679 replies to this topic

[Dahkoht]

JC Daxion, on 15 February 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

this thread is insane..


It's called a PUG, and Pugs are for casual fun time play.. for people to level mechs, to try things out, and learn the game.. If you wan't to play with Pro's Join a unit and play with pro's

Especially considering the OP clearly stated in his first post, or an early post.. i didn't bother to read all 28 pages, i got the jist after one.... He is Tier 3.. Just like me in fact.

That means i will be on teams that people have never even dropped in a trial mech, Or i can end up on teams that people are teir 1's in meta mechs. Some times i beat those top guys, others they beat me. But i always try my best no mater what i am playing, and i like to have fun. So if i wanna drop in my Spider with a pair of MPL's i am going to.

It's a game, and some people can totally suck at an FPS, i don't care what mech they are driving. I have seen and killed more meta mechs that don't even register 50 damage than i can count. (then again i have gotten killed in them myself if i am having a bad day.) But just because you suck, does not mean you shouldn't be able to play.. And if someone that sucks has a right to play, so do all those that can do well in non-conventional builds

some people play with their kids, some kids get there old man to play or mom,, or even sister. Not everyone is a great player, Nor should they have to be to have fun. So like i said.. Deal with PUG's, and what they are, Or better yet NEVER PUG, and go play with a Unit, cause i know i get sick of hearing how great some people are, or listen to them rage if they die, or the team does not do what they want. (granted i have gotten annoyed at times with people doing dumb things, but i try to take a breath, and typically say,, tonight's not my night, and go do something else.


OP: i will take a guy like you that knows how to play, and has fun playing, and trys to win, no mater what they are running.. verse so many people that have posted nothing but hate, or trying to justify there elites positions.

It seams like a many people should never being playing PUG's .It's not a bad build that makes this game toxic, its the people that drive it.



but for the record, i just wouldn't play a LRM atlas, for me, i go with stalkers,, though an awesome might be worth doing as well. I have seen these mechs do quite well with them. Not to mention they are high on the list for re-sizing which is very nice

Edited by Dahkoht, 15 February 2016 - 05:26 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

pyrocomp, on 15 February 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

OP stated to have meta-Atlases also. Stated he play them. Stated that he perform better in that LRM build. So where if falls in you diagram? That 'I tried those proposed 'better' builds but still do better in mine own build'. Should he undermine team using community-approved build with degraded performance or help the team with a not-approved mech with a better overall performance?

Given that he's underperforming for the chassis in his chosen build (again, 300-600 damage is not good for an Atlas), and the build he touts in this topic is the version he seems most comfortable with, I'd have to ask, then, why he underperforms and/or is unhappy playing more traditional and effective builds for the Atlas.

Does a close-range brawler simply not fit into his particular accumen and sensibilities? Brawling's not for everyone. It's a difficult skill to learn, and forcing yourself to conform to that standard can be a painful trail to follow.

Does he simply feel more comfortable at range? Does he not like the responsibility that comes from being an assault at the spearhead of a push? Or perhaps he just really LIKES both Atlai AND LRMs, and simply wants to experience those two things together?

Honestly, we don't know the WHY of it. I could categorize him better, of course, if I knew.

What I CAN say, however, is that "I do better in a bad build than I do in a good build" is not much of an excuse. What this tells me is that the player either lacks the skills required to play that particular mech effectively in the traditional role, or has focused too much on learning skills to overcome the inherent badness of the bad build. Either way, your best investment here is either focusing on learning to use the better build better, or switching to a chassis that plays his preferred role better. Either way, his results will be improved.

Personally, I can attest to the fact that there ARE builds out there that work very well in limited use that feature both LRMs and other viable long/short range weapon combos. Hell, I have a Warhawk-B with 3 lurms, 2 LPLs and 2 MPLs. That fits right into the wheelhouse of what the OP seems to want. The difference is, of course, that my Warhawk is capable of consistantly putting up 1000+ damage games, with 3-4 kills per match. Otherwise, it has the lurms... it has the long range lasers, it has the short range back-ups.

