679 replies to this topic

[Deathswarrior]

I use 4 LRMA 10's on the loyalty atlas with an average of 418 dmg a game so I don't see why there is a problem with playing what you like...

[MeanFacedJohnny]

MY AS7S, which I was rocking 4 lrm 10 artemis and 4 med lasers for the longest time, has a 417 damage average. Higher than my D-DC with less lrms.

I don't know I just thought it was interesting.

edit: deathswarrior's got it lol.

Edited by MeanFacedJohnny, 14 February 2016 - 01:57 PM.

[VinJade]

Dragon regardless of what you may or may believe is harassment it is, and nothing you say will change that, and I posted the meaning of the word and had put it in bold letters as well.

but in the end thin or thick skin it matters not, a meaning and the way taken is what counts.

also I am sure you had seen a few pages back where we had an actual player threaten to TK them if they ever run across them in game.

So what would you call that hmm?

anyways the point is let people play the way they wish as long as they are not TKing(which is against the rules by the way) then more power to them.

I use an LRM Stalker, that is a fire support meant to lob Missiles over things to hit the enemy, it is the mech's main role, where the Atlas does not truly have a set role regardless of what others say or believe.

The Atlas is able to damage at all ranges which is a good thing as it is more or less useless out of range of of its other weapons even their Precious SRMs.

sure Assaults can weather most LRM fire up to a point but even the 'mighty' Atlas can fall to LRM fire if there is enough of them.

Edited by VinJade, 14 February 2016 - 01:59 PM.

[Amsro]

Creating a thread telling people to not tell you what to do has it's own kind LOL factor.

That aside, I build all my variants of all my chassis differently, and I do end up with some LRM builds, I like em, I troll and lol and have fun.

But I won't argue if someone tells me I'm gimping my team. Probably right, ah well. Good thing death in the matrix doesn't kill your vessel on this plane.

TL DR; do as you will and ignore the rest.

We are only victims of words if we choose to be. So, be happy I say!!

Edited by Amsro, 14 February 2016 - 02:00 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 14 February 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

As much as I see your points for most of your post, I'm going to have to disagree with this on the basis of experience. I've been in matches where one player or another (occasionally me, more frequently others) has been derided for their 'mech build during a match as soon as allies deciphered the weapons loadout, and then turned out to do well. Those same people never apologize or take back their objections or insults (although at least some of them, I suspect, disconnected from match as soon as they died and did not wait for the results screen).

In fact, I'd like to point out that there's a difference between disagreeing with a build or making a single complaint, and insulting a player for having or trying that build- the latter being the specific thing both that the OP is referring to, and that I would argue most strongly needs to be removed from the mentality of this game's player group.

It's one thing to go 'Oh wow, that Atlas has only two PPCs for armament and you hugged the enemy? You should reconsider your build.'

It's another thing to keep commenting on it during the match, insulting the player, and generally going on beyond reason about how bad it is. Far too many players take it well beyond the point of a single complaint or comment and turn it into a personal attack against the person who has either made a mistake or just brought something the attacker personally disagrees with as a 'mech build.

I totally get what you're saying here... but we're not talking about one bad player repeatedly calling out the OP in a match... we're talking about the player being repeatedly called out by different players over many matches. Now, I tend not to bring crappy builds, and have only rarely ever received negative comments on my play, so I honestly cannot speak to being on the receiving end of negative comments in this game. BUT... generally speaking if I'd have received the same comments from multiple people, I'd tend to at least consider the veracity of those comments and make adjustments as is necessary.

I think the crux of your argument is that there's a more tactful way to "suggest" to the OP that he make a change, and that if he chooses not to make a change away from factors that negatively affect his teammates, the team should just sorta... accept that. I wholely agree with the first part, but won't agree with the second. To expect 11 people to bare the burden of the 12th is unfair.

Your argument also seems to hinge on the idea that the OP would not have fun if he played his D-DC with a different build, or if he played a similar build on a different mech. That he MUST play THIS build on THIS mech to have fun. I think this is not at all the case, as he seems to have expressed to be perfectly capable of enjoying more standard brawling Atlai. So would he suddenly have a terrible time playing MWO if he were to use a more effective Atlas build? Or playing his preferred D-DC build on a mech more suited to it? Obviously not. In this case, we're looking at a fairly arbitrary choice on the part of the OP that has a negative impact on the team and has little positive impact on his own enjoyment. One could easily argue then, and rightly so, that the OP might actually enjoy things more if he were to use more effective builds. How would be counter that argument then? By saying it's his choice to enjoy or not enjoy? It's rather circular.

Deathswarrior, on 14 February 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

I use 4 LRMA 10's on the loyalty atlas with an average of 418 dmg a game so I don't see why there is a problem with playing what you like...

