15 replies to this topic

[NephyrisX]

Now that flamers deals 4.5 heat per second...

How likely would the Laser meta change now that Lights can boat them and basically near stun-lock laserboats?

[Lily from animove]

It kinda nerfs anything except gauss, because honestly at 90% heattreshold, try to calculate which guns you still can shoot to not shut down. All wepaons within this range stay basically unnerfed.
SRM's will be bad because they spread and cost quite some heat for inefficiently low damage at this heat.
It will be about AC's until 10.

But the worst will be how this affects general gameplay.
It will people try to avoid getting "stunned" which is only able when: you alpha someone dead before he reaches you. So the high alpha builds stay.

People will start to camp more to see the other incoming.

People will deathball more to prevent situations where small lances of lights stun them.

Being not able to use energywepaons properly will kill most lights and mediums that have no other valid choices. And since those categories are underused already it will just kill their % even more.

Edited by Lily from animove, 16 February 2016 - 06:39 AM.

[Gamuray]

^Agreed

[Pjwned]

It would affect laser vomit and it should affect laser vomit, but the problem is that the proposed flamer buff is looking ridiculously overdone.

[sycocys]

Isn't the flamer range still 90m or something ridiculously short? Seems like it won't be much of an issue for the majority of players to just stay out of your range.

[Lostdragon]

Realistically how often is a light going to be able to stick around long enough to spend 4 seconds of face time flaming an opponent without getting blown to bits by the target's teammates? Flamers might be good in a duel against a laser boat, but I don't realistically find myself in that situation enough to warrant taking them.

At the end of the day even with the heat buff flamers are still a very short range weapon that require a lot of face time to add significant heat to an enemy. They are also very hot for the user so if you are trying to get an enemy to 90% heat to lock them out of firing then you are effectively going to do the same thing to yourself. Enemy teams are going to focus you as a priority target to get rid of the pesky flamer mech that is heating them up.

I seriously doubt that in a month you will see any Firestarter running around with 4 flamers and 4 MGs. Some people will take one or two because they are situationally useful for heavier brawlers but most lights are going to devote their tonnage to weapons that actually do damage because at the end of the day flamers will still not be a better choice than a SPL or ML on a light or most mediums (Nova and SCR have the hardpoints to make taking 1 or 2 not that much of a sacrifice).

[feeWAIVER]

Lostdragon, on 16 February 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

Realistically how often is a light going to be able to stick around long enough to spend 4 seconds of face time flaming an opponent without getting blown to bits by the target's teammates? Flamers might be good in a duel against a laser boat, but I don't realistically find myself in that situation enough to warrant taking them.

At the end of the day even with the heat buff flamers are still a very short range weapon that require a lot of face time to add significant heat to an enemy. They are also very hot for the user so if you are trying to get an enemy to 90% heat to lock them out of firing then you are effectively going to do the same thing to yourself. Enemy teams are going to focus you as a priority target to get rid of the pesky flamer mech that is heating them up.

I seriously doubt that in a month you will see any Firestarter running around with 4 flamers and 4 MGs. Some people will take one or two because they are situationally useful for heavier brawlers but most lights are going to devote their tonnage to weapons that actually do damage because at the end of the day flamers will still not be a better choice than a SPL or ML on a light or most mediums (Nova and SCR have the hardpoints to make taking 1 or 2 not that much of a sacrifice).

Exactly.. I do think the new flamers will really shine in the 4v4 battlemode though.

Also, you can easily chainfire and stay within the remaining 10% range.

[Wintersdark]

I just don't see it.

Flamer range: 90m, hard maximum. zero effect at 91m.
Flamers generate heat on your mech as well as the opposing mech.

You're doing no damage, and not doing anything remotely like "stunlocking" your opponent.

If he's got ANY ballistics, he's still going to be firing at you. You're doing no damage to him. He can still move freely.

You've got to get within 90, then STAY within 90m. This makes you a great target for his friends, too.

Yeah, I just don't see how this is OP at all.

Honestly, I think there will be a bunch for a limited time, then they'll largely vanish.

90m is a very, very short distance.

[Mechteric]

Lasers outrange flamers by what 1000%, so no I don't think so.

But I do see flamers possibly being a good addition to a brawler's arsenal.

