25 replies to this topic

[Maineiacal Maineiac]

I got the Catapult that has 2 LRM 15s and 3 ml.

I ditched the lasers and JJ and got 3 medium pulse lasers.

My rockets aren't doing much damage. I am also getting creamed. Do I need Artemis, for that matter can I get it Artemis on this.

I keep buying mechs, and they just don't work for me. Only one that has is the Steam King Crab.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

runciblelate, on 07 February 2016 - 08:44 PM, said:

I got the Catapult that has 2 LRM 15s and 3 ml.

I ditched the lasers and JJ and got 3 medium pulse lasers.

My rockets aren't doing much damage. I am also getting creamed. Do I need Artemis, for that matter can I get it Artemis on this.

I keep buying mechs, and they just don't work for me. Only one that has is the Steam King Crab.

Use http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab to show us your build. We'll be able to make suggestions much more easily through it.

For the record, LRMs are very, very much hit and miss. I take it you are running a CPLT-C1 with a stock loadout? For the life of me, I don't know what you're doing with that mech, but if I were looking at the quirks, it looks more like a LL/LPL energy boat than a missile mech.

CPLT-C1 3LL / LRM10x2

I would either forgo missiles completely on it, or go with SRM4s + LPL or SRM4 + LL on it. It simply doesn't have the missile hardpoints to lay down a consistent LRM rain unlike the C4 or the A1.

Edited by Fox With A Shotgun, 07 February 2016 - 08:57 PM.

[Heeknot]

Artemis doesn't increase damage but instead helps with locing on and tracking. A tip about inter sphere LRMs is they have a minimum 180 meter arming range and a max range of 1000m. If you are closer than 180 meters or further than 1000 meters your LRMs will not do any damage.

[Ace Selin]

Atremis helps with lessening the spread of missiles and for LRM15 & LRM20 they are adviseable, for LRM10 it can go either way and LRM5 not required imo. You can get Artemis on any mech that can fire missiles provided you pay for the upgrade and the actual launchers (Artemis and non Artemis launchers are different, Artemis also use more slots). Try to use LRMs between 3-500metres so mechs cant get into cover, though they work up to 1000 and as low as 180m (but not under). LRMs in lwoer tiers should be able to do lots of damage i would think, unless people have mass AMS fitted.

[mailin]

Just curious, but are you pressing R, and waiting for the ring to turn red before firing your lrms? Without doing that you are dumb firing them, so they won't do much damage at all.

Edited by mailin, 07 February 2016 - 08:54 PM.

[Ace Selin]

mailin, on 07 February 2016 - 08:51 PM, said:

Just curious, but are you press R, and waiting for the ring to turn red before firing your lrms? Without doing that you are dumb firing them, so they won't do much damage at all.

Good point.
They will do the same amount of damage but they will not lock on so moving mechs will likely not get hit. But dumb firing is great for overheated or ECM mechs.

[Fiona Marshe]

Good LRM play takes a lot of work (ie: 100,000 xp before you can consider yourself competent). I currently have 980,000 xp on my CPLT-C4 and still get hit/miss games depending upon the opposition skill level.

There are quite a few LRM guides in this forum with video examples.

Poor LRM play is what gives them such a bad reputation.

[Maineiacal Maineiac]

Thanks for the help, guys. I will work on it.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

you should use a 'target decay module' it will hold the target lock 2.75 seconds after the target moves out of sight.

[Wedge Red Leader]

Using LRMS is only rarely ever going to get you a lot of damage or kills. You really need a lot of team support to do it. You need good spotters, another LRM boat to vector in some cross fire, and you need to know the maps vey well. O, and someone keeping an eye on ya when the other team finds you.
IHMO, you need to stick with any of the mech chassis until you get one mastered. Most mechs don't really shine until you get them to elite/master, and equip a few modules. For PuGs I'd suggest using LRMs just for harassing fire, and to pick up assists. IS LRMs are pretty heavy, I'd go with like 1 LRM10, or 2 LRM 5s. And put on large lasers, or ER large lasers for use as your main weapons. And as far as Artemis, well in my experience you rarely ever see your target, so it hasn't been worth it to me. Catapults are a good chassis, in the right hands they can really brawl with SRMs. And like I said, with he right team, they can really rain the LRMs.

