86 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

I'd rather see players forced into pre-made groups of 8+ for something like their first 25 CW matches than trial restrictions.

Finishing the tutorial should be required to play the game at all. Just make hitting launch on anything without a completed tutorial have Russ dressed up like Gandalf pop up slamming his AC5 down - "You shall not pass... until you complete the tutorial."

[IraqiWalker]

Wolfways, on 25 February 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

How dare people try to have fun...

I request....no I DEMAND that everyone build their own real mech and have it inspected and rated by the current CW players before being given entry to CW!
It's only fair.

https://en.wikipedia...tio_ad_absurdum

Read up on it. That's not what the OP said. In no way, shape, or form did OP, or anyone else in here say that people shouldn't bring their weird builds to CW, and OP certainly did not say that only specific designs should be allowed entry.

His comment was mainly about having decks of 4 trial mechs (thus illustrating quite clearly that the player is very, very new to the game), shouldn't be let into CW. Basically the argument is about letting new players into CW, and how that's not a good thing for the players, or the game.

[Wildstreak]

While skill of the player matters, let's be honest.

Half the Clan Trials suck.

For people that have experience with this game, sure they can take a Clan Trial deck and do well. This is because they know how to use the Mechs and weapons, they know NOT to use the Ebon Jaguar-C (unless you are really bored and trolling) with those, "deadly," UAC2s and LRMs. They know not to constantly fire those twin ERPPCs on the Adder. They know not to always overheat the Executioner-D that I see so many do even in Quick Play. The Shadow Cat is decent, just has a bad reputation with some longtime players.

At some point we will get the new Clan Trials chosen by popular vote of the Warhawk, Ebon Jagaur (not sure which one), Shadow Cat and Mist Lynx (why?????). Then they should lock the Clan Trials to only the 8 C versions until more are made. No more overheating madness or new players sitting back with LRMs/UAC2s. They will actually have to move in and find targets to aim at. At least 4 will have jump jets for maneuvering. When the bad builds are removed, there should be some change from the sit back and LRM/UAC method used by so many new people who constantly take out the Ebon Jaguar-C I see so much of.

[meteorol]

There are plenty of guys using builds so bad you wish they would just use trials.

[sycocys]

meteorol, on 25 February 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

There are plenty of guys using builds so bad you wish they would just use trials.

It's true, I saw a single uAC5 Jaeger last night.

[DustySkunk]

sycocys, on 25 February 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

It's true, I saw a single uAC5 Jaeger last night.

That sounds like an accident. It's easy enough to do if you're swapping parts on and off mechs regularly and not paying close enough attention.

I'm guilty of that occasionally.

Regardless, there are some ridiculous builds out there for sure.

[sycocys]

It may have been an accident, but I'm going to go with the story that I made up about him loading up 23 tons of ammo for maximum damage potential. XD

Edited by sycocys, 25 February 2016 - 08:33 AM.

[Metus regem]

ThomasMarik, on 11 February 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

I have a better idea. No trials in the official tournaments.

I have a better idea, for the 100k tournament this year, make them only use trial mechs, nothing custom... really find out the good from the average that way.

IraqiWalker, on 25 February 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

https://en.wikipedia...tio_ad_absurdum

Read up on it. That's not what the OP said. In no way, shape, or form did OP, or anyone else in here say that people shouldn't bring their weird builds to CW, and OP certainly did not say that only specific designs should be allowed entry.

His comment was mainly about having decks of 4 trial mechs (thus illustrating quite clearly that the player is very, very new to the game), shouldn't be let into CW. Basically the argument is about letting new players into CW, and how that's not a good thing for the players, or the game.

Yup... I had a few matches last night, where half the team had 4 trial mechs... a lot of Cat A1's..... with LRMs and SRM's....

[Hydrocarbon]

I've see people with 4 mastered mechs do less than 1k DMG consistently & know people who can pull 2k+ with a partial trial deck. I even know one guy who managed 3k with a full clan trial deck.

Metus regem's sig says it all: There are no bad mechs, only bad pilots pilots that do not understand that mech. Sorting by trial mechs won't help much.

Edited by Hydrocarbon, 25 February 2016 - 10:12 AM.