[Lostdragon]

feeWAIVER, on 16 February 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

Exactly.. I do think the new flamers will really shine in the 4v4 battlemode though.

Also, you can easily chainfire and stay within the remaining 10% range.

I get the chain fire thing but you are just exposing yourself even longer and asking for your target's teammates to blow you away. You personally are still not going to be able to fire anything else but ballistics, so at best you are taking one enemy out of the fight temporarily without doing much damage to it.

[TyphonCh]

Everyone seems to forget, in the video that was a firestarter with FOUR flamers against the basic rifleman with likely 10 shs. Realistically you're sacrificing a lot of hardpoints and firepower to 'maybe' get within 90m and 'maybe' overheat your target. Meanwhile, putting a huge target over your own head because people using flamers tend to get focused down pretty fast.

[Pjwned]

sycocys, on 16 February 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Isn't the flamer range still 90m or something ridiculously short? Seems like it won't be much of an issue for the majority of players to just stay out of your range.

The problem with that thinking is that until flamers turned into a serious heat weapon, players didn't really have much of a reason to get that close unless you're running something like a FS9-A with 8 SPL.

It's not necessarily that it's very hard to get within that range in a fast mech, and with a serious flamer buff that will definitely give people a reason to really try to stick within that short range.

Lostdragon, on 16 February 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

Realistically how often is a light going to be able to stick around long enough to spend 4 seconds of face time flaming an opponent without getting blown to bits by the target's teammates? Flamers might be good in a duel against a laser boat, but I don't realistically find myself in that situation enough to warrant taking them.

At the end of the day even with the heat buff flamers are still a very short range weapon that require a lot of face time to add significant heat to an enemy. They are also very hot for the user so if you are trying to get an enemy to 90% heat to lock them out of firing then you are effectively going to do the same thing to yourself. Enemy teams are going to focus you as a priority target to get rid of the pesky flamer mech that is heating them up.

I seriously doubt that in a month you will see any Firestarter running around with 4 flamers and 4 MGs. Some people will take one or two because they are situationally useful for heavier brawlers but most lights are going to devote their tonnage to weapons that actually do damage because at the end of the day flamers will still not be a better choice than a SPL or ML on a light or most mediums (Nova and SCR have the hardpoints to make taking 1 or 2 not that much of a sacrifice).

Bringing up teammates is a fair point, but considering what a light-friendly weapon flamers are and how fast those light mechs can go I think it's going to be deadly in the right hands of somebody who doesn't suicide charge into a group that's facing them. I also disagree that SPLs are a better choice in most cases because they're only really effective when boated like crazy, whereas flamers are quite effective with less than 6 of them equipped; I might agree if small lasers were 1 heat like they're supposed to be however.

[Lostdragon]

Pjwned, on 16 February 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

Bringing up teammates is a fair point, but considering what a light-friendly weapon flamers are and how fast those light mechs can go I think it's going to be deadly in the right hands of somebody who doesn't suicide charge into a group that's facing them. I also disagree that SPLs are a better choice in most cases because they're only really effective when boated like crazy, whereas flamers are quite effective with less than 6 of them equipped; I might agree if small lasers were 1 heat like they're supposed to be however.

SPL has double the range of flamers and actually does damage. I play in the PUG queue so I can't see dropping lasers for flamers on any of my lights, but if you are playing with a group I can see how having a flamer light would be useful. But where flamers are situationally useful SPLs are useful in every situation.

[Doman Hugin]

Not at home so can't test, but can you actually chain fire flamers?
I mean they fire for as long as hold downthe fire key, so wouldn't chain fire e a momentery phtt every half second?

[nehebkau]

NephyrisX, on 16 February 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

Now that flamers deals 4.5 heat per second...

How likely would the Laser meta change now that Lights can boat them and basically near stun-lock laserboats?

Flamers will be better for IS mechs against clan mechs imho.

[MostLikely2Suck]

NephyrisX, on 16 February 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

Now that flamers deals 4.5 heat per second...

How likely would the Laser meta change now that Lights can boat them and basically near stun-lock laserboats?

PGI's testing method:


PS: (it's really missing the first half of this meme):

http://cdn.meme.am/i...es/51059636.jpg