81 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

The Atlas Overlord, on 13 February 2016 - 01:40 AM, said:

1) Equip 2 flamers and your normal weapons

2) Fire flamers on chainfire... so that you take literally zero heat...but your enemy heats up like they're firing a medium laser every single second.

3) Laugh as they overheat the second they try to shoot back.

4) When they overheat, stop shooting flamer and cool off while your team Roflstomps the helpless mech.

5) Repeat.

Yep, no problem there at all.

I am aware, I'll also be testing.

FupDup, on 13 February 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

Call it a hunch, but I've got a funny feeling that Flamers might end up getting nerfed in 1-2 patches after this one...

If they'd have gone my route...20 times their planed damage...this probably wouldn't have happened.


I find it weird how we have completely polar feelings on how the Flamers should work.
I wonder who's pulling the strings on this change.

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 13 February 2016 - 11:19 AM, said:

I wonder who's pulling the strings on this change.

I hope it's not the man who shall not be named, or else we're really in trouble...

[sashar]

I thought that flamers have a 90% heat cap no? Also what does it mean that heat increased from 0 to 4.5? I thought the flamers already heated someone up?

[FupDup]

sashar, on 13 February 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

I thought that flamers have a 90% heat cap no? Also what does it mean that heat increased from 0 to 4.5? I thought the flamers already heated someone up?

The old heating method used some kind of weirdo exponential function to cause the heat. The new value of 4.5 refers to an instant increase instead of that weirdo function.

[Mcgral18]

El Bandito, on 13 February 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

But did it perform better than a 6 CSPL Arctic Cheetah in the hunter/killer team simply coring the enemy from behind while he is distracted by heavier threats?

From my testing, ~6-8 seconds to bring a mech to capacity with 6 Flamers.
~10 seconds for yourself.


IIRC
I think I made a thread...should probably consult that. Flamers aren't important enough to remember.

FupDup, on 13 February 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

The old heating method used some kind of weirdo exponential function to cause the heat. The new value of 4.5 refers to an instant increase instead of that weirdo function.

Now, the question is, constant 4.5x, or 4.5x* exponential value?

[Monkey Lover]

FupDup, on 13 February 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

Call it a hunch, but I've got a funny feeling that Flamers might end up getting nerfed in 1-2 patches after this one...

I would bet real money it will be nerfed later. People will rage like crazy if they die because of being over heated. Just look how much people still cry about lrms. The Russ's tweeter will be full on day 1.

[sashar]

FupDup, on 13 February 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

The old heating method used some kind of weirdo exponential function to cause the heat. The new value of 4.5 refers to an instant increase instead of that weirdo function.

Oh okay, now it is simple to understand. Maybe now light mechs with 2 energy points can be useful as a stunning mech. But the mechs will still have to get into 90 m and have to not be vaporized by a big alpha. Will be interesting to see, thats for sure.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 13 February 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

Call it a hunch, but I've got a funny feeling that Flamers might end up getting nerfed in 1-2 patches after this one...

Well, we'd have to consider the more common cases (18-19 DHS on most larger IS mech and some lesser Clan mechs - and the 20+ on Timberwolf and bigger Clan mechs) and do some #s.

Then again, the Flamer heat to yourself is more likely to still be there in hilarious fashion.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

sashar, on 13 February 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

Oh okay, now it is simple to understand. Maybe now light mechs with 2 energy points can be useful as a stunning mech. But the mechs will still have to get into 90 m and have to not be vaporized by a big alpha. Will be interesting to see, thats for sure.

Right, like getting into range is hard for a light.

What a joke.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

eh, flamers are SUPPOSED to be a threat

maybe this could make people start fitting the essentially completely worthless Streaks :-)
(can we get those fixed any time this century? cuz theyre kinda dead weight atm)

[sashar]

The Atlas Overlord, on 13 February 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

Right, like getting into range is hard for a light.

What a joke.

Sure with regular weapons it may be easy, but this is the flamer. You have to practically have to be touching to get under its range. You would also need to be facing the enemy at all times to apply the heat, which is not good for a light. Of course all that heat in a second may render that point moot, which is why I am excited to see how the flamer will play out.

[Mavairo]

It's about damn time. Now if they can make the MG useful.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Mavairo, on 13 February 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

It's about damn time. Now if they can make the MG useful.

MG is useful, it crits like no tomorrow

[Mavairo]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 13 February 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

MG is useful, it crits like no tomorrow

No it isn't. Anything an MG does for crits, an AC10, LPL, PPC, MPL, you name it does better. Cause they do this thing called dmg.

[Livestick]

MonkeyCheese, on 12 February 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

My Troll is ready

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...450e1b6a312c407

Back when clan mechs first came out I ran one of my Novas with that exact build. I was totally ineffective, but still a lot of fun. I might have to bring it back now.

[Mcgral18]

The Atlas Overlord, on 13 February 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

Right, like getting into range is hard for a light.

What a joke.

Against people who can shoot, yes, it can be a problem.
Map and positioning depending, of course.

Mavairo, on 13 February 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

No it isn't. Anything an MG does for crits, an AC10, LPL, PPC, MPL, you name it does better. Cause they do this thing called dmg.

To add insult to injury, a Gauss with a TC1 will have a 50% chance to Crit, and WILL destroy any item it touches (bar the AC20 at 18HP)), and it can do that from 700M (whatever range it still deals 10 damage, closer to 1 KM), where the component still has 14 or less armour.

The Clam Gauss is the best Crit weapon for that reason (because TC access, longest range, fastest velocity and no issues with heat).

The Gauss can also exceed the MG in Crits...but larger TCs aren't worth it (and will not be worth it)



For reference, the MG needs 14 Crits, and has a 52% chance to Crit.

[feeWAIVER]

Firestarter with 8 flamers.
Spam 8 to generate 43 enemy heat until shutdown.
Then chain fire 2 to cook it.

[Mcgral18]

feeWAIVER, on 13 February 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

Firestarter with 8 flamers.
Spam 8 to generate 43 enemy heat until shutdown.
Then chain fire 2 to cook it.

But you cannot cook. They need to overheat themselves, and you can't actually kill them.

Those 8 Flamers deal less damage than 2 MGs. And THOSE are pathetic.



Testing will show what 2 can do, with backup SLs.


Of course, this also does nothing to stop Dual Gauss (which will be able to kill you, then they can use their E weapons again).

[Big Tin Man]

I'm going to build the 15 flamer 2x uac5 2x uac10 Dire wolf.

67.5 heat per second. The power of 1000 suns.

Fear the burning wolf.

[Mcgral18]

Big Tin Man, on 13 February 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

I'm going to build the 15 flamer 2x uac5 2x uac10 Dire wolf.

67.5 heat per second. The power of 1000 suns.

Fear the burning wolf.

Well, your mech can only mount 16 weapons, so you'll have to drop a Flamer, I'm afraid.

May also consider Dual Gauss 14 Flamer, so you never have to fear other people flaming you.