44 replies to this topic

[Sean von Steinike]

Would make an interesting mission type if you had to run in and grab loot while the other team had to try to stop it.

[Butane9000]

Sean von Steinike, on 13 July 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

Would make an interesting mission type if you had to run in and grab loot while the other team had to try to stop it.

An Attack/Defend mode would be awesome.

[Insidious Johnson]

I advocate kungfu grips, hatchets, and melee. They are all happy endings in the pursuit of the perfect mechwarrior sim.

[Terror Teddy]

Games for hand Actuators

-Capture the flag
-Transportation [Get from A to B]
-Rescue Mission [Get pilot NPC from Enemy Base to your base]
-Demolition op [Place explosives and arm it]
-Disarm Explosives
-Throw Terrain [Last ditch, pick up a rock and throw it - damage as a single shot AC2]

[Third Flower]

Games without hand Actuators:

-Mechwarrior: Online: Mercenaries ( http://mwomercs.com )

[Theodor Kling]

Terror Teddy, on 13 July 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

Games for hand Actuators
-Demolition op [Place explosives and arm it]
-Disarm Explosives

Arming and disarming explosives with a mech's hands is impossible. Ok arming might work, if the switch has the right size.

[Terror Teddy]

Theodor Kling, on 13 July 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

Arming and disarming explosives with a mech's hands is impossible. Ok arming might work, if the switch has the right size.

Allright, disarming might be a tad much but picking it up and runnign away with it before it goes BOOM might suffice.

Third Flower, on 13 July 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

Games without hand Actuators: -Mechwarrior: Online: Mercenaries ( http://mwomercs.com )

I disagree.

A capture the flag game with goals as friendly Solaris competitions might be viable and thus hands becomes important to pick up said flags.

[Murku]

Be nice to see a little in the way of combat engineering (ability to move through certain terrains like trees and rubble quicker), less charge damage (making them semi-melee) and quicker recoveries from knockdown also featured for Mechs with hands/more complete arms. Otherwise they just rob players of available slots.

[Saivost Rast]

I think this is a brilliant idea! I really hope we will see something like this in the near future.

[Twisp]

Carving up carrier mechs with a well placed PPC burst sounds like great fun. All for it.

[bpphantom]

I love the idea. It lends itself well to the role based combat being presented and opens up a few more "objective" based scenarios.

[RCDragon]

How about the classic, Shakespeare dramatic pose (think of Hamlet holding Yorick's skull), holding the blown off head up for all to seeee

[Major Tom]

• I don't think we need a special game type to justify hand actuators any more than a special game type to justify jump jets, or bipedal mechs.
  
• At its core Mechwarrior/Battletech is about giant robot armored combat, not a footrace, which is ultimately what capture the flag becomes. The idea is not to make battles exclude certain chassis and tonnage, the idea is for all mechs to serve a battlefield role. Which is why 'capture and hold' missions work, but 'capture and run' do not.

[Black Rock Shooter]

Theodor Kling, on 13 July 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

Depends on the implementation, but yeah, the risk is there.

But it needs to be implemented if mellee is as well. Just for the fun of grabbing the blown of limb of a medium mech and use it as a club on his lancemates

That's why you counterbalance it with the salvage pool system and making sure salvage rights only fall to victors. If your team loses the battle, then even if you survived, you'd lose that Clan ER PPC you got from the Summoner. Basically, this would result in the easiest way to earn salvage being to win the battle, and do so gloriously. Idiots will still exist no matter what you do, but most rational players will realize that pillaging BEFORE winning the battle is dumb.

Of course, when only one Jenner from the enemy team is still running around and six of your teammates are still alive, the temptation will be huge to start parts-hunting, but that's par for the course and is technically lore-accurate. BT mercs (and c. 3025 House regulars) in the fiction do that all the time.

The in-battle salvage option will then be used only by those people who just need that single Mad Cat right little toe to complete his baby or the extreme risk-takers who have supreme confidence in their abilities, or players in a sure-win scenario. Selfish idiots will likely cause their teams to lose and gain nothing from their selfishness (because they lose the salvage) and end up being left behind all the time if they turn out to be too stupid to recognize their mistake.

[Theodor Kling]

Terror Teddy, on 13 July 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

Allright, disarming might be a tad much but picking it up and runnign away with it before it goes BOOM might suffice.

Better have that done by an assault Imagine a Commando having the bomb in its hands when i goes off

Murku, on 13 July 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

Be nice to see a little in the way of combat engineering (ability to move through certain terrains like trees and rubble quicker), less charge damage (making them semi-melee) and quicker recoveries from knockdown also featured for Mechs with hands/more complete arms. Otherwise they just rob players of available slots.