But it's just better arrainged overall. It's a lot faster. It's better optimized. And it can bring all the weapons to bare at a better variety of ranges with no gap in coverage. It's simply more effective. It's also one of two mechs in my stable that I'd ever dare run LRMs on. The other? A Catapult C1. That build? LRMs with long and short range lasers mounted in the torso, same as the Warhawk. Are these meta builds? Hell no! Are they effective? Undeniably. But these are mechs DESIGNED to support. These are not front line pushers I'm using these builds on. One pushers I use pushing builds. The OP would probably do better if he used a different build on his Atlas and learned to use it well... or use his build on a proper mech for it. This is a suggestion many have made in this thread... though some less than tactfully.

[BigFatGator]

Jeezuz... if i followed the opinion of the some folks in this thread, I'm clearly gimping my team by dropping in anything but a 3xUAC5 JM6-DD, because objectively this mech fits my playstyle better than any other and is my highest average damage and KDR by a good bit.

But it bores me. So I play other mechs. Sometimes I play Orions. Or even lights. Or (gasp) even clam mechs now. Even though objectively I'd be doing better for my team taking the mech I do best in 100% of the time.

Does that make me a douche? Really?
The OP might do better in the standard AC20, 3ASRM6, 2ML STD 350 with ECM mech than what he posted. Maybe not. But as long as he doesn't hopelessly suck (<150 dmg match after match) then I'm happy to see him on my team in a PUG.

Edited by BigFatGator, 15 February 2016 - 05:40 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Dahkoht, on 15 February 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

I just enjoying pointing out the idiots who think it's ok to get upset over a video game. Am I being hostile to anyone who thinks its ok to yell at someone like the OP in voice chat ? Absolutely.

They deserve to have their silliness in regarding MWO as a "competitive sport" and acting like an *** being ok ridiculed.

Oh , I even let my 4 year old daughter sit in my lap and push the enter button for LRM locks when she wants to watch "the robot game". I bet you just bit your tongue in anger over that idea. Imaging the idea of a parent letting their little kid participate in your holy Olympic life and death sport. Blasphemy.

Tier 2 , about to be tier 1 , and I cannot wait to see the 4 year old hit a button and kill the "competitive sport professionals" bragging on themselves and berating others for choosing to play their own way.

Oh yes , MWO is serious competitive skill.

I just think that people who expect to have fun at the expense of other people are selfish *******. Perhaps, I think, your 4-year old will learn better character from her mother. I'd have her focus on integrity. It's a tough one to learn. Best to start early.

Also, if you're merely out to get your jollies over blowing mechs apart, but don't like the whole "playing nicely with others" responsibility... there are a number of single-player Mechwarrior titles out there. You need never play with another human being ever again. Seriously. No queuing for matches. Play when you want how you want. The AI doesn't even care if you suck, or how hard you troll. Hell, I think they even got Mechwarrior 2 to work on cell phones. Very casual-friendly there.

[JC Daxion]

ScarecrowES, on 15 February 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

Given that he's underperforming for the chassis in his chosen build (again, 300-600 damage is not good for an Atlas),

I find that very untrue... A good team match can have mechs that cap out at 350-400,, with some barely breaking 200, and it be a 12-0 roll.. Some times those assaults tanked damage, while a light or medium rolled in the damage.. you just can't take blanket numbers and say, X happened. LRM's spread damage.. Ok.. well maybe it spread damage to the side i was on, and i got an open torso to hit.. that direct fire weapon could of been pounding on the left side,, and i would have had full armor from my position for example. So that damage spread helped me get a kill.

If you are pulling 600-700-800+ either A, other people on your team are not doing their Job, Or the people on the other team totally suck.. Or maybe you had an amazing game, because that can happen too..

