141 replies to this topic

[1Grimbane]

yeah i turned arm lock off from day one and never once turned it back on and i laser alpha all over the place in a recklessly wanton fashion ... arm lock just jams me up no matter what mech i'm running,

[Salticidae]

A Direwolf has 8 energy in its arms, this will not change the laser vomit meta only the mechs they do it in.

[Spr1ggan]

Triordinant, on 07 February 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

Have you seen the Steam people?

Most vets suck at the game as well you know.

[STEF_]

Tarogato, on 07 February 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Actually you have this backward. Right now having armlock ON currently slows down your torso rotation. Having arms free, or rather armlock OFF allows you to torso twist faster. This is why I play with armlock off and I almost never even touch my armlock toggle.

It's a matter of playstyle.
When I play armlock off, I do spread enemy dmg all over and I last longer, BUT I also see I'm not so efficient in killing the enemy.
I prefer high dps, large engines (so I can twist well anyway, when it's the case), and perfect convergence.

[Lightfoot]

It only helps new players. Normally you have arm-lock off.

[Macster16]

I don't see what all the fuss over arm-lock is? I turned it off after about my second game and have never turned it back on once and I have no problem drilling out components with vomit builds from a fair distance. I've also spectated other top players over streams and I never see them play with arm lock on.

I don't get what all the fuss is about.

[Kodyn]

I thought arm-lock was just there for newer players?

I haven't used locked arms in a very, very long time, and I do tend to use a lot of laser vomit...so....what're you trying to accomplish here?

[Lugh]

ShiftySWP, on 07 February 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

Truth... I use it all the time and I am not a people.

Seriously though, I find it so useful that the toggle is bound to my mouse. No arm weapons?....then locked arms means a better aiming reticle. Spread weapons?...then arm lock helps with pin point damage and allows a quick unlock for that darn ACH sitting on top of a Mesa in Bog.

I really think efficient arm lock use is one of those little things that can make any pilot better.

When in actuality it is a something that makes any pilot that uses it worse.

It's a scrub crutch, used by those too lazy to know where their arms and torsos are in relation to each other.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lugh, on 08 February 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

When in actuality it is a something that makes any pilot that uses it worse.

It's a scrub crutch, used by those too lazy to know where their arms and torsos are in relation to each other.

always the same "skill players" desperately scrabbling about defending it and having to resort to personal attacks, because they got no valid argument, lol. It is a crutch. Not as huge a one as during poptarting but still a crutch.

[Gyrok]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 February 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

always the same "skill players" desperately scrabbling about defending it and having to resort to personal attacks, because they got no valid argument, lol. It is a crutch. Not as huge a one as during poptarting but still a crutch.

Considering you seem to have a strong opinion on this...

(I have no vested interest in the issue anyway, as I do not use arm lock...however...I do prefer the option to have the choice for anyone who does use it...)

Why not attempt to get some video evidence of what you perceive as being the "crutch" issue with arm lock?

I would love a video with commentary showing how the issue with laser vomit is a miniscule difference in the location of the reticule while still on a specific component of the mech already anyway. Maybe you could discuss the difference between that, and the fact that most laser alphas now are in the neighborhood of 50 damage...especially considering how little the 2 factors actually have to do with each other at all.

The other thing would be that it really is not difficult to keep lasers on a single component long enough with or without arm lock.

Edited by Gyrok, 08 February 2016 - 07:27 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Aresye, on 08 February 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

I think you guys need to have a paradigm shift, because you're focusing so much on the actual gameplay and TTK, while failing to consider:
1. What kind of impact this would have on a growing player base, post-steam launch?
- I think it's very risky and naive to assume that the number of players that would return and/or be attracted to the "new improved MWO," would come even close to the number of players who would quit the game entirely.
- The idea "must" be able to maintain and/or grow the current player base.

You're looking at it wrong. There are many past and present MWO players who refuse to spend any money at all until this game makes progress. PGI makes progress--they spend money!

Simple stuff, really.

It doesn't mean all of us will spend--some of us, like myself, have none to spend on anything right now.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 08 February 2016 - 07:43 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 07 February 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

Except it doesn't because you are removing the ability to focus the hunch with mech outside of those that are similar. Mechs like the Banshee, Battlemaster, etc will still be strong just like any other, but those like the Black Knight, Nova, Warhawk, Gargoyle will all suffer more than they do already from poor hardpoint locations, ESPECIALLY without quirks.


That makes no sense when the mechs with better hardpoints can mount the same weapons, meaning they are still better for the task. Keeping in mind the Vindicator and Treb already try and mount one or the other as you suggest, and would still be trash tier.

Nova won't suffer--nova packs tons of lasers an arm. No problem. The nova will benefit.

BK will just have to use some heavier lasers on one side and not rely in tiny spam. It has a narrower profile so it will do just fine.

Banshee is so wide it will spread half its shots unless it fires in clusters and the pilot manually adjusts aim. Skill ceiling increase! Battlemaster, too.

Don't own garg, vindicator or warhawk so I'm not qualified to speak on them.

Treb is trash and will stay trash until they shrink it significantly and even then it will still be... trash. Removing convergence will help it because its low slung arm weapons will have an advantage with fixed or delayed convergence.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 08 February 2016 - 07:50 AM.

