91 replies to this topic

[Moldur]

The more you elaborate, the more I see the idea of cone fire being a good implementation. It just depends on the exact mechanics involved.

[Troutmonkey]

Mystere, on 08 February 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

Red herring.

It's not a red herring. It's a legitimate concern and a very likely possibility. You can't just ignore the fact players will manage to scew up and set their manual convergence distance to bad range and shoot allies with their cross eyed shots.

Mystere, on 08 February 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

Ideally, people would set their default convergence distance according to the intended playstyle and loadout of the Mech they're deploying. Heck, PGI can even implement preset distances.

As for changing the convergence distance in the heat of battle, I can use presets mentioned above, the mouse scroll wheel, a pair of vertically adjacent keyboard or G13 keys, or any free analog axis or slider switch on my HOTAS. And the same trick I mentioned in another post applies: find a good enough distance to target suitable to your loadout.

You're still adding another layer of complexity to an already complex system. People do not want to mess around with another control in real time just so they can hit their target at all. If you use preset values you'll run into same issues where anything past the convergence distance is impossible to hit because of the cross eyed effect, and anything too close will be hard to hit to because of the spacing between hardpoints. It's not a fun mechanic, it's not easy to use, and it's just frustrating. In a game, fun is a very important metric that needs to be accounted for in any mechanic.

Mystere, on 08 February 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

For simplicity, the convergence distance is the distance between your mech and the currently or previously locked target, unless manually changed.

Which part of the mech? The Centre torso? If you do that you're still going to wind up with convergence issues where shots cross eye over when shooting parts of the mech further away than the CT. This don't even account for unlocked fire where if I lock on the the wrong mech just before firing - ie one that's really close while shooting one that's far away - my shots are not going to hit anything at all except maybe the dirt on either side of me.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 08 February 2016 - 03:59 PM.

[Bobzilla]

I think they should go with reticle bloom. Keeps perfect convergence, keeps pinpoint accuracy (much harder), keeps skill consideration, easily tied to heat or movement. Hit scan lasers kinda defeats it's purpose, but still better to have a bit of spread/miss at first (giving time to react).

[Aresye]

Troutmonkey, on 08 February 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

Well we already have a CoF for MGs and JJs. And lets not forget the PPC in this video that everyone got so excited about all these years ago

That was also a teaser video for a game that was going to be set in 3025 and primarily based on single player. A game that also happened to be scrapped due to lack of funding and has no connection to the online only, F2P game that we know as MWO.

[Troutmonkey]

Bobzilla, on 08 February 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

I think they should go with reticle bloom. Keeps perfect convergence, keeps pinpoint accuracy (much harder), keeps skill consideration, easily tied to heat or movement. Hit scan lasers kinda defeats it's purpose, but still better to have a bit of spread/miss at first (giving time to react).

I can understand why people suggest heat (lore), but why does everyone keep suggesting that movement needs to be penalized at all? Mechs shooting while moving isn't an issue that's needs addressing. Heat really isn't either because heat punishes itself and is already a limiting factor. CoF should only be brought into to combat high alpha, and thus should not apply to movement, heat, or firing off a "reasonable" amount of damage at once. Perfect convergence is fine until ~30 dmg, but then 40, 50 and even 80 point alpha's start to break the system. CoF can be brought in to surgically address that issue without affecting any other mechanic. It's the lowest risk change possible and requires the smallest change in player behaviour.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 08 February 2016 - 04:31 PM.

[Sable]

Maybe some variation of the delayed convergence. Make it much faster though. Also convergence would need some kind of disruption when your mech is hit by fire. Like if your left shoulder is hit it would knock your left arm out of covergence for a second before it would move back into alignment. it would make avoiding fire much more meaningful, not to reduce damage but to actually get good shots.

[Bobzilla]

Heat should have an effect other than limiting dps, other wise you get high alpha range as meta.

[Intrepid]

Widowmaker1981, on 08 February 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

Delayed convergence USED TO BE IN THE GAME. PGI removed it because it wouldn't work with HSR. they didnt make that up, why would they remove a feature they spent time implenting?

Stupidity?
Incompetence?
Laziness?
That was their opinion at the time?

Really you have been around for 2 years and you are asking why they would remove a working feature?

[Widowmaker1981]

Intrepid, on 10 February 2016 - 04:22 AM, said:

Stupidity?
Incompetence?
Laziness?
That was their opinion at the time?

Really you have been around for 2 years and you are asking why they would remove a working feature?

So you think that they removed an implemented and functioning feature of the game, which they obviously intended to keep (see pinpoint skill) for no reason? Or just to annoy people? Businesses don't do things for no reason, and they certainly don't do things to deliberately annoy their customers.

PGI explained that the reason for the features removal was that they could not make it work with HSR.

Since there is no non technical motivation i can see for its removal, it makes sense that the reason they gave is the truth, and if its a choice between delayed convergence and HSR, im going to chose HSR - if i had to shoot empty air with my hitscan lasers in order to compensate for ping, i'd be uninstalling immediately.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 10 February 2016 - 04:46 AM.

[Greyhart]

Wish we would have some sort of statement from PGi on the issue one way or another.

anyway the OP is awesome

[Troutmonkey]

Fixed delayed convergence. After my CoF proposal, this is my next favourite suggestion. As you can see here jump sniping and corner peaking are much less effective as the convergence point takes a second or two to focus properly.
Unfortunately, PGI have already state that this can't work for HSR reasons

Edited by Troutmonkey, 11 February 2016 - 05:22 PM.

[Tarogato]

Troutmonkey, on 11 February 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

Fixed delayed convergence. After my CoF proposal, this is my next favourite suggestion. As you can see here jump sniping and corner peaking are much less effective as the convergence point takes a second or two to focus properly.
Unfortunately, PGI have already state that this can't work for HSR reasons

Thanks for the bug fix, this looks much better. I definitely prefer some variation on what I'm seeing in this video to both what we have now and straight CoF. Delayed convergence just looks natural to me. I don't understand why PGI can't make HSR capture it - just sounds like a lazy excuse to me that they don't want to have to dig deep enough for a solution or have to rewrite some base code. Just a shame, because this could fix so many gameplay issues.