Because that's really bad output for that mech?

[sashar]

Sure, you can run whatever you want. The point is, everyone else has just as much as a right to call out your bad build and doing well in a bad build does not amount to much. That build will still be bad, and you can have a higher score trying anything else.

Like FupDup said, as long as you are aware that your build is sub-optimal and not trying to convince yourself your build rocks.

It does not even have to be a meta mech. Just try not to use too many bad weapons, this may include machine guns, small lasers, erppc's without quirks, lrms.

[MrMadguy]

Fist of all. OP, don't listen to this guys. They say, that we should "adapt and improve", but they can't adapt to game changes by themselves. Yeah, there was a time, when LRMs were overnerfed - everybody and their grannies had ECM God modes. This was a time, when I was boating SRMs to everything, I could. But game has changed - LRMs were buffed. And currently SRMs - are complete garbage, same as LBX. Nobody would let you get close enough to use SRMs, especially on Assault 'Mech. I had EBJ-C SRM boat - piece of crap. Changed it to LRM boat. All my SRM 'Mechs feel crappy in comparison with LRM ones. With LRMs you can farm free dmg, kills, CBs, XP and Match Score. And of course suppress your enemies. If they attack you - use your primary weapon. If they try to run away - send LRM rain to their backs. Also LRMs can be used separately from your other weapons - so they are good support for hot builds.

Second thing. This is standard "elitists vs casuals" discussion. It's used up to holes on other games' forums. Gamedevs have a choice: whether they want to cater to 1% of elitists, who prevent new players from coming into this game, or to 99% casuals, who are the main source of money. Usually it should be compromise. Cater to elitists - and they will use your game as their personal tool to amuse their ego. Cater to casuals - and game will be too dumbed down and boring. Casual - doesn't mean bad player. He just doesn't treat video game and virtual pixels serious enough to put his life into it. The best solution - to separate them. Elitists have their CW and Group queue. Pug queue should be for casuals only. As simple as that. Deal with it or find friends and play private matches on maps, you want, and in 'Mech/Builds, you think are good.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 February 2016 - 02:21 PM.

[Pardo Kerensky]

[ScarecrowES]

MrMadguy, on 14 February 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

snip

EBJ as a LRM boat? <facepalm>

"It's ok... they always say my build is bad too... but we won't listen, will we?"

[XFellDragonX]

VinJade, on 14 February 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

Dragon regardless of what you may or may believe is harassment it is, and nothing you say will change that, and I posted the meaning of the word and had put it in bold letters as well.

but in the end thin or thick skin it matters not, a meaning and the way taken is what counts.

also I am sure you had seen a few pages back where we had an actual player threaten to TK them if they ever run across them in game.

So what would you call that hmm?

anyways the point is let people play the way they wish as long as they are not TKing(which is against the rules by the way) then more power to them.

I use an LRM Stalker, that is a fire support meant to lob Missiles over things to hit the enemy, it is the mech's main role, where the Atlas does not truly have a set role regardless of what others say or believe.

The Atlas is able to damage at all ranges which is a good thing as it is more or less useless out of range of range of its other weapons even their Precious SRMs.

sure Assaults can weather most LRM fire up to a point but even the 'mighty' Atlas can fall to LRM fire if there is enough of them.

By the definition of the Atlus you're giving me technically very mech is a "Jack of all trades" certain mech have roles, he'll look at the quirks doesn't the D-DC have SRM quirks? To encourage the use of SRMs?

On your first point, it isn't a threat unless you feel threatened, and of you feel threatened by someone SAYING they're gonna TK you, frankly you need to grow up, sorry if that sounds a tad harsh but everyone these days are so damn squishy.

Ultimatum. I have a RIGHT to criticize your build, I can do that whenever I want, on the other side... IGNORE IT! Or defend your point, it's the Internet I don't know you neither do know me, point is stop acting so self righteous, I can criticize whoever is want in turn they can ignore me.

Freedom of speech my friend.
Next time OP don't complain about criticism on a OBJECTIVELY subpar build.

If take a flamer mounted Jenner out on the field I'm gonna get criticism because that build is bad, same with Lurm Atlus.

Peace folks.

[Commander A9]

There's a right way, and a wrong way.

A heat-efficient way, and a hot-as-hell-till-you-blow-up way.

There's the winning way, and a losing way.

It all depends on how you want to win, or lose.

[VinJade]

I think what it just comes down to is as Guy said its elitists Vs. Causal players.
and its hard to find a good in between for the two.
.

[MrMadguy]

ScarecrowES, on 14 February 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

EBJ as a LRM boat? <facepalm>

"It's ok... they always say my build is bad too... but we won't listen, will we?"