[Koniving]

runciblelate, on 08 February 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

Thanks for the help, guys. I will work on it.

Surprisingly... there wasn't a single mention here on it so I'll make sure to put it down.

At less than 180 meters for IS LRMs... you do 0 damage. MWO blames "safety" mechanisms.
At less than 90 meters for Clan LRMs, damage is exponentially reduced. 45 meters and the missiles are doing about 0.25 damage each. 20 meters and it's 0.0# damage.

Goofy mechanic, especially since the range thing is supposed to be a "Minimum accurate range penalty", where because the missiles are supposed to fire up and over for the IS, it's hard as heck to hit something right in front of you. For Clans, they are supposed to fire them straight and never indirectly, hence they don't have the minimum accurate range (but with MWO's system that's unfair since Clans can do up and over too, hence the above goofiness).

[Romeo Deluxe]

Heeknot, on 07 February 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

Artemis doesn't increase damage but instead helps with locing on and tracking. A tip about inter sphere LRMs is they have a minimum 180 meter arming range and a max range of 1000m. If you are closer than 180 meters or further than 1000 meters your LRMs will not do any damage.

Artemis reduces the spread of damage so the missiles land in a tighter cluster. It does NOTHING for locking and tracking.

Wedge Red Leader, on 08 February 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

Using LRMS is only rarely ever going to get you a lot of damage or kills. You really need a lot of team support to do it. You need good spotters, another LRM boat to vector in some cross fire, and you need to know the maps vey well. O, and someone keeping an eye on ya when the other team finds you.
IHMO, you need to stick with any of the mech chassis until you get one mastered. Most mechs don't really shine until you get them to elite/master, and equip a few modules. For PuGs I'd suggest using LRMs just for harassing fire, and to pick up assists. IS LRMs are pretty heavy, I'd go with like 1 LRM10, or 2 LRM 5s. And put on large lasers, or ER large lasers for use as your main weapons. And as far as Artemis, well in my experience you rarely ever see your target, so it hasn't been worth it to me. Catapults are a good chassis, in the right hands they can really brawl with SRMs. And like I said, with he right team, they can really rain the LRMs.

LRMS can indeed put out a lot of damage. However, that damage is spread out so it may not get you more kills compared to the damage it puts out.

You don't need any team support at all. The most effective use is to get your own locks. This reduces the chance of wasting volleys that hit objects and never get to the target.

The effective range I find is 200 - 300m, right behind the rest of your team. People have less time to duck into cover and you can see where the missiles are going. You are right about them being great at harassing. Harassing helps reduce the damage on your team so they can focus on fewer targets. It's a very good psychological weapon and sowing a bit of panic on the other team. You won't be roleplaying Rambo super hero with LRMs.

They are OK when you want to take a break from the usual but the worst thing you can do is get locked into one weapon system and playstyle. Especially in the long run.

[Fiona Marshe]

Artemis does help with locks; when you have LOS, its 25% faster. That can be a significant advantage in a heavy engagement.

[Wedge Red Leader]

Romeo Deluxe, on 10 February 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

You don't need any team support at all. The most effective use is to get your own locks. This reduces the chance of wasting volleys that hit objects and never get to the target.

The effective range I find is 200 - 300m, right behind the rest of your team. People have less time to duck into cover and you can see where the missiles are going.

Seeing is believing. I guess, if I wander into a tier 5 match I will.

Edited by Wedge Red Leader, 10 February 2016 - 04:39 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Koniving, on 09 February 2016 - 05:10 AM, said:

Surprisingly... there wasn't a single mention here on it so I'll make sure to put it down.