But often it comes down to D, you are just farming a 100 ton assault for damage... 150 damage can take down any assault.. But at the same time you can do 500 and still have a fully weapon ed assault sitting there.


I do have to ask, how often do you really play PUG's.. Because often just getting them to move is like trying to push a mule.. So many matches i load up a brawler, and then everyone wants to play the peak-poke at 800m for 90% of the game.. At least having some longer range weapons you can do something other than stick your thumb up your butt waiting for people to find First gear.

Maybe the people that want to play peak and poke are the ones ruining my time, or the ones that only pick skirmish, Or never play polar.. Pugs are a crap shoot.. and i don't care if someone has their 4 year old playing.. Or their grand mother.. If i wanted a pro team, i'd join one.. I don't, which is why i pug..

So many of my most fun matches have come down to the wire, pug'in. The worst ones are the ones with elitest yelling about how we are all noobs, and need to learn to play.. get the trend?

Edited by JC Daxion, 15 February 2016 - 05:52 PM.

[Dahkoht]

ScarecrowES, on 15 February 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

I just think that people who expect to have fun at the expense of other people are selfish *******. Perhaps, I think, your 4-year old will learn better character from her mother. I'd have her focus on integrity. It's a tough one to learn. Best to start early.

Also, if you're merely out to get your jollies over blowing mechs apart, but don't like the whole "playing nicely with others" responsibility... there are a number of single-player Mechwarrior titles out there. You need never play with another human being ever again. Seriously. No queuing for matches. Play when you want how you want. The AI doesn't even care if you suck, or how hard you troll. Hell, I think they even got Mechwarrior 2 to work on cell phones. Very casual-friendly there.

Oh her mother thinks it's cute , she also thinks anyone who takes video games as "skilled competitive sports" , or thinks anything in a video game "matters" deserves to be made fun of too.

She'd rather our 4 year think games are about fun , and never anything to yell at anyone about.

Because they don't "matter".

Imagine that.

You seem ok with yelling and getting upset over a video game , maybe you need to learn the play nicely rule , as that one pretty much trumps all others.

Edited by Dahkoht, 15 February 2016 - 05:50 PM.

[JC Daxion]

Dahkoht, on 15 February 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

Oh her mother thinks it's cute , she also thinks anyone who takes video games as "skilled competitive sports" , or thinks anything in a video game "matters" deserves to be made fun of too.

E-sports are serious business.... (so no need to make fun of folks that like their E-sports.. More people watched the LoL finals, than the world series.. i know, shocking but true.


PUG's are NOT E-sports.. (for some reason people just don't get that.. I dunno why, but they don't)



To me, the most important thing about games is to have fun, and be nice to others.. there is room for both casual online players, and Top comp,, and everything in between..

[Dahkoht]

JC Daxion, on 15 February 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

E-sports are serious business.... (so no need to make fun of folks that like their E-sports.. More people watched the LoL finals, than the world series.. i know, shocking but true.


PUG's are NOT E-sports.. (for some reason people just don't get that.. I dunno why, but they don't)



To me, the most important thing about games is to have fun, and be nice to others.. there is room for both casual online players, and Top comp,, and everything in between..

Oh that was exactly my original point , that the OP was talking about solo pug queues , yet the pro-bro's had to rage and say that that was serious business competitive too.

That it's understandable and acceptable to lose your cool and yell at someone in a solo pug queue in MWO for bringing an Atlas with an LRM.

Honestly I don't think anything in a video game ever "matters" , much less enough to yell at someone for how they want to play , but trying justify it being ok to yell and berate someone in voice chat over choosing to outfit their mech a certain way just is plain silly to me.

[JC Daxion]

i know.. and that is why i need to take breaks at times.. when i find myself frustrated and wanting to yell it is time to go play Crusader kings,,, Then i go and pillage England and Wales, taking my frustration out on Wessex or Cornwall and all is right in the world..