The terrain dependent stuff might be hard to do. Although I would love it. And expand it: going around a corner faster by grabbing the building standing at it. Or climbing if a cliff/building is durable enough.
But making getting up after a fall easier with fully modeled arms and hands seems like a great and easy to implement thing. Imagine a Jenner or Cicada struggle to get up compared to a commando or Atlas. And a Dragon wiht only one real arm somewhere inbetween.

[BallSabre]

Capture the flag has been seen so many times that the idea of it is making my head hurt.

How to make this really work is to have a "vehicle" that transports item X from point A to B and the commander can choose what pre-made route it is going to take and maybe even something like "stop" and "go". Leaving the team to protect it and scout the routes for ambushes. A win would be the item arriving safely at point B.

Now the other team would start from the SIDE and they would win if the item X was taken to their base at the side of the map. This would leave the team to set up ambushes and guerilla tactics.

To me this sounds like fun DIFFERENT and challenging game play

Example.
Team 1 starts from the North end of the map and they have to get the Item to the South side of the map.
Team 2 starts from the East side of the map and because of this could deploy quickly at any point on the map where the convoy could come through.
Team 1 would send scouts ahead and the leader would decide the route they are taking while Team 2 sends their own scouts to try to find what route the convoy is taking and then set up an ambush by powering down near choke points to take Team 1 by surprice. (works well for suspence as well)

Team 1 could go right past Team 2 by using a different route and it could end before any contact is made but its more likely that it would end up as an epic ambus and some seriously fun game play. Not to mention how much of a bigger role the scouts would play while even the assaults could be usefull by just going with the transporting "vehicle" and protecting it.

Can team 1 win if the "vehicle" is destroyed?
yes it can, just grab the item and take it to the desicnated point. (of course Team 1 would not be able to damage this vehicle to prevent "hacksing")

[Worchyld]

There have been excelent examples of how to practicly bring hands into this game i hope the devs can do some thing with these ideas

[MechaDraco]

The only thing I would want to say is what happens if the raiders didnt have a hand actuator mech, perhaps add a method to collect the raid material that isnt quite as effective as the hand actuator, maybe a little slower or, maybe is easily destroyed, perhaps a transport helo, or aerospace that you have to call in, after you have secured the "package"

[Red squirrel]

Aeryk Corsaer, on 13 July 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

I was messing with builds of the Commando 'Mech and started thinking about the Community/Big Picture missions and wondered if Piranha was going to have Raids as a mission option. If they do, then in BattleTech only BattleMechs with hand actuators could grab stuff quickly in the raid. For example, something akin to the JagerMech can grab nothing (but can lay down covering fire) while a handed 'Mech could grab some stuff. Two hands are better than one but one is okay for small (comparatively speaking) loads. Holding anything precluded using that arm for weapon attacks and I think blocked torso weapons too.?

This is one example (discounting melee options) of why some BattleMech were designed with hands - especially many lighter designs commonly used in lightning raids on the enemy. In MWO, factoring something like this in the game will help offset the advantage gained by the removal of lower and hand actuators on some designs for extra critical locations. Just a thought since I do not know if Piranha has any targeting variances built into the game between 'Mechs having Full Arms or missing actuators. I know they have arm weapons track faster than torso weapons but with no rear firing, you cannot even flip your guns to the rear.

Just thought I would put my thoughts into electronic words here and see what the Community thinks...

Now that I read this I cannot live without this feature beeing implemented.
It sounds just sooooo much fun!

I think of a 12v12 match with 12 Commandos vs 12 heavy/assault mechs running into the enemy base trying to grap the target
while beeing decimated.....but one manages to get out and take the win home!

[Jaxwen]

Thorn Hallis, on 13 July 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

Sounds like a one-way Capture the Flag.

Course it doesn't have to be one way.

Could be 2 teams drop on opposing ends of a map. Supplies cache in the middle (or at multiple points) on the map. Object is to retreive supplies from the cache and return what you carry back to your LZ. At the same time battle would ensue to stop the opposing force from retrieving supplies.

The concept could be altered to move a salvaged mech or other heavy object by dragging it. Requireing at least 1 hand to drag at all and if 2 hands are used then the dragging would move faster.

Another version that comes readily to mind (and has been discussed) is to have a single object to move around like a mech sized game of "Earth Ball". I like the idea that Hand actuators should be a factor.

Red squirrel, on 13 July 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Now that I read this I cannot live without this feature beeing implemented.
It sounds just sooooo much fun!

I think of a 12v12 match with 12 Commandos vs 12 heavy/assault mechs running into the enemy base trying to grap the target
while beeing decimated.....but one manages to get out and take the win home!

The more I think about it, I agree with you. Seems like a obvious must have, right?