141 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

new players learned just fine for the first year or more without it..... because we didn't even have the option.

Have you seen the Steam people?

[Bishop Steiner]

Triordinant, on 07 February 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

Have you seen the Steam people?

I don't cotton to a Welfare State.

[Mystere]

Sigh! Arm-lock is not the problem. Near-instant, automatic, and pixel-perfect convergence is.

Edited by Mystere, 07 February 2016 - 07:28 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

I dont arm lock on my laserboats actually, because I usually have the bigger lasers in the arms for more flexibility and the majority of the smaller damage dealers in the torso...changes like this actually only hurt me in OTHER mechs that dont even boat lasers, like my AC20 marauder that I lock the arms on because they are a little TOO.....whobbly? i guess is the right way to put it?

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 07 February 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

Sigh! Arm-lock is not the problem. Near-instant, automatic, and pixel-perfect convergence is.

Actually, BOTH are.

And a whole lot more.

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

I don't cotton to a Welfare State.

???

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

Actually, BOTH are.

Arm-lock is not a problem. If it is, then we should have at least 3 reticules: left arm, right arm, head/torso.

Edited by Mystere, 07 February 2016 - 07:34 AM.

[FupDup]

Although I do think armlock should go (at least for people who have completed enough matches to not be a "nub" anymore), I don't think that would solve the overall weapon balancing problems.

It's still hilariously ironic that armlock was intended to help new players get used to the game, but instead it makes new players die horrible deaths while helping seasoned veteran players push out pinpoint alpha strikes with higher precision.

[M T]

How much more laser/alpha cry threads do we need?

[Mystere]

x MT x, on 07 February 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

How much more laser/alpha cry threads do we need?

I guess more because there is another new one.

[Luminis]

To get people away from laser vomiting, you'd have to fiddle with weapon systems. Arm mounted lasers and torso mounted lasers spreading damage more doesn't make ballistics a better choice if they're spreading more than before, either...

I don't need to pretend to be a super skilled player, so yeah, I use arm lock to sync my weapon systems when running the same stuff on arms and torso. No need to beat around the bush, imho - "take away armlock, underskilled noobs don't deserve a crutch" would've been a more straight forward way of putting it

/edit:
I don't quite know how to make it work input-wise, but it'd be cool to be able to aim both the torso mounted and arm mounted weapons with complete independence so you can engage two targets at once

Edited by Luminis, 07 February 2016 - 07:40 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 07 February 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

???




Arm-lock is not a problem. If it is, then we should have at least 3 reticules: left arm, right arm, head/torso.

http://idioms.thefre...y.com/cotton+to
Idioms. Not just for idiots, anymore.

And as long as Armslock is a crutch for instant snap aim perfect convergence, then yes, it's part of the problem.

x MT x, on 07 February 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

How much more laser/alpha cry threads do we need?

plenty until stale game play is fixed, one way or the other.

Luminis, on 07 February 2016 - 07:38 AM, said:

I don't quite know how to make it work input-wise, but it'd be cool to be able to aim both the torso mounted and arm mounted weapons with complete independence so you can engage two targets at once

Unless I'm totally misunderstanding you.... you can (within limits of FoV)...by unbinding armslock.

I regularly shoot at more than one target.

Whenever you see a Stinkfist Mech show up like


it's a great example of armlock being part of the issue. Not all of it, not by a long shot, but definitely part.

Now people say "Well people will just go to Mech XYZ with no arm weapons". Great if they want to gimp themselves and limit themselves more and be set to get killed by any competent Light... I say go for it.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 February 2016 - 07:43 AM.

[Coralld]

Remove arm lock. I have been against it from the start as I knew it would be used as a crutch. Sure, unlocking your arms are great for brawls but I see more people use arm lock for everything else. I can't even begine to tell you guys how often I have seen people togle on and off arm lock for what ever would give them the biggest advantage and it does lead to greater abuse to alphas. Sure not everyone uses arm lock to alpha, I for one do not, and sure, probably a lot of other people dont as well. So removing arm lock to curve even some of the crazy amount of accurate alphas would be a step in the right direction.
Like what Bishop said, if most people don't use arm lock then why not get rid of it?
I think the answer is painfully obvious. Even if it's true most people do not use arm lock that those who do would much rather continue to use their crutch and will hide behind excuses, and thinly veiled ones at that, in older to keep their crutch. Just like how back in the poptart days when PGI was attempting a number of ways to curve the abuse, people came out of the woodwork saying that the new system made them motion sick or what ever and that PGI shouldn't try to curve poptarting because poptarting was fine in their book. Everyone of them or at least the vast majority of them were obviously full of crap and wanted to keep their crutch and I see this as being no different.

