little more common and often. If you're on the forums, then be a member of the community. Snark, cynicism, apathy, etc. all have a place and time, they can also often times be presented in a constructive manner. There shouldn't be personal attacks, there should be discussion about ideas. There should be discussions in the faction sections of forums to help organize a better CW experience. Help each other recruit and build some relationships. Help each other keep "renegade" griefer units in check. Don't let troll units dictate the map as best we can. Help be nice to new players on opposing teams. Remember how you treat new players on the opposing team is how others should be treating new players in your faction in matches as well.

If you're a unit "leader" then be active on here. Be a unit leader. Participate and encourage the conversations between the factions and organizing the community a bit. PGI is never going to be able to code anything that will "fix" CW because it's not really broken in the first place. If you want to be a unit leader, then lead and help on the forums here. Help those that a retrying to organize and communicate. Help set up some of the cross-faction units I've seen setting up new player areas on the TS servers.

[50 50]

Nice one guys.
I need to listen to it again to get all the points as I only had a few moments last night and for some reason started listening half way through.

There was a point made towards the end about the purpose of CW which got me thinking and I'd like to add this idea to the thought process about the value of the planets. I have not had a lot of time to mull over this idea and think through the ins and outs but I wanted to put up a post quickly about it to try and evaluate the concept.

It has been suggested before about having some planets contain factories that produce a mech commonly found with that faction.
The idea usually reads along the lines of providing players a discount if their faction controls that planet.
However, this strikes me as being a temporary incentive as once you own the mech variants, do you have the same desire to hold that planet?
However, what if controlling the planet and the factory determined if you could add that mech to your drop deck?
The additional part of this question is what if you already have the mech in your drop deck.
But perhaps there should be a level of attrition with the mechs when we look at CW.
That is to say, if the mech is destroyed in a match, it is marked as destroyed in the CW side of the game and you have to take it out of your drop deck, unless the factory is controlled by your faction and then it is ok, or can be repaired.

This does create a question on the clan side about where their factories are and how to handle that and what it would mean to an IS faction should they control the planet.
The simple solution here is to let the clans have planets that can have shipping ports instead. They can't get supplies to repair their mechs unless they hold a planet that can receive the shipments. Same mechanic... different terminology.

The last thought I had was treating these factories and ports as planet upgrades that a unit can add to a planet they control.
This is in line with the point raised about allowing units to do something with the planets, something that adds value that they will want to protect.
It could be a simple planet upgrade, or it could have a bit more depth requiring the acquisition of the mech schematics first.
Perhaps these could be bought, or, perhaps they need to be obtained by capturing or raiding a planet that can already produce the mech.

Anyway, it was a bit of a brain wave late at night and I hadn't been over all the details but it seemed like an interesting way to handle several different features that might achieve those goals.

Does that seem feasible?