At less than 180 meters for IS LRMs... you do 0 damage. MWO blames "safety" mechanisms.
At less than 90 meters for Clan LRMs, damage is exponentially reduced. 45 meters and the missiles are doing about 0.25 damage each. 20 meters and it's 0.0# damage.

Goofy mechanic, especially since the range thing is supposed to be a "Minimum accurate range penalty", where because the missiles are supposed to fire up and over for the IS, it's hard as heck to hit something right in front of you. For Clans, they are supposed to fire them straight and never indirectly, hence they don't have the minimum accurate range (but with MWO's system that's unfair since Clans can do up and over too, hence the above goofiness).

I believe they used that one story about how IS pilots don't arm their missiles inside the launchers, because the warheads are live and exposed, so a stray shot could set them off, and thus they arm the missiles after they launch, causing the 180 meter penalty. While clan pilots have CASE II, so it's not that risky for them.

Romeo Deluxe, on 10 February 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Artemis reduces the spread of damage so the missiles land in a tighter cluster. It does NOTHING for locking and tracking.

Actually it does improve tracking, and if I'm not mistaken, when you have line of sight, it reduces lock on time by 25%, which is why it stacks with TAG for a 50% reduction in lock time (there's even a splashscreen tooltip about it in-game.

[AnimeFreak40K]

As other folks have suggested, you may want to post your build (Smurfy is an excellent means of doing so) so we can see what it is you're running and what you're trying to do.

That said, there are a lot of reasons why your LRM 15's aren't doing a lot of damage (Note, this is not a comprehensive list, there could be other reasons as well!);
- Firing at less than 180 meters - Inner Sphere LRMs do 0 damage between 0 and 179 meters)
- Dumb-Firing (that is, not firing with a full lock) - LRMs that are not fully locked on spread out and end up hitting a lot of area...not necessarily a lot of target
- Obstructed flight-path - Missiles will bounce off of/explode on scenery that they hit, meaning that large salvos will tend to lose some of their missiles due to colliding with scenery on the way to the target. This applies to the target moving into cover
- Losing then regaining locks - Missiles that lose lock in mid-flight will fly towards the area they last had lock and spread out (as noted with dumb-firing), and if you regain lock soon enough, the missiles will adjust their flight-path accordingly. This means that it's very possible that the entire salvo will not hit
- Shooting at fast-moving targets - some mechs (especially Lights and some Mediums) can move such that missiles in-flight can't keep up, thus they won't get hit by the entire salvo
- Enemy has AMS - AMS shoots down missiles in-flight and while some of the missiles can/will get through, the salvo will be diminished

Ways to counter (or at least minimize) this:
- Never shoot at a target that's less than 200 meters away with LRMs if you can help it. It's too easy for an enemy to move into your minimum range at that distance.
- Only fire when you are sure you have a solid lock (that is, you won't lose lock just after firing or while in mid-flight). This is not always a sure-fire thing, but it will help you not waste ammo
- Be aware of your surroundings. Not much to this really, just be aware of where you and your allies are. Pop into 3PV if you need to check around to make sure your missile tubes are clear of obstructions such as scenery and friendlies.
- Focus on Heavy and Assault mechs. These guys reliably move slow and so will have a harder time getting into cover, and you won't ever have to worry about them outrunning your missiles (unless you're shooting at them from a long distance...)
- Be near where the fighting is. Ideally, you want to be between 300-500 meters from whatever you're shooting at. This will minimize the flight-time of your missiles, thus making it harder for targets to get into cover as well as minimize how many missiles are shot down by AMS. Also, you're also sharing your armor/durability with your allies (that is, enemies that are shooting at you aren't shooting your allies, which improves their survivablity and allows them to shoot at what's shooting you)
- Equip Artemis if possible. While this won't increase damage, it will reduce the amount of time it takes to lock onto a target. It also will cause your missiles to form into tighter clusters while in flight as long as you maintain LOS of whatever you're shooting at
- Equip BAP if possible. Not only will this increase your sensor range, it also can help get target information faster (which is a benefit to yourself and your teammates). More importantly, it will counter 1 enemy ECM within 240 meters.
- Equip TAG if possible. TAG works similar to Artemis but better...as long as you keep the beam on the target of course.
- Equip NARC if possible. NARC works similar to TAG, except that it not only counters ECM (that is, an ECM-equipped mech will have it's ECM disrupted...but if that mech runs into an ECM bubble, it will be hidden) but it also provides a beacon for targets that are out of LOS
(Note: there is no reason to equip both NARC and TAG).
- Let your teammates know you have LRMs. Good teammates will lock onto what they're shooting at as well as make use of their equipment (many scouts equip NARC and Tag and can act as a spotter).