Edited by Coralld, 07 February 2016 - 07:54 AM.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

If it won't matter, then why dost they protest verily?

Because it simply creates or reinforces which mechs are the best due to their hardpoint location or lack of lower actuators - which by the way means all clan mechs who can remove their lower actuators unlike IS mechs, or mechs that can boat in torsos (Most of these are already the best, this would just increase the gap. EX: Banshee, Stalker, Battlemaster, TBR, GRH-5H/5P, QKD-5K, BJ, etc.,).

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

Now people say "Well people will just go to Mech XYZ with no arm weapons". Great if they want to gimp themselves and limit themselves more and be set to get killed by any competent Light... I say go for it.

This is a fallacy, based on bias.


You don't need lower arm actuators to deal with lights.

Edited by Ultimax, 07 February 2016 - 07:54 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimax, on 07 February 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

Because it simply creates or reinforces which mechs are the best due to their hardpoint location or lack of lower actuators - which by the way means all clan mechs who can remove their lower actuators unlike IS mechs, or mechs that can boat in torsos (Most of these are already the best, this would just increase the gap. EX: Banshee, Stalker, Battlemaster, TBR, GRH-5H/5P, QKD-5K, BJ, etc.,).






This is a fallacy, based on bias.


You don't need lower arm actuators to deal with lights.

Actually on many assault mechs you do, unless the Light is bad. BNC-3M and 3E for instance, are literally incapable of depressing their weapons enough to deal with a Light Mech that knows how to anklehug. Your basic 300 engine 100 tonner has a vastly more difficult time tracking a close, fast Light Mech.

But I'm not shocked you are desperate to keep your crutch.

[GreyNovember]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

BNC-3M and 3E for instance, are literally incapable of depressing their weapons enough to deal with a Light Mech that knows how to anklehug.

I did not know this. Duly noted.

Does this apply to -every- light mech?

[sycocys]

Doesn't solve anything for the mechs that have the majority of their hard points either in their torsos or their arms.

[Bishop Steiner]

sycocys, on 07 February 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

Doesn't solve anything for the mechs that have the majority of their hard points either in their torsos or their arms.

No one said it does.

GreyNovember, on 07 February 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

I did not know this. Duly noted.

Does this apply to -every- light mech?

Haven't tested all. I know Locusts, Commandos and Urbies are short enough that it is so.

[adamts01]

x MT x, on 07 February 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

How much more laser/alpha cry threads do we need?

Well, PGI doesn't listen to constructive criticism, and laserboating has bean a thing for over a year, so...

This is the same as my weekly cry threads about MM. Until I have teammates who don't cap with assaults in conquest and stop sniping with small lasers, I'll keep whining. I just got frustrated remembering a pair of King Crabs who thought a suprise base cap via Jenner Highway was a good idea.... I'm laser roasting the next King Crab arms I see, blue or red, you can all report me.

[Coralld]

sycocys, on 07 February 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

Doesn't solve anything for the mechs that have the majority of their hard points either in their torsos or their arms.

Which is why those mechs get savaged by Lights as it's hard to track a Light that is circling very close to you.
As I have stated before. People togle it on and off to give them the best advantage at a point in time. Many people in my unit and on my friends list as well as people I spectate does this.

Now removing arm lock will not stop the high accurate alphas but it would indeed curve some of it and that is always a good thing.

Edited by Coralld, 07 February 2016 - 08:24 AM.

[Luminis]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

Unless I'm totally misunderstanding you.... you can (within limits of FoV)...by unbinding armslock.

I regularly shoot at more than one target.

With armlock turned off, the torso and arm reticles still follow the same mouse inputs and eventually converge, I thought? I was thinking more along the lines of entirely independent aiming, but, as I said, I don't know how to make that work with just keyboard and mouse