197 replies to this topic

[bLeeat]

at this point psr isnt based on skill,its based on how many games u play a day and how long u been playing this game. Most,if not all of the tier one players got tier one from playing mwo since beta or 2012. not because they played the same amount of games as everyone else and showed more skill,if anything they just played more cheese. all these new players from steam or just in general are getting a bad deal in the psr system. you mofo's should balance psr system out and reset it , lets see who gets back on top.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

bLeeat, on 10 February 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

at this point psr isnt based on skill,its based on how many games u play a day and how long u been playing this game. Most,if not all of the tier one players got tier one from playing mwo since beta or 2012. not because they played the same amount of games as everyone else and showed more skill,if anything they just played more cheese. all these new players from steam or just in general are getting a bad deal in the psr system. you mofo's should balance psr system out and reset it , lets see who gets back on top.

To be fair, they're not getting a bad deal. With how expensive some of the (nearly) mandatory modules are (think Radar Deprivation), and the cost of mastering 3 mechs, it gives them a fairly level playing field in T4 and T5 as they will rarely, if ever, be facing veterans using meta mechs that have their full complement of modules.

And to be frank, tier isn't everything. There's more fun to be had in T4 and T5 when people just derp around in whatever build they choose, without worrying about what their teammates will think.

[Unnatural Growth]

bLeeat, on 10 February 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

at this point psr isnt based on skill,its based on how many games u play a day and how long u been playing this game. Most,if not all of the tier one players got tier one from playing mwo since beta or 2012. not because they played the same amount of games as everyone else and showed more skill,if anything they just played more cheese. all these new players from steam or just in general are getting a bad deal in the psr system. you mofo's should balance psr system out and reset it , lets see who gets back on top.

Um yeah,

I'm convinced... and so articulate too.

[Revis Volek]

bLeeat, on 10 February 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

at this point psr isnt based on skill,its based on how many games u play a day and how long u been playing this game. Most,if not all of the tier one players got tier one from playing mwo since beta or 2012. not because they played the same amount of games as everyone else and showed more skill,if anything they just played more cheese. all these new players from steam or just in general are getting a bad deal in the psr system. you mofo's should balance psr system out and reset it , lets see who gets back on top.

At this point?

PSR has been a skill bar since day one, i dont think there were any secrets or lies about this. It is based on how well you do but mainly on how many games you played.

It is leaps and bounds better the ELO, you have to agree there.

But how are they getting a BAD DEAL? T5's never see T1's, T4's i also dont think see T1's only T1 will see T1-T3 and T3 and T2 play with just about everyone. How is this any worse then what we had previously? Also what will RESETTING PSR do? You mean put everyone back in T5 and watch the game die?

[MischiefSC]

Psr measures how good you are at helping your team drive wins.

The worst, most inexcusable part of psr is that it's pretty accurate. That's something many people will never excuse.

Look on YouTube for what happens when good players make smurf accounts. Almost all wins, kdr of 6+ and blowing thorough t4 into T3 shortly after cadet drops are done.

Damn it PSR. Why can't it be designed to place us where we think we belong instead of how we actually perform?

[pyrocomp]

PSR should be renamed to Pilot Value to the Team and leave any 'skill' mentioning out. The 'skill' is an arbiturary term here (ranging from complex 'includes leadership and tactics' to simple 'PPFLD precise clicking'). So if you look at it as at a Pilots Value will it be less 'bad' and more 'accurate'?

[Revis Volek]

pyrocomp, on 10 February 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

PSR should be renamed to Pilot Value to the Team and leave any 'skill' mentioning out. The 'skill' is an arbiturary term here (ranging from complex 'includes leadership and tactics' to simple 'PPFLD precise clicking'). So if you look at it as at a Pilots Value will it be less 'bad' and more 'accurate'?

Isn't a Pilots "Value" also a kin to his/her SKILL?


An UNSKILLED pilot is worth much, much less then a SKILLED one right? So id say it is pretty accurate. Semantics....

"Whats in a name?"

Edited by Revis Volek, 10 February 2016 - 05:38 PM.

[bLeeat]

Revis Volek, on 10 February 2016 - 05:29 PM, said:

At this point?

PSR has been a skill bar since day one, i dont think there were any secrets or lies about this. It is based on how well you do but mainly on how many games you played.

