42 replies to this topic

[Wattila]

Wouldn't put an XL in a brawling crab, but have no problems with longer range builds. Needs to be XL350 to be worth, though.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

As heretical as it is, Atlas is actually a surprisingly good LRM boat. The DDC can run with ECM, triple LRM15, decent ammo supplies.

The thing is when someone tries to run at the LRM boat, which is a tactic lots of people try to do so that they may stop taking damage from the LRMs, they run straight into one of the best brawlers in the game. You still have the AC20 and a few medium lasers and just blow their weakened mech to pieces on arrival.

I actually was trying it out like that on my DDC before the SRM buff and Atlas structure buffs.

[Chados]

My go-to for the group queue, particularly when I'm in a group that skews PSR high, is a Summoner Prime (I) packing a modified basic lore loadout. LB-X 10, 2 tons ammo; ER PPC; LRM10, 1 1/2 tons ammo. Sounds ridiculously weak, amirite?

Well, it's not as bad as advertised. It's agile, mobile, speedy, cool-running, able to jump, and able to work at all ranges. And it's reasonably tanky. Does it wipe it's enemies out in one shot? No. But it does very well screening Dire Wolves, KGCs, or Atlases. It scouts like a boss. It can go one on one with mediums, and since the SMN-P is essentially an oversized medium that makes sense. No one likes getting a PPC to the face, and the LB-X does great for critting open torsos at mid range. When the target tries to hide I can still plink at him with the LRM. It's a jack of all trades and a master of none. The mixed loadout means it's able to cope with all environments, on every map, no matter what gets picked. Terra Therma, Polar Highlands, Mining Colony, Forest Colony, day or night, hot or cold, it doesn't matter and it performs about the same. I like it very much.

[stealthraccoon]

So much blind hate for lurms - heaven forbid someone be prepared to do something other that alpha-strike large lasers from 600m...
If everyone on the team brought a 5 pack of LRM and the forward ranks hit that rarely used 'r' key, the game might just resemble the team sport we all hear about.

[ScarecrowES]

stealthraccoon, on 06 February 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

So much blind hate for lurms - heaven forbid someone be prepared to do something other that alpha-strike large lasers from 600m...
If everyone on the team brought a 5 pack of LRM and the forward ranks hit that rarely used 'r' key, the game might just resemble the team sport we all hear about.

Ultimately, I think the "blind hate" you're seeing is more like experienced dislike. LRMs are rarely a good use of space and weight on a mech. Your practical damage output will vary wildly depending on the utility of the team you're on - but more importantly, your damage to kill ratios with LRMs will be much poorer than with any other weapon type. Worse, many of the folks who mount LRMs will choose sub-optimal configurations for doing good damage or turning damage into kills. You can argue there is a certain value to the physcological effect of sustained incoming fire... this to push enemy mechs to turn tail and seek cover. But from a practical perspective, many players will be equipped to defeat LRMs outright, and many will not be intimidated by receiving a few points of damage.

So yeah, LRMs are worth packing, but rarely as a primary weapon system, and only smartly.

[0rionsbane]

and this is why i feel the dont take lrm crowd is missing out. Lrms are not suppost to be the promary weapon of most mechs (a few get away with it) back it up with a nie punch and you have a easy kill in any match. you soften them and when they charge you you end them you are more balanced so your max alpha is lower but your total damage during that engagment is quite close to a pure brawler as your able to harass the entire time they close on you instead of waiting behind a wall to alpha them. naturally you have to not be caught out yourself and you have less poke than a poke mech.. less lrms than a lrm boat, and lower alpha than a brawler. but having a mix of all three means you can be effective in any situation and are harder for the enemy to deal with.

[stealthraccoon]

ScarecrowES, on 06 February 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

Ultimately, I think the "blind hate" you're seeing is more like experienced dislike. LRMs are rarely a good use of space and weight on a mech. Your practical damage output will vary wildly depending on the utility of the team you're on - but more importantly, your damage to kill ratios with LRMs will be much poorer than with any other weapon type. Worse, many of the folks who mount LRMs will choose sub-optimal configurations for doing good damage or turning damage into kills. You can argue there is a certain value to the physcological effect of sustained incoming fire... this to push enemy mechs to turn tail and seek cover. But from a practical perspective, many players will be equipped to defeat LRMs outright, and many will not be intimidated by receiving a few points of damage.

