27 replies to this topic

[Douglas grizzly]

the reason i went with the lrm 5's is because while ams may eat up the first few waves, i am forcing the ams to use ammo at a ungodly rate. I paid close attention to videos of a ams system on navy ships and they burn ammo like its water when shooting just one missile. So i figured even a ams system that is somewhat more advanced will still burn ammo at a huge rate.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

IraqiWalker, on 14 February 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

People in units will goof around as often as they play "professionally"

All too true.
Heck, I goof around MORE often than I play seriously.
Silly troll builds are often WAY more fun that one's that are actually effective.

Douglas grizzly, on 15 February 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

the reason i went with the lrm 5's is because while ams may eat up the first few waves, i am forcing the ams to use ammo at a ungodly rate. I paid close attention to videos of a ams system on navy ships and they burn ammo like its water when shooting just one missile. So i figured even a ams system that is somewhat more advanced will still burn ammo at a huge rate.

I appreciate the thought you put into coming into that conclusion, but personally I do not think it is a wise approach.
Re-read my post too. Im not telling you to NEVER use chain fire.

I also would not use the real world to judge how mechanics of this game work. (If you understand firearms, and try to contemplate why an autocannon would generate heat to your engine you will go mad.)

So consider this:

AMS ammo is loaded by the thousands. AMS ammo is also not your targets primary source of ammo for offense. Your missile ammo is your bread and butter. Your goal is not to wear out your enemies AMS, but to kill your enemy.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Just a thought.

So, rather than spend one of your two E hard points on TAG, I was thinking you could spend one of your M hard points on NARC instead. The ERLLs give you direct, immediate punch at range, to back up that LRM-5 rain (will need the cooldown module to be TRULY worth doing). You could move down to LLs to spare a little heat, but that's already a good build. The XL 275 engine is a keeper, BTW (RVN-2X/4X, for instance). OR, change the lasers to MLs and the LRMs to 10s. Cut a single JJ and a half-ton of NARC ammo, and you're in business. Great thing about NARC and TAG, is that they're not just for spotting for LRMs. Either can counter ECM on the targeted mech (which brings a little bonus), and makes that mech's info available to you AND your teammates (except NARC when the affected mech comes under protection of another ECM on his team, but the ECM nerf made that a lot less common).

So, POP A NARC. (NOT like Cypress Hill style, though they're pretty cool.) Then rain the hate down on them, one point of damage at a time.

Also, keep in mind that some mechs' AMS mounts are in odd places that are easy to knock off. For instance the LCT-3M has a second AMS on its left arm, as does the BLR-2C. The AMS-goddess Cute Fox has hers on the right arm. Even with the Fattlemaster, that arm tends to get a lot less armor, and can get carved off pretty quickly. HENCE the suggestion of the ERLLs, to help knock off the AMS BEFORE you go dumping those missiles into your targets.

The play is like this. Early on, you wanna hill hump and corner peek at range. Wear down a bit on enemy armor and so on. As the match progresses and they start to take some damage, start dropping NARCs and raining LRMs, while moving WITH the main body of your team, like a skirmisher on the edge of the fight, also dumping in lasers whenever you've got the heat and line-of-sight. Late match, just pour on the LRM hate ("Let the hate FLOW through you..." -Emperor Palpatine, which I've always thought was a REALLY creepy name for an old man) to finish off those enemy brawlers that got roughed up, using your speed to keep them in the rear view and your awesome torso twist to stay on target while running like HELP. Should be able to throw down good damage and a few kills, as long as you can keep the lights off of you.

[Fobhopper]

Douglas grizzly, on 15 February 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

the reason i went with the lrm 5's is because while ams may eat up the first few waves, i am forcing the ams to use ammo at a ungodly rate. I paid close attention to videos of a ams system on navy ships and they burn ammo like its water when shooting just one missile. So i figured even a ams system that is somewhat more advanced will still burn ammo at a huge rate.

As someone who has AMS on almost every mech that can equip one, 1 ton of AMS ammo is 2k rounds, and that can last a very long time. Even fighting on an LRM heavy map like highland, alpine or even forest colony; I almost never run out of AMS ammo. Even when my AMS is intercepting LRM's for allies, I still have plenty of ammo to cover myself. By running 4 tubes of 5, all you are doing is giving away your position and wasting ammo. Run LRM 10's at minimum, so that a few missiles can get past the AMS defense, and you arent forced to face-stalk your target all game long for just chip damage.

[Rogue Jedi]

Fobhopper, on 16 February 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

As someone who has AMS on almost every mech that can equip one, 1 ton of AMS ammo is 2k rounds, and that can last a very long time. Even fighting on an LRM heavy map like highland, alpine or even forest colony; I almost never run out of AMS ammo. Even when my AMS is intercepting LRM's for allies, I still have plenty of ammo to cover myself. By running 4 tubes of 5, all you are doing is giving away your position and wasting ammo. Run LRM 10's at minimum, so that a few missiles can get past the AMS defense, and you arent forced to face-stalk your target all game long for just chip damage.