[p4r4g0n]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 February 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

The sad thing is that terribad noobs can reach tier 3 easily, just grinding that xp bar.
I assume a lot of steamers already reached tier 3.

Granted but then again the point here surely is not to restrict CW to Tier 1's but to prevent absolute newbies from jumping into CW.

[Sandpit]

Willard Phule, on 25 February 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

Prerequisites, like making them complete their Cadet mission or even successfully completing the tutorial is a start, but it still doesn't address that PGI has set up CW as a kindergarten for new players.

Really they haven't.

Not a single thing in CW has changed or been geared towards newer players so I don't understand your logic on this one. Other than the upcoming split, PGI has never done anything to "dumb" down CW for new players that I've seen.

Some on here are a little too "elitist" for their own good and act like new players are these mindless idiots who couldn't pick their nose much less a mech.

It's got so much less to do with player experience and mech selection in CW and more to do with the mentality a player comes in with. Players who come in, realize it's a team game and they're going to have to use some coordination tend to do fairly well regardless of experience or mechs.

I'll take a few new players in trial mechs who understand that concept over Tier 1 "vets" in "meta" builds any day of the week and do just fine with them

Metus regem, on 25 February 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

I have a better idea, for the 100k tournament this year, make them only use trial mechs, nothing custom... really find out the good from the average that way.




Yup... I had a few matches last night, where half the team had 4 trial mechs... a lot of Cat A1's..... with LRMs and SRM's....

good times btw!

<o we had a blast playing against you guys last night

[Metus regem]

Sandpit, on 25 February 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

good times btw!

<o we had a blast playing against you guys last night

I enjoyed playing against you Sandpit, just wish I had had a team that wasn't more than 50% trial mechs... especially that guy at the end.... SMH...

"lets take an olive drab Raven 3L ERLL sniper, and try to hide against something that is pink! They'll never see me with my ECM on!"

half the time, that PUG group wanted to go out to your LZ and try to catch you guys as you regrouped... I tried to organize a kill box for you guys to walk into...

[Sandpit]

Metus regem, on 25 February 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

I enjoyed playing against you Sandpit, just wish I had had a team that wasn't more than 50% trial mechs... especially that guy at the end.... SMH...

"lets take an olive drab Raven 3L ERLL sniper, and try to hide against something that is pink! They'll never see me with my ECM on!"

half the time, that PUG group wanted to go out to your LZ and try to catch you guys as you regrouped... I tried to organize a kill box for you guys to walk into...

lol they put up a decent fight actually, we were trying to make sure we kept it somewhat competitive and fun once we realized it would be a win for us.

The new players you had didn't seem to do bad at all honestly. They were just a little outmatched, we didn't have many new players on in that group with us last night so it was a fairly experienced PUG of players we were dropping with and we'd been in a stable group for about 3 hours prior to that so we had gotten used to playing together by that point.

I did notice a few of them seemed to just kinda blindly charge in on their own though.

[Metus regem]

Sandpit, on 25 February 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

lol they put up a decent fight actually, we were trying to make sure we kept it somewhat competitive and fun once we realized it would be a win for us.

The new players you had didn't seem to do bad at all honestly. They were just a little outmatched, we didn't have many new players on in that group with us last night so it was a fairly experienced PUG of players we were dropping with and we'd been in a stable group for about 3 hours prior to that so we had gotten used to playing together by that point.

I did notice a few of them seemed to just kinda blindly charge in on their own though.

Yea, that was 'casue I try to keep them in formation... we were just getting the kill box set up, for your second push, I was up on a hill with my RFL-3N(S), pelting you guys as you came in the gate... but once it hit 37-20(ish) I stopped trying to get them to do anything and just had fun with my Hammer's, bagged a Victor in close with my Black Widow.

[Sandpit]

Metus regem, on 25 February 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

Yea, that was 'casue I try to keep them in formation... we were just getting the kill box set up, for your second push, I was up on a hill with my RFL-3N(S), pelting you guys as you came in the gate... but once it hit 37-20(ish) I stopped trying to get them to do anything and just had fun with my Hammer's, bagged a Victor in close with my Black Widow.