You know. I usually don't like to change my builds. But when you can't earn enough XPs to level this 'Mech up in this build - you just have no choice. SRM boat - is complete garbage, sorry. All my Atlas builds were made, when LRMs were nerfed. They are all SRM boats. But after leveling my Highlanders and King Crabs, that are 50% SRM boats/50% LRM boats, I started thinking about changing all my 'Mechs back into LRM boats. And only to have diverse builds I follow the simple rule: if build isn't hot - I boat SRMs, if it's hot - LRMs. That's why all my Battlemasters and Maulers all would be LRM boats, if I wouldn't have quit this game.

[TexAce]

Insulting is reportable and bannable.

@OP just be better than the rest every match, enough for you to know it works.

Edited by TexAce, 14 February 2016 - 02:19 PM.

[VinJade]

Dragon
In any case it his build and if there are those that don't like it then they can keep it too themselves unless they for some reason lack the ability to do so.. and if that's the case don't use the mic or keyboard and tell it to the screen.

Edited by VinJade, 14 February 2016 - 02:24 PM.

[MrMadguy]

This game simply lacks good skill level separation. Casuals should play with casuals. Elitist should play with elitists. Not everybody wants to be like Messi in football or like Michael Jordan In basketball. PSR XP Bar just kills all the purpose of MM, as skill separation tool. I should play, where I belong to, not where devs want me to force to.

[XFellDragonX]

VinJade, on 14 February 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Dragon
In any case it his build and if there are those that don't like it then they can keep it too themselves unless they lack the mental ability to do so....

In that case keep what you're saying to yourself, lmao you see how dumb that logic is?

Let's just silence all differing opinions right guys?

[ScarecrowES]

MrMadguy, on 14 February 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

You know. I usually don't like to change my builds. But when you can't earn enough XPs to level this 'Mech up in this build - you just have no choice. SRM boat - is complete garbage, sorry. All my Atlas builds were made, when LRMs were nerfed. They are all SRM boats. But after leveling my Highlanders and King Crabs, that are 50% SRM boats/50% LRM boats, I started thinking about changing all my 'Mechs back into LRM boats. And only to have diverse builds I follow the simple rule: if build isn't hot - I boat SRMs, if it's hot - LRMs. That's why all my Battlemasters and Maulers all would be LRM boats, if I wouldn't have quit this game.

There are a couple of very effective builds that work well for this mech. Ultimately, it comes down to focusing on the strengths of the chassis, which are in high-mount ballistics and energy as primary/c-primary weapons, and just the sheer number of energy slots.

You really can't go wrong with putting 2x CLPL in those high-mount left torso slots, and filling up on as many medium/small standard and pulse lasers as you dare mount. I keep my heat rating over 1.2 on this build even though I get the standard ghost heat penalty for having more than 6 smaller lasers on the mech. If I live the whole match, it's hard not to have 800+ damage games with this build. Hell, just the 26 damage from the LPLs is endless fun since those lasers are mounted so high. Otherwise, you can run the various ballistic/laser builds. I know it's all terribly meta, but really these are the most effective. EBJs are very squishy up close, so you don't usually want to invest in SRMs too much... but you're still better off with SRMs and lasers than LRMs if you're actually concerned about scoring.

[Wild Pegasus]

VinJade, on 14 February 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

Sam the thing is the Atlas is a basic jack of all trades and not really a master of any and it should be treated as such.
also those that like to do the bland cookie cutter all energy thing will be hit this next patch with the range nerf for energy weapons across the board.

besides unless the sucker is mounting all energy/Ballistic style weapons that give it range it would be then to slow to get in close for those srms people seem to have a love relationship with not to mention the large bore ACs.

Yes, if you don't have your team backing you up then a brawler isn't going to survive enough to get into its operating range. But if your team is too timid or disorganized to move up and engage in a timely manner, you've got far bigger problems on your hands and a couple tons of LRMs aren't going to solve it.

The Atlas might be a jack of all trades in TT, but in MWO it's been tuned to serve best as a front line brawler that can get in a slugging match with another assault and still come out on top. That's a role a vast majority of mechs just can't do very well and not maximizing those strengths feels like wasted potential.

[G3TxWr3cK3r3D]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 14 February 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

You talked down to him in your first fallacy related post when you called him 'boy' at the end of your sentence and opened with 'try', rather than saying 'Make an argument against what I'm actually saying, not my name.'

You then proceeded to call 'you people' (possibly me and others, possibly those previously arguing with you) 'hard headed', when there was no reason to do so.

In both cases, you were adding insults towards those you were arguing with, which are not actual arguments with their positions.

The oness was not upon me to make any argument, when dealing with someone who only argued by fallcy. If I lace my argument, which was legitmate, in that I called out a person for their inability to make an argument, with a small jab back, then so what. Why don't lecture the person who only insults?