Hope this helps.

[mailin]

I agree that firing lrms in the 200-300 m range is good because you will usually have LOS, but there is a problem with that range. The trajectory of the lrms is nearly flat. Meaning that any friendly mech between you and the enemy might get pounded in the back. Instead, I like to go about 500 m out. There the trajectory is much more an arc and it is much easier to to lrm an enemy without hitting intervening friendlies.

No matter what though you do not want to stand in one spot and keep firing lrms while your frienlies move away from you. That is probably one of the most common mistakes I see.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Personally, I feel that 200 meters is too close (far too easy for the target to stumble forward that 21 meters and ruin your shot)...and anything more than 500 meters usually (but not always) means you are probably too far away from the fight to lend your armor to your allies.

Obviously this varies on a case-by case basis...and what goes on during an actual fight will go a long way to dictate what *actually* happens far more often than not.

That said, I have found that as long as you are close enough to share armor/damage with your allies as needed, you will be far more effective.

[Koniving]

IraqiWalker, on 10 February 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

I believe they used that one story about how IS pilots don't arm their missiles inside the launchers, because the warheads are live and exposed, so a stray shot could set them off, and thus they arm the missiles after they launch, causing the 180 meter penalty. While clan pilots have CASE II, so it's not that risky for them.

This is one of the several explanations. However, that doesn't explain a minimum range penalty is specifically stated to be a Minimum Accurate Range Penalty that still allows us to deliver damage on targets within 30 meters using IS LRMs. Just a lot less likely to hit the target.


"The basic difference is between the two lies in the fact that LRMs are indirect fire weapons, designed to be lobbed in an arc against their target, rather than being fired directly at them. For this reason, the accuracy of LRM fire is severely hampered at ranges much less than 180 meters."

o.o; I've seen and have spread the other explanation, however it doesn't fit with the books or the short stories or even with how battletech works,.
I recite this scenario.

Targeting Enforcers in hexes 1007, 0405, 0505, and 0904 each with a single LRM-5 (4 launchers total, one fired at each)... The 4 LRM-5s are mounted on the front of my tank. The tank's right side treads are destroyed.
I nailed 1007 with 4 out of 5 missiles and crippled his leg despite being within 90 meters. I nailed 0405 without issue. Pilot was already unconscious. Nailed 0505. Pilot lost consciousness and mech fell over. Missed 0904. Having a launcher fire up-and-over as well as try to pull a 90+ degree turn within the first 30 meters of firing was pretty much impossible. My missiles landed on the hex just 0803 instead, and failed to start a fire due to desert sand. Did a whopping 5 damage to terrain though (oooo.... ahhhh...).

Nothin' about toying with safety systems or any of that nonsense.

Edited by Koniving, 11 February 2016 - 06:29 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Koniving, on 10 February 2016 - 09:27 PM, said:

This is one of the several explanations. However, that doesn't explain a minimum range penalty is specifically stated to be a Minimum Accurate Range Penalty that still allows us to deliver damage on targets within 30 meters using IS LRMs. Just a lot less likely to hit the target.

In all fairness a missile not hitting or dealing 0 damage are functionally the same, and thus the explanation can be handwaved as either or.