Were you also in the one where they set up that killbox on the left and we went right and had Omega all but dead on our first wave? they went like all assaults and then set themselves up in the corner next to the gate so we just blew past them and took out the objectives lol

[Metus regem]

Sandpit, on 25 February 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

Were you also in the one where they set up that killbox on the left and we went right and had Omega all but dead on our first wave? they went like all assaults and then set themselves up in the corner next to the gate so we just blew past them and took out the objectives lol

Nope, I asked for someone to scout the B3 gate, when no-one moved in that direction I did it my self, in my RFL-LK... by the time I saw the red blips, you guys were already in our back pocket, and I was going as fast as I could to get back... after that I tried to get a little more organization going.

[Sandpit]

Metus regem, on 25 February 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

Nope, I asked for someone to scout the B3 gate, when no-one moved in that direction I did it my self, in my RFL-LK... by the time I saw the red blips, you guys were already in our back pocket, and I was going as fast as I could to get back... after that I tried to get a little more organization going.

If you have a lot of new players or are trying to train some friends let me know next time and I'll be more than happy to help offer them some tips as well. Hearing it from the opponent sometimes helps avoid the whole "you're just a tryhard telling me what to do" mentalities.

[Metus regem]

Sandpit, on 25 February 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

If you have a lot of new players or are trying to train some friends let me know next time and I'll be more than happy to help offer them some tips as well. Hearing it from the opponent sometimes helps avoid the whole "you're just a tryhard telling me what to do" mentalities.

It was my first Davion Wednesday Night Warfare event... I'll try to do more, with HHGD in the future, provided life lets me.

[Wolfways]

IraqiWalker, on 25 February 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

https://en.wikipedia...tio_ad_absurdum

Read up on it. That's not what the OP said. In no way, shape, or form did OP, or anyone else in here say that people shouldn't bring their weird builds to CW, and OP certainly did not say that only specific designs should be allowed entry.

Not sure how you got that from my post. I never said anything about builds, or are you referring to where I said "real mech", i.e. real as in not in game but in real life?

Quote

His comment was mainly about having decks of 4 trial mechs (thus illustrating quite clearly that the player is very, very new to the game), shouldn't be let into CW. Basically the argument is about letting new players into CW, and how that's not a good thing for the players, or the game.

And my point was that there should be no restriction to CW entry as CW should be the game. Imo quick play is just a live testing ground and if it wasn't for the fact that my pc is very old and crashes a lot when I play CW I would never play quick play again except for events, so saying players should be restricted to quick play is the same as saying new players should not be allowed to play the game.

[IraqiWalker]

Wolfways, on 25 February 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

Not sure how you got that from my post. I never said anything about builds, or are you referring to where I said "real mech", i.e. real as in not in game but in real life?

I took your post to mean that only builds approved by the OP should be allowed in CW.

Wolfways, on 25 February 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

And my point was that there should be no restriction to CW entry as CW should be the game. Imo quick play is just a live testing ground and if it wasn't for the fact that my pc is very old and crashes a lot when I play CW I would never play quick play again except for events, so saying players should be restricted to quick play is the same as saying new players should not be allowed to play the game.

I understand, and I completely disagree with that. Every game out there uses a gating system for a reason. It allows the new player to get acclimated, before getting clobbered. Especially in a game like MWO where in CW there is no MM to ensure that you face only players of your skill bracket.


Yes, some new players end up being awesome, and do rather well, but if we had gating, they'd still be awesome, and do well, in fact, they'd probably improve. With gating, the new players that don't even understand why their MLs don't deal damage at 1000 meters, or MGs can't hit anything at 500 meters (i've seen in in CW), won't get beaten to death.

Considering the amount of customization we can do to our mechs, I think it's reasonable to add some form of gating (like finish 100 matches, or have 4 basic'd mechs ... or something, other than just letting them in on day one, when they struggle to see where their legs are pointing, or not know how to turn off 3PV, or that arm lock is a thing). League of Legends has almost no customization to it's champions (yes, I know runes and mastery pages exist, but that's a cake walk), and they still don't let you get into competitive play until you're level 30, which will take a few hundred games for most players.

I don't think we need that level of gating, but we do need some gating.