So yeah, LRMs are worth packing, but rarely as a primary weapon system, and only smartly.

I agree with everything you say, but what people overlook is what LRM systems do - the can hit an enemy INDIRECTLY. Of course an auto cannon or pulse laser puts out more damage, as long as you have line-of-sight (or point of origin to target really). LRM's allow you to hit an enemy you can't yet see - nothing we have can shoot through walls. This is why so many people complain on the new Arctic map - broad shallow trenches, open terrain and little cover; prime LRM territory.

As someone who has been LRM hosed to death more than a few times, yes it sucks to get pounded whip you scramble for cover, but it is no different than getting shanked by a volley of small pulse lasers up the wazoo - exploitation of one weapon system is something people will continue to do, but in my opinion, that just becomes tedious.

[Ultimax]

nehebkau, on 06 February 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

On the crab it's fine as you almost always get CT killed because its mostly CT.

I can't tell you how many King Crabs I've popped because there is almost no reason to ever not go right torso.

It's big, it's flat, its easy to hit.

It usually contains 75% of the weapons loadout.

Sometimes there is an XL engine there.

Edited by Ultimax, 06 February 2016 - 11:47 PM.

[LordNothing]

drop the ac20 and make room for a pair of 10s, it really works. cool as a cucumber and exceptional ammo economy.

KGC-0000

Edited by LordNothing, 07 February 2016 - 01:01 AM.

[TexAce]

Ultimax, on 06 February 2016 - 11:47 PM, said:

I can't tell you how many King Crabs I've popped because there is almost no reason to ever not go right torso.

It's big, it's flat, its easy to hit.

It usually contains 75% of the weapons loadout.

Sometimes there is an XL engine there.

Yeah I know those arguments. That's why I tracked all my games since I switched to this loadouts. I died 14 times with the 0000, 2 times because of a ST loss. And both times my CT was nearly gone too.
So no I can pilot an XL mech very fine.

[Malachy Karrde]

This is what I do with my Dire Whale, except I use 4x UAC5 instead of lasers (I have some small lasers but that's it). Its incredibly effective. If you go back and read all the battletech lore, every mech for the most part had a mixed arsenal. There is a reason for that. And guess what, a mixed arsenal mech can be effective in nearly any situation.

[Votanin FleshRender]

I've been a big fan of tossing a few LRMs on assaults for a long time. Leveled the reward atlas with the same principle when it came out last year. It sucks being in a slow assault and not being able to contribute to the fight if it breaks out ahead of you.

And as much as the ubers rant endlessly how bad LRMs are, I'm sure they are in comp. But pugging, the way I see mechs back off into cover when even a single LRM5 volley heads their way is worth it.

[Otto Cannon]

On most mechs with missile hardpoints I'll have LRM as my secondary weapon group. It means there's usually no part of the match when you're not doing damage and harrassing the enemy. On assaults the indirect fire helps even more because you're just not fast enough to be everywhere at once physically, so you're never just 100 tons of wasted unproductive metal. Also there's nothing funnier than lights and mediums trying to 'gank the lurm boat' only to find you've got a pair of AC20 claws and really enjoy brawling.

[wanderer]

0rionsbane, on 06 February 2016 - 11:28 PM, said:

and this is why i feel the dont take lrm crowd is missing out. Lrms are not suppost to be the promary weapon of most mechs (a few get away with it) back it up with a nie punch and you have a easy kill in any match. you soften them and when they charge you you end them you are more balanced so your max alpha is lower but your total damage during that engagment is quite close to a pure brawler as your able to harass the entire time they close on you instead of waiting behind a wall to alpha them. naturally you have to not be caught out yourself and you have less poke than a poke mech.. less lrms than a lrm boat, and lower alpha than a brawler. but having a mix of all three means you can be effective in any situation and are harder for the enemy to deal with.