It is leaps and bounds better the ELO, you have to agree there.

But how are they getting a BAD DEAL? T5's never see T1's, T4's i also dont think see T1's only T1 will see T1-T3 and T3 and T2 play with just about everyone. How is this any worse then what we had previously? Also what will RESETTING PSR do? You mean put everyone back in T5 and watch the game die?

how does elo convert into the psr system? wasnt it suppose to be somethign completly diffrent? and yes exactly since day one... some people had a huge head start in psr but still like to hold it over others peoples heads

[bLeeat]

MischiefSC, on 10 February 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

Psr measures how good you are at helping your team drive wins.

The worst, most inexcusable part of psr is that it's pretty accurate. That's something many people will never excuse.

Look on YouTube for what happens when good players make smurf accounts. Almost all wins, kdr of 6+ and blowing thorough t4 into T3 shortly after cadet drops are done.

Damn it PSR. Why can't it be designed to place us where we think we belong instead of how we actually perform?

ur talking about a system that only awards damage tho. u say it measures team play? try playing light scout and see how much the psr system loves you

[pyrocomp]

Revis Volek, on 10 February 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

Isn't a Pilots "Value" also a kin to his/her SKILL?

An UNSKILLED pilot is worth much, much less then a SKILLED one right? So id say it is pretty accurate. Semantics....

"Whats in a name?"

Pilots Value includes 'skill' in it's most general usage on this forum (e.g. ability to get kills, deal and tank damage), but also it includes scouting, ability and nerve to lead a push, general team awareness (who's left behind of isn't there a pesky light eating our LRM boats or slow assaults) and will to lend a hand instead of that one additional salvo on the enemy, ability to position not only for your mech, but for a team (e.g. not only you are in a good spot, but sometimes your higher-caliber-mate gets that spot and you get a less neat spot, but the team on average is positioned better) etc. In short, teamwork and support that are somewhat despised right now as they do not produce damage on enemy mech.

Edited by pyrocomp, 10 February 2016 - 05:47 PM.

[Throe]

bLeeat, on 10 February 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

how does elo convert into the psr system? wasnt it suppose to be somethign completly diffrent? and yes exactly since day one... some people had a huge head start in psr but still like to hold it over others peoples heads

No. PSR was seeded based on actual player performance for ~8 months before it went live. No one had a "headstart". New players now have a weight applied to their first games to seed them more quickly. The accuracy comes from more games played. PSR was not seeded from Beta matches. It was not seeded from Elo rating(if we can even really call that system Elo[it wasn't Elo at all except in name]). And to be clear, PSR *is* something completely different than Elo. Elo isn't useful for team games, and as such, it was a poor match for MWO from the get go. The problem was that the developers didn't really have anything else to use when they first launched the game in Beta. So they used what was available until they came up with something better.

And yes, PSR has an inflation factor built in, but if we expect the player base to grow over time, and we do, then new players will fill up the lower brackets as more experienced players get better.

[Kyynele]

When MWO went steam, I did a naughty thing and created an alt account. It took 6 matches in trial light mech to rise from T5 to T3, with a 2 digit K/D ratio. Even if they did a reset, things would balance out pretty fast, especially with leveled up mechs.

The new players are getting a good deal in that they don't have to deal with T1 and T2 players before they're ready.

[Jman5]

bLeeat, on 10 February 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

how does elo convert into the psr system? wasnt it suppose to be somethign completly diffrent? and yes exactly since day one... some people had a huge head start in psr but still like to hold it over others peoples heads

The only games that were pre-calculated into your PSR were the matches from January 2015 to August 2015 when the system went online. None of a player's matches from 2012- 2014 were used to seed them.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

bLeeat, on 10 February 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

at this point psr isnt based on skill,its based on how many games u play a day and how long u been playing this game. Most,if not all of the tier one players got tier one from playing mwo since beta or 2012. not because they played the same amount of games as everyone else and showed more skill,if anything they just played more cheese. all these new players from steam or just in general are getting a bad deal in the psr system. you mofo's should balance psr system out and reset it , lets see who gets back on top.

Right, this explains why Impailer is Tier 1.

It's just a games counter, right?

derp.

[Davers]

MischiefSC, on 10 February 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

Psr measures how good you are at helping your team drive wins.

The worst, most inexcusable part of psr is that it's pretty accurate. That's something many people will never excuse.