But builds rarely get me steamed.. It's the people that wanna snipe all day (ohh wait, that is a build issue, ), while I'm loaded up in my brawler saying.... W, press W ARRRRRRRRRRRR

Yup time to go pillage England........

Edited by JC Daxion, 15 February 2016 - 06:13 PM.

[Mole]

I can't believe this debate is even happening. I mean seriously. PUG matches are not competetive matches. That is what group queue is for. That is what CW is for. PUG matches are for you to bring whatever the bleeding hell you want to bring and people complaining about a human beings basic freedom of god damn choice is frankly absurd.

[Ghogiel]

Distinct lack of gifs in this thread.

[ScarecrowES]

Dahkoht, on 15 February 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

Oh that was exactly my original point , that the OP was talking about solo pug queues , yet the pro-bro's had to rage and say that that was serious business competitive too.

That it's understandable and acceptable to lose your cool and yell at someone in a solo pug queue in MWO for bringing an Atlas with an LRM.

Honestly I don't think anything in a video game ever &quot;matters&quot; , much less enough to yell at someone for how they want to play , but trying justify it being ok to yell and berate someone in voice chat over choosing to outfit their mech a certain way just is plain silly to me.

You had a point somewhere in all this? Cuz really you've mostly been a troll.

Like I said... character. Try some.

If you're not interested in the experience of the other players on the team, why have you chosen to play a team game?

I mean, this seems contradictory. If you are only interested in what you want, and damn anyone else if what you want conflicts what everyone else wants, then why play with other people at all? There are literally hundreds of games out there you could play that don't require that you're in a position where 11 other people depend on you.

You're choosing to play THIS game... a team competition game. But you're not interested in team play or competing? I mean... its bad enough to waste the time of 11 other people, but why waste YOUR OWN playing a game you don't even want to play?

To be an insufferable troll? To "tee hee" your way to ruining the experience of 11 other people who are more than likely here with the limited time they have, probably after a long day of work, unwinding in the last hours of the days... seeking to enjoy a bit of friendly competition?

What makes your time worth more than theirs? How is your enjoyment more important? Have you earned more right to it somehow? How is the price of admission you paid any different than anyone else? Should you reap more from your time at the expense of others? Are other players expected then to subsidize your fun at their own expense?

Because in the end, we're ALL here to have fun. But most of us, it seems, are not willing to take others' away from them just to get our own.

And that, with sincerity, is about the most respectful attitude you can have toward another player and the community in a game. That I'm not going to **** you over for my personal gain.

I'm sorry if being a decent human being is a struggle for most people... especially with the anonymity of the internet.

[Dahkoht]

You rail on about being a decent human being and at the same time excuse people for yelling in voice chat over a game. That it's understandable to rage over it and be an *** in voice chat to someone.

Sorry, but most adults I know think getting upset over a video game is the far more childish thing than putting an LRM on an Atlas in a solo pug queue.

You really are delusional to think the opposite , not even worth responding to anymore.

[ScarecrowES]

Dahkoht, on 15 February 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

You rail on about being a decent human being and at the same time excuse people for yelling in voice chat over a game. That it's understandable to rage over it and be an *** in voice chat to someone.

Sorry, but most adults I know think getting upset over a video game is the far more childish thing than putting an LRM on an Atlas in a solo pug queue.

You really are delusional to think the opposite , not even worth responding to anymore.

Oh please sir, if youd be so kind. Just one more response. Please tell me, if you can, where Ive advocated treating another player with hostility over their bad build?

And then, by all means, feel free to remove yourself from the debate.

[MeanFacedJohnny]

ScarecrowES, on 15 February 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

Given that he's underperforming for the chassis in his chosen build (again, 300-600 damage is not good for an Atlas), and the build he touts in this topic is the version he seems most comfortable with, I'd have to ask, then, why he underperforms and/or is unhappy playing more traditional and effective builds for the Atlas.

Does a close-range brawler simply not fit into his particular accumen and sensibilities? Brawling's not for everyone. It's a difficult skill to learn, and forcing yourself to conform to that standard can be a painful trail to follow.