Do I really need to post one of those lists of canoncial LRM boats again?

It's a real long one. Any weapon that usually takes 12+ tons to be used effectively should be worth using. On the other hand, any LRM boat that doesn't have at least modest secondary weaponry deserves all the scorn it gets.

[GrimRiver]

I named this guy Prometheus, it's elited right now.

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3cccb2c5ff9aa03[/smurfy]
It's been the best build I could make so far, been getting 400-800 almost every match.

I know people are gonna say "just a LRM10? It's wasted space" yup just a LRM10 which it good for making them waste time looking for cover from LRM warnings until I move in brawling range.

It's also good for buttering them up a bit so they aren't 100% when I brawl them, it works for long range fire support too when I'm out of brawling range it's even gotten me some kills on weak lights and mediums.

The only down side to my atlas is the lack of arm lasers, so I can't shoot UAV's or high up targets.

[jaytar]

stalker 5m lurmboat
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...925dea762a09672

[Otto Cannon]

jaytar, on 07 February 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

stalker 5m lurmboat
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...925dea762a09672

I prefer a 5S with double AMS to win lurm duels, and 5 lasers with TAG.

[SuomiWarder]

I put some LRMs on a lot of my slow moving assaults that can mount them. Mainly I use them on the enemy that is out of my reach but fighting my allies as I waddle into range for my main weapons.

[Malachy Karrde]

I think this is why I don't subscribe to the "Direwhale sucks" crowd.  I am playing with which LRMs to use on it, but usually mount 2 LRMs n my left shoulder.  I mount 4 UAC 5 and 6 ER Small lasers.  I do just what you guys are doing, as I approach the fight, I am using LRMS. I know the maps really well and usually am getting hits because I can tell where the enemy is on the radar and whether they are under cover.  I usually do 200+ damage on the approach and then another 400+ when I am in range of my main weaponry.  Softening the enemy up with LRMs means more crits and an easier kill when my main weaponry comes to the party.

I usedto mount a pair of LRM 20, but people said they have a huge spread... I dunno, the purpose of my LRMS is to no get kills from range, but to sad off armor, so huge spread kinda worked for me... Im trying a pair of LRM 10 now, but may go with 15s or back to the 20s. Ill let ya all know heh

Edited by Malachy Karrde, 07 February 2016 - 01:24 PM.

[saberrider]

Alistair Winter, on 06 February 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

Been levelling my Maulers since they were out for C-bills. All 4 variants have 2xLRM10, all of them have energy weapons in the arms. Maulers without LRMs aren't real Maulers. Now, not only are LRMs useful for increasing your damage when you have no LOS and getting enemies to run for cover, but it's also a lot of fun. I'm actually using 4 different weapon groups on most of my Maulers, switching between lasers, ballistics and LRMs, and it's really challenging to get the most out of all my weapons, and it's really fun.

I decided that I would run LRMs on all my Maulers long ago, but actually doing it was a lot more effective and a lot more fun than I had feared.

My builds:

Spoiler

• MAL-1P: STD280, 2LPL, 2UAC5, 2LRM10
  
• MAL-1R: XL270 (come at me bro), 4AC2, 2LL, 2LRM10 (trying to stay as close to stock as possible)
  
• MAL-2P: STD275, 2LL, 4ML, 2AC5, 2LRM10
  
• MAL-MX90: STD270, 2ML, 4AC5, 2LRM10

EDIT: Before you l33t players fall off your chair in a fit of rage, I'm not saying that the Mauler with LRMs is actually the best Mauler in a min-maxing perspective. But f*** it, some of us have standards.

Alistair, I do the same with my Maulers. Without LRMs, they look as silly as Timbers without LRM ears. If I may give you one build advice: the 1R comes with a great LRM15 cooldown quirk, so I am playing this build 2 LRM15, 2 AC5, 2 LPL ---> fun machine! and I use the PPC quirks on the 1P, so like your build, with PPCs and a XL engine.

Edited by saberrider, 07 February 2016 - 01:42 PM.