Look on YouTube for what happens when good players make smurf accounts. Almost all wins, kdr of 6+ and blowing thorough t4 into T3 shortly after cadet drops are done.

Damn it PSR. Why can't it be designed to place us where we think we belong instead of how we actually perform?

Devil's Advocate here. How many players that stink put their games on Youtube? Are all tier 1 players actually 'good players'? Would all tier 1 players get 6+ kdr?

[bLeeat]

Jman5, on 10 February 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

The only games that were pre-calculated into your PSR were the matches from January 2015 to August 2015 when the system went online. None of a player's matches from 2012- 2014 were used to seed them.

are you sure? because im pretty damn sure my psr is just based off my elo. i took like a year and a hlf long break from the game. when i came back psr was a new thing and i was tier 2.

[Revis Volek]

bLeeat, on 10 February 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

how does elo convert into the psr system? wasnt it suppose to be somethign completly diffrent? and yes exactly since day one... some people had a huge head start in psr but still like to hold it over others peoples heads

Well the ones holding it over someone else's heads are the ones with a skewed understanding of what PSR is, its nothing to gloat about. Its a LACK OF LIFE meter honestly. Those with more demanding lives often have smaller epeen meters.

ELO didnt really convert into PSR, PSR is its own thing PGI made for the game (im sure they took the idea from others and surely not original, but i could be wrong) ELO tries to give the the best match by using the difference in skill rating between two players (or a team of players in some cases) as a measuring stick or predictor as to the outcome of the match. PSR uses the matches you have PLAYED and the OUTCOME as a way to place you into a bucket. ELO has buckets as well but a lot more and with much less difference between them it seems. Classes start at J and go to A then above that is Expert, Life Master, National Master and Senior Master, a total of 14 buckets with very small difference in between. ELO also shoots for a 50/50 split in W/L where PSR seems to just look for even pilot numbers and less about the predictor. But with having more even teams the W/L should take care of itself one would think.


So without knowing exactly how ELO worked here my the biggest thing I see is way fewer buckets but also a much larger skill gap between groups because there are less. This seems to make the games more even and a lot less work for the MM. Less valves to open, if you dont have players from every class present you can still make matches easily. making a 12 man out of 5 categories seems easier then 14 which im sure was mainly what they were going for. You could have gotten that from ELO i would imagine but its a system that was too convoluted for this game, ELO for Pilots PLUS ELO for mech PLUS predictor percentage and avg w/l numbers...thats a lot of math.

[Thorqemada]

PSR was measured as said based on the performance from Jan. 1st 2015 til it was implemented - everything b4 2015 did not count.
If you had many matches you would probably have a high PSR and with a few matches a low PSR.

[dario03]

bLeeat, on 10 February 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

at this point psr isnt based on skill,its based on how many games u play a day and how long u been playing this game. Most,if not all of the tier one players got tier one from playing mwo since beta or 2012. not because they played the same amount of games as everyone else and showed more skill,if anything they just played more cheese. all these new players from steam or just in general are getting a bad deal in the psr system. you mofo's should balance psr system out and reset it , lets see who gets back on top.

While I wouldn't be opposed to psr changing...How are new players getting a bad deal? You don't get anything extra for being T1. Also PSR was based on stats but they only went back a certain amount of time. So the main advantage to playing since 2012 is that you had more time to build up your inventory and skill. So wouldn't it be better if new players played against vets less often since the vets have more stuff unlocked?

[Revis Volek]

Jman5, on 10 February 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

The only games that were pre-calculated into your PSR were the matches from January 2015 to August 2015 when the system went online. None of a player's matches from 2012- 2014 were used to seed them.

This is wrong, i cant find the date but they started at X date and it goes up until your last match played. If they took tiny samples like that if would be wrong on so many levels.

PSR doesn't just take a arbitrary sample, its uses every single match you played from the start date PGI decided on (which i cant find right now...still looking)

It started JAN of 2015 and goes to your last match played, which is accurate because lots of things changed from 2012 tot eh end of 2015 like OP mechs, UP mechs, etc. So using only the past years changes (which are the most current) is in fact the most accurate way to apply these stats. Essentially when the clans dropped, the game changed and they started there data mining from there.

Edited by Revis Volek, 10 February 2016 - 06:03 PM.