One of the good things of running multiple LRM5s is that it gives flexibility, you can use different weapon groups and set it to work like 4 LRM5 or as 2 LRM10 or 1 LRM20, if I am running that sort of build weather LRM or SRM I will usualy have 2 weapon groups for the missiles, chain fire or alpha fire, I almost always use the chain fire group but occasionally you just want the big punch, like if the enemy has AMS.
if you are firing multiple tubes at once you will be generating a bit more heat than just the LRM10 or LRM20 but you are using less tonnage, and if the enemy do not have AMS ^{(they usualy in my experience do not)} then you can chain fire the 5s to do more accurate damage ^{(LRM5 will mostly hit CT, LRM20 will splash damage all over the Mech)}

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 16 February 2016 - 09:21 AM.

[Fobhopper]

Rogue Jedi, on 16 February 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

One of the good things of running multiple LRM5s is that it gives flexibility, you can use different weapon groups and set it to work like 4 LRM5 or as 2 LRM10 or 1 LRM20, if I am running that sort of build weather LRM or SRM I will usualy have 2 weapon groups for the missiles, chain fire or alpha fire, I almost always use the chain fire group but occasionally you just want the big punch, like if the enemy has AMS.
if you are firing multiple tubes at once you will be generating a bit more heat than just the LRM10 or LRM20 but you are using less tonnage, and if the enemy do not have AMS ^{(they usualy in my experience do not)} then you can chain fire the 5s to do more accurate damage ^{(LRM5 will mostly hit CT, LRM20 will splash damage all over the Mech)}

Chain fire is a great way of managing heat (unless you have built for laser alpha vomit, there is no reason to alpha everything), but 4 lrm5's means you have to wait for the full chain to fire to do 20 damage and requires you to stare down your opponent to keep a lock. Running 2 lrm10's requires less staring, allows you to manage your heat and dps better, and allows you to twist to tank damage without making you waste missiles holding down firing buttons.

LRM's are at best a secondary fire weapon and are meant to bring extra DPS to targets out or range/direct fire without exposing yourself too much. And considering their arming range, and the requirement of a lock, its a terrible weapon system to try and fight in a short/mid range fight. Having 2 sets of tubes allows for better reacting to scenario's in comparison to 4, which requires your entire attention trying to keep a lock on a target. And considering the mech you are aiming for, splash damage isnt such a bad thing. I would rather have splash damage heavily damage the side torso of a hunchback or a warhawk/KGC/atlas because the primary weapons are housed there, and it eliminates potential damage going to me or my team. Having 2 sets of 10 missiles is better in combat than having 4 sets of 5 missiles. The fewer the weapon systems that require a lock to be held allows you to better watch your back for lights/mediums that are hunting after the constant stream of LRM's.

If the game was just 1v1 mech fighting, the 4x5 plan would be great. It manages heat, allows constant barrage and if you lose the armor on the mech, you have less of a chance of weapon systems being crit'd and taken out. But this game is 12x12, and you constantly have to be aware of your surroundings and how the battlefield is developing. The enemy team is not going to just let someone keep pelting their mechs with LRM's, they will come hunt you. And having 2 sets of missile salvo's is harder to track the specific location in comparison to a constant stream of 5 missiles. And if the enemy team has an AMS or two, none of those groups of 5 will ever hit a mech, but at least a few of the salvo's of 10 will make it through.

The less information you can give your opponent, the better.

[Rogue Jedi]

Fobhopper, on 16 February 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

Chain fire is a great way of managing heat (unless you have built for laser alpha vomit, there is no reason to alpha everything), but 4 lrm5's means you have to wait for the full chain to fire to do 20 damage and requires you to stare down your opponent to keep a lock. Running 2 lrm10's requires less staring, allows you to manage your heat and dps better, and allows you to twist to tank damage without making you waste missiles holding down firing buttons.

I do not disagree on most of your points but I have found direct fire LRM5 chain fire to be extremely effective, far more so than chain firing larger launchers, on the effectiveness of chain vs alpha fire for LRMs we will just have to agree to disagree.

[Bilbo]

IraqiWalker, on 14 February 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

Doesn't that mean being in a unit makes you better? Yes, you don't immediately level up once you sign with a unit, but being in a unit helps you become a better player.

No. It means you have more immediate access to feedback that can help make you better. Whether you use it to your advantage or not is up to you. Whether those in the unit give it in a useful manner is up to them. Being able to play with the same people on your team regularly makes it easier to determine when you make a mistake or when you have just been outplayed. Having these tools at your disposal doesn't make you better unless you use them. At the same time, these tools are not required to become a better player.