Does he simply feel more comfortable at range? Does he not like the responsibility that comes from being an assault at the spearhead of a push? Or perhaps he just really LIKES both Atlai AND LRMs, and simply wants to experience those two things together?

Honestly, we don't know the WHY of it. I could categorize him better, of course, if I knew.

What I CAN say, however, is that "I do better in a bad build than I do in a good build" is not much of an excuse. What this tells me is that the player either lacks the skills required to play that particular mech effectively in the traditional role, or has focused too much on learning skills to overcome the inherent badness of the bad build. Either way, your best investment here is either focusing on learning to use the better build better, or switching to a chassis that plays his preferred role better. Either way, his results will be improved.

Personally, I can attest to the fact that there ARE builds out there that work very well in limited use that feature both LRMs and other viable long/short range weapon combos. Hell, I have a Warhawk-B with 3 lurms, 2 LPLs and 2 MPLs. That fits right into the wheelhouse of what the OP seems to want. The difference is, of course, that my Warhawk is capable of consistantly putting up 1000+ damage games, with 3-4 kills per match. Otherwise, it has the lurms... it has the long range lasers, it has the short range back-ups.

But it's just better arrainged overall. It's a lot faster. It's better optimized. And it can bring all the weapons to bare at a better variety of ranges with no gap in coverage. It's simply more effective. It's also one of two mechs in my stable that I'd ever dare run LRMs on. The other? A Catapult C1. That build? LRMs with long and short range lasers mounted in the torso, same as the Warhawk. Are these meta builds? Hell no! Are they effective? Undeniably. But these are mechs DESIGNED to support. These are not front line pushers I'm using these builds on. One pushers I use pushing builds. The OP would probably do better if he used a different build on his Atlas and learned to use it well... or use his build on a proper mech for it. This is a suggestion many have made in this thread... though some less than tactfully.

TBH, lately I have been getting more damage in my brawler atlas than my D-DC. I'm slowly getting better at brawling with it as opposed to me Ilya or my HM. I still have more fun playing my D-DC however. The why of it, if you insist, is because I am a child of the 90's (born today in 87 to be exact, rifleman is my bday gift to myself!) and my D-DC is my Megazord. I don't know why I think of it like that considering the megazord was all sword and fists, but I do. I like it. I actually don't play any mechs, aside from my misery, that don't resemble the human, or megazord, form. Misery gets a pass cause it's awesome paint scheme. It's mechsist I know, but it's how I like em. That's the honest truth. Love it or hate it. D-DC is my Megazord and I have a blast playing it.

[Nauht]

Rofl... if you're the type that can't separate your RL persona and how you treat others in RL from an internet one then you need to step away from the kb.

This is not RL. You don't know me and I don't know you.

I'm sure the vast majority here treats everyone with respect in RL and the majority also realises that the internet isn't.

This has nothing to do about how you treat others in RL as it's an online game. Sure there may be real people on the other end but I don't know you, don't care to know you, could not care less if someone I dont know gets angry at me. Go right ahead if it stops you punching your monitor.

But what does affect me, in my own leisure time, is playing what I want how I want. So yeah, when it comes to internet gaming my fun > your fun.

[Zoid]

I think the main takeaway from all this is just that if bringing a "bad" build is the dumbest thing your team does, you're doing very, very well. You can take whatever the hell you want if you shoot down the damn UAVs.

[Nauht]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 15 February 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

... D-DC is my Megazord and I have a blast playing it.

And that's all that matters. It's your gaming time not others.

[Dahkoht]

Mole, on 15 February 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

I can't believe this debate is even happening. I mean seriously. PUG matches are not competetive matches. That is what group queue is for. That is what CW is for. PUG matches are for you to bring whatever the bleeding hell you want to bring and people complaining about a human beings basic freedom of god damn choice is frankly absurd.