[DivineEvil]

ACH75, on 07 February 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

Arms and Torso Crossairs are part of MWO Gameplay and Arm-Lock function breaks it

turning it most-like a canonic shooter game.


Removing this option will drastically reduce the effectivness of laser boating and will

encourage again multiple weapon systems loadouts.

No it wont. Arm lock has nothing to do with it.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

ACH75, on 07 February 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

Upper arms actuators can't be removed so it's sufficient to spread damage in many situations

Upper arm actuators only allow for vertical separation of the reticles. As someone that takes lower arm actuators out of my mech, I can tell you that doesn't matter most of the time.

Arm lock isn't that big of a deal the way most people think of it. The only real change I would like to see happen is that when toggling arm lock on the arm reticle centers on the torso reticle, instead of the other way around.

Edited by Rouken Vordermark, 08 February 2016 - 08:10 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mister Blastman, on 08 February 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

Nova won't suffer--nova packs tons of lasers an arm. No problem. The nova will benefit.

Having a bunch of weapons doesn't make it good, even clustered weapons, because those clustered weapons are far from the cockpit meaning the convergence is going to be terrible, a lot of lasers will simply clip into terrain worse than they do now. You know what Nova will still be good though, the poptart Nova with chin ERPPCs.

Mister Blastman, on 08 February 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

BK will just have to use some heavier lasers on one side and not rely in tiny spam. It has a narrower profile so it will do just fine.

Again, you aren't getting it, if we are forcing convergence based on cockpits, the BK will suffer, just like any other mech with hardpoints far from the cockpit (ie humanoids with low hanging arms).

Mister Blastman, on 08 February 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

Banshee is so wide it will spread half its shots unless it fires in clusters and the pilot manually adjusts aim. Skill ceiling increase! Battlemaster, too.

Actually no, most Banshees/Battlemasters should be relying on the lasers in their shoulders, which are both clustered together and close to the cockpit meaning you just encourage the LPL/LL spam.

Mister Blastman, on 08 February 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

Treb is trash and will stay trash until they shrink it significantly and even then it will still be... trash. Removing convergence will help it because its low slung arm weapons will have an advantage with fixed or delayed convergence.

No, removing instant convergence will not help it because it will always take longer to converge for weapons far away from the cockpit, that's the whole point I'm trying to make, it was part of the reason the Gaussapult reigned supreme when we had delayed convergence, because those torso mounts suffer minimally from convergence mechanisms.

[Mister Blastman]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 February 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

Having a bunch of weapons doesn't make it good, even clustered weapons, because those clustered weapons are far from the cockpit meaning the convergence is going to be terrible, a lot of lasers will simply clip into terrain worse than they do now. You know what Nova will still be good though, the poptart Nova with chin ERPPCs.


Again, you aren't getting it, if we are forcing convergence based on cockpits, the BK will suffer, just like any other mech with hardpoints far from the cockpit (ie humanoids with low hanging arms).


Actually no, most Banshees/Battlemasters should be relying on the lasers in their shoulders, which are both clustered together and close to the cockpit meaning you just encourage the LPL/LL spam.


No, removing instant convergence will not help it because it will always take longer to converge for weapons far away from the cockpit, that's the whole point I'm trying to make, it was part of the reason the Gaussapult reigned supreme when we had delayed convergence, because those torso mounts suffer minimally from convergence mechanisms.

I disagree on all points.

In Battletech weapons do not converge. So either remove convergence or change the armor system to a 3x3 or 9x9 grid.

Both will solve the problem.



or

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mister Blastman, on 08 February 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

In Battletech weapons do not converge.

Yes they do......how else would you be able to hit things with all your weapons at long range (yes, it may be rarer but it is still possible) unless we are thinking they are seriously shifting their mech within that 10 seconds so that each weapon (including low mounted ones) are able to hit the enemy......

They are able to control that in some fashion, for arms it makes sense that they have some sort of convergence system in place, but I'm getting ahead of myself because who honestly cares whether they do or not, this sort of change nerfs anything with bad mounts more so than they are currently, so why are we even contemplating this?

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 08 February 2016 - 09:13 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 February 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Yes they do......how else would you be able to hit things with all your weapons at long range (yes, it may be rarer but it is still possible) unless we are thinking they are seriously shifting their mech within that 10 seconds so that each weapon (including low mounted ones) are able to hit the enemy......

No they don't. You don't see a 'mech alpha strike turn after turn and hit the same panel over and over again with every weapon.

You don't see a nova with six medium and six small lasers alpha over and over and hit the same panel.

The dice don't allow it!

Now probability says it can happen. But will it happen with the reliability and ease that it happens in MWO?

No.

Just stop. Please.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mister Blastman, on 08 February 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

No they don't. You don't see a 'mech alpha strike turn after turn and hit the same panel over and over again with every weapon.

You don't see a nova with six medium and six small lasers alpha over and over and hit the same panel.

The dice don't allow it!

Now probability says it can happen.

That doesn't mean there is no convergence in TT........just means it isn't automated and perfect.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 08 February 2016 - 09:20 AM.

[Mystere]

Mister Blastman, on 07 February 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

Non-issue. Shoot torso, guns gone. Problem solved.

Quirks would be gone, too.

But, but, but, they keep insisting that the one and only true way to fight such a mech is to also use the same mech.

Edited by Mystere, 08 February 2016 - 09:20 AM.