68 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

MWO is a shell of the game it was in early 2013 due to over-nerfing. That's why all that's left is laser-vomit.

[Y E O N N E]

The largest AC/20 round is 203 mm, or 8 inches.

All standard AC ammo is HEAP, meant to burrow and explode to shear away the ablative armor.

[Carl Vickers]

In WW2 the Germans started with short barreled tank guns but after seeing how the t-34 performed they changed to long barreled guns.

Why, because they found they got better armor penetration and a higher muzzle velocity from a longer barrel.

I have noticed that the AC20 has an extremely short barrel which would mean penetration is down and velocity is down as well.

But seeing as we all know this game is not actually rooted in physics we shouldn't try to use physics to justify why or why not things happen.

Me personally, to change the meta I would make the optimal range for lasers the max range.
If I wanted to root it in physics, my explanation would be focusing for the laser. TBH in some of the maps we play like caustic, lasers would be practically useless due to particulate matter in the air.

[Y E O N N E]

The barrel length is how you get the velocity, but if the velocity is up even with a short barrel then it doesn't matter.

Basically, never mind the barrel, look at the actual number.

That said, 650 m/s is pretty damn slow for an 8-inch; it should be closer to 850 m/s. It could be a truncated charge versus what you would find in a Naval application, though. Remember, the rounds are loaded into multi-round cassettes that are what actually count when you are tracking remaining ammo (even if MWO ACs don't operate that way).

[Khobai]

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An AC20 shell exits the muzzle at 650 m/s. You're telling me that in less than half a second of flight the shell would have slowed enough to be completely harmless? Do they stick a goddamn drogue chute on the back of these things?

Yes. that is what im telling you. Because that is what battletech rules say. AC/20s dont do damage past 270m.

Might be drogue chutes. Might be space magic. But they harmlessly bounce off after 270m.

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Also, where does it say AC20 shells are kinetic energy penetrators? A kinetic energy penetrator with a lower muzzle velocity than the average infantryman's rifle seems pretty dumb.

Of course its a kinetic energy penetrator. Exerting kinetic energy to cause stress damage is the entire principle behind how all guns work. How else are you going to punch through armor? Even explosive shells have to penetrate armor to a certain depth to be effective.

It may seem dumb. But again battletech rules say it doesnt go past 270m. The physics of it might not make sense but its just a game afterall and the rules of a game arnt subject to the laws of physics. You are completely mistaken in thinking that the laws of physics apply at all to battletech or MWO.

In MWO AC/20 shells should not deal damage past 270m. By giving weapons much longer max ranges than theyre supposed to have, PGI has fundamentally changed battletech's weapon balance. Which is exactly why MWO has stupid crap like large pulse lasers outranging LRMs.

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That said, 650 m/s is pretty damn slow for an 8-inch

Yet even at that low speed it would still travel well over 20,000 meters in real life.

But as I said battletech/MWO are not subject to the laws of physics. Trying to apply real world physics to a game system is ridiculous. Because the entire point of a game is that its NOT REAL.

If battletech/MWO says it only goes 270m then it only goes 270m. Thats all you need to know. No further thinking required than that.

Edited by Khobai, 08 February 2016 - 09:05 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 08 February 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

Yet even at that low speed it would still travel well over 20,000 meters in real life.

But as I said battletech/MWO are not subject to the laws of physics. Trying to apply real world physics to a game system is ridiculous. Because the entire point of a game is that its NOT REAL.

Neat opinion you have there.

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If battletech/MWO says it only goes 270m then it only goes 270m. Thats all you need to know. No further thinking required than that.

Another neat opinion...

[Wolfways]

Is there anywhere in any BT books mention of actual weapon ranges being different from the TT game? Like in RP books or something?
Its hard to believe that the TT ranges are actual ranges and not just shortened ranges to facilitate games on TT.

Games Workshop released weapon lists of how 40K weapons would work "IRL" for RP purposes and they were a hell of a lot longer than the TT ranges.

[Khobai]

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Another neat opinion...

Except its not an opinion at all. Its a fact that an ac20 in battletech only does damage out to 270m.

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Its hard to believe that the TT ranges are actual ranges and not just shortened ranges to facilitate games on TT.

Im sure thats the case.

But regardless, MWO is based off the TT game, so it should use the same ranges as the tabletop game.

MWO would be pretty ret arded if you could shell enemy mechs you couldnt even see from 10+ miles away. Reducing weapon ranges to sight range only makes for a much better game.

Edited by Khobai, 08 February 2016 - 10:57 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 08 February 2016 - 10:46 PM, said:

Except its not an opinion at all. Its a fact that an ac20 in battletech only does damage out to 270m.

That wasn't the part that was opinion. Try again!