[ScarecrowES]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 15 February 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

TBH, lately I have been getting more damage in my brawler atlas than my D-DC. I'm slowly getting better at brawling with it as opposed to me Ilya or my HM. I still have more fun playing my D-DC however. The why of it, if you insist, is because I am a child of the 90's (born today in 87 to be exact, rifleman is my bday gift to myself!) and my D-DC is my Megazord. I don't know why I think of it like that considering the megazord was all sword and fists, but I do. I like it. I actually don't play any mechs, aside from my misery, that don't resemble the human, or megazord, form. Misery gets a pass cause it's awesome paint scheme. It's mechsist I know, but it's how I like em. That's the honest truth. Love it or hate it. D-DC is my Megazord and I have a blast playing it.

With all sincerity, brawling is perhaps the most difficult skill to learn, and hardest role to play in the game... and really, the Atlas does not excel at anything else. I think that's why the Atlas gets a rep as a bad mech. It's so hard to play it to its strengths.

Now, as I've said... I'm not one of these guys who will say, in absolutes, that LRMs are so horrible they're never worth taking. I'll say simply that for most people, situations, and builds, they're just bad. However, if you can mount them on a chassis that makes good use of them, and build them in as a compliment to a particular gameplay style that a chassis is designed for, you're going to find far better results. The mechs that can reliably mount LRMs and still come out on top, though? Few and far between. The Atlas is not one of those mechs. It's simply not designed for them. In fact, PGI has put design features in that highly discourage their use on that mech... the tube count in particular, but also the way the quirks are set up.

I'll also say that meta builds only work for meta playstyles and in meta situations. If you can absolutely control how a match is going to go to fully maximize the time you're going to be able to spend working a meta mech in a meta playstyle... well... good for you. You're literally the most amazing player in MWO and should write a guide for everyone else. Meta is only meta because, statistically speaking, it should perform the best under a given set of ideals. Many matches... most I should say in solo especially... will not break down into the ideas for meta. I generally prefer NOT to go straight for the builds in the top 5 for a given chassis unless I'm sure those builds fit exactly what I want out of that mech. Often they don't, and I prefer my own. They're not meta, but I won't take them into a match unless I know they can consistently hold their own weight.

Now... I've tried variations on long-range Atlai. I actually used for a time, to fairly good effect, a build that featured LRMs and gauss (case ftw) with ML backups. I could do wonders at long ranges, but I was extremely vulnerable, and wasn't useful where the team needed me to be. Not a D-DC mind you. I'd never deny an ECM bubble to my team if I brought one.

Still, sooner or later in a match (more likely sooner, as they're a number one target), an Atlas is going to find itself in a close range fight... or dead. Maybe both, one after the other. Knowing this, it's best to prepare for it. Having said THAT, though, you will find that none of my Atlai are stuck fighting at 270m. Only one of my 3 sports an AC/20 in the purse... what's paired with it? 4 large lasers. Imagine the shock of most players who think they can stand outside 270m and take safe shots at that one. Or my D-DC? 2UAC5s in the purse, the usual spread of SRMs in the shoulder, and some MLs for backup. I can sustain cockpit-shaking fire on the slow march to the front, and then finish the coring when I get there. My S? I keep the SRMs from the D-DC, drop down to an AC/10 in the purse, and change the MLs for LPLs. Now I'm going to have high alpha damage AND be able to throw in sustained high damage in the 500m range. And none of them suffer up close, so I've lost no utility as either a brawler OR a spearhead. I just get there in a non-meta way.

So to reiterate what I and others have said... You'll do better in that Atlas with a different build. The LRMs are not a strength on that mech, the way they might be on others. You don't, as so many whiners want to insinuate, have to run only meta builds to be successful... and many of us would discourage the use of a meta build if you don't understand the meta playstyle that goes with it. I also don't think anyone should be patently hostile to you if you run something that's not optimal. Just because folks have a right to let you know, doesn't mean they have to be jerks about it.