32 replies to this topic

[VinJade]

I think the only weapon that needs a nerf range is the IS ER LL, but these nerfs can somewhat be negated with the modules you buy for C-bills.

Edited by VinJade, 14 February 2016 - 09:56 AM.

[FupDup]

VinJade, on 14 February 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

I think the only weapon that needs a nerf range is the IS ER LL, but these nerfs can somewhat be negated with the modules you buy for C-bills.

Given that a lot of people already used range modules in addition to the quirks, the end result is still a range loss.

Only people who didn't use range mods would be able to "negate" the change, but how many people seriously don't use them?

-----
Not @ you:

I've already given two suggestions for dealing with this issue, but neither will ever happen.

Option A: Keep the range quirks where they are, but add in a negative range quirk to the IS ERLL specifically. For example, a mech with +30% energy range might get -20% ERLL range, which gives it a total of +10% ERLL range at the end. This lets the other weapons keep their range while still bumping down the ERLL.


Option B: For range quirks, use additive values instead of multiplicative percentages. The problem with percentages is that they give the largest benefit to values that already start off high by default, such as the range of the ERLL. With additive values, giving a static +X meters range quirk would have a proportionally higher benefit to short-range weapons than long-range weapons.

An example of this might be replacing +30% energy range with +100 meters energy range. The ERLL would go from 675 to 775, while the IS Small Laser would go from 135 to 235 or the IS ML would go from 270 to 370. Notice how huge the difference is for the shorter-ranged guns.

Edited by FupDup, 14 February 2016 - 10:06 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

ISnt it only to the generic "energy range" and doesn't affect weapon specific range quirks? I'm only worried about mechs that I have that use Medium lasers than get 300+ with the quirks...acutlaly makes them useful...

I dont mind IS erll getting gimped a bit...Had my crab cored out one game at nearly 1k meters by an erll battlemaster...that seems a tad unresonable...I was getting outraded in a fully decked out Range modded gauss king crab...

[Zoid]

VinJade, on 14 February 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

I think the only weapon that needs a nerf range is the IS ER LL, but these nerfs can somewhat be negated with the modules you buy for C-bills.

IS LPL really shouldn't go out as far as it does. Human reaction time is ~.25 seconds so when you add in even a little lag the IS LPL will deal almost full damage, instantly, to one location, with the click of a button. Right now some 'mechs are able to deal pretty significant damage with it out to 700m. You really can't have a 'mech capable of dealing ~30 damage to one spot with the click of a button every single time and expect it to be balanced.

[FupDup]

xXBagheeraXx, on 14 February 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

ISnt it only to the generic "energy range" and doesn't affect weapon specific range quirks? I'm only worried about mechs that I have that use Medium lasers than get 300+ with the quirks...acutlaly makes them useful...

The thing is that the vast majority of mechs don't even have specific quirks anymore, it's almost entirely generic/broad quirks. The few mechs that do have specific quirks are only around 5% or so, making those quirks nearly useless.

Edited by FupDup, 14 February 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

I think most of the ones in my Stable have just a flat 10% bonus so I'm not going to personally feel it a lot. out of all the rides in my stables th eonly ones losing range are my Catapults....most of them missile mechs...and even then its only 5%.

Wubbshee still has 10%...

Wubbmaster stlll has 10% + an additional 10% for its 3 medium lasers.

My bounty hunter still has 357meter (modded) medium lasers with its Gauss rifle....All's well for me...It pays not to chase the meta rainbow...LOL Not entirely disagreeing that the Top dog should get some weapon specific ones like medium lasers so they get around about the same range as Large pulse lasers if you mod them.

[VinJade]

I personally never go with mechs for their quirks, just the number of missiles I can mount on mine, which is why I jumped to the Stalkers & sold my Clan mechs, mainly because their rate of fire is slower than a mech IS mech without Missile rate quirks.

Energy weapons are an afterthought just to ensure I had secondary weapons so I am not useless when I am out of ammunition.

[cSand]

FupDup, on 14 February 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

The thing is that the vast majority of mechs don't even have specific quirks anymore, it's almost entirely generic/broad quirks. The few mechs that do have specific quirks are only around 5% or so, making those quirks nearly useless.

this patch is great news indeed then

the fewer quirks the better IMO

[Ultimax]

Zoid, on 14 February 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

IS LPL really shouldn't go out as far as it does. Human reaction time is ~.25 seconds so when you add in even a little lag the IS LPL will deal almost full damage, instantly, to one location, with the click of a button. Right now some 'mechs are able to deal pretty significant damage with it out to 700m. You really can't have a 'mech capable of dealing ~30 damage to one spot with the click of a button every single time and expect it to be balanced.

The 7 ton LPL is finally worth every bit of its tonnage with quirks in the picture.

It absolutely needs some range from either quirks or buffing the base, because a 7 ton LPL at 365m vs. a 4 tons worth of Clan Medium pulse at 330m was just a joke.

[Wolfways]

Just say no to weapon quirks.

[Karmen Baric]

Source Mystic, on 14 February 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

I read that all Is mechs are going to get a nerf to range down to 10 % .....I am fine with that but what are you going to do to re-balance that ..... are you going to buff cool-down and general heat.

Looks like IS mechs wont get compensated for that, despite the other Clan buffs incoming.

Clan mechs are already the better brawlers, clan mechs will have range advantage come this next patch and that will give Clans the advantage in game. All players will now go to Clan side for easy mode and Clan space will go to Terra as it did before and PGI will be happy and some whiny players, but most players wont.

Wolfways, on 14 February 2016 - 10:24 PM, said:

Just say no to weapon quirks.

LOL. Some mechs desperately need weapon quirks due to lack of hardpoints or bad geometry/mech design.

[MechWarrior4023212]

Source Mystic, on 14 February 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

I read that all Is mechs are going to get a nerf to range down to 10 % ....

Quirks will have a maximum of 10%....not reduced by 10%!

[Khobai]

Quote

I read that all Is mechs are going to get a nerf to range down to 10 %

Only the generic energy range quirk is being capped at +10%

Specific energy quirks like +15% range to large lasers are still going to stay the same.

Quote

Looks like IS mechs wont get compensated for that, despite the other Clan buffs incoming.

Clan mechs are already the better brawlers, clan mechs will have range advantage come this next patch and that will give Clans the advantage in game

Where do you get this nonsense from that clan mechs are better brawlers? clan mechs have an advantage at medium range to be sure (laser vomit is ideal in the 400m-500m range band). But when it comes to brawling IS have better quirks, harder hitting ACs, harder hitting SRMs with tighter spread, and structure quirks. IS Standard engines are also better than CXL in a brawl since you dont lose half your internal heatsinks when a side torso gets blown out.

Edited by Khobai, 14 February 2016 - 11:48 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Nobody brawls with a STD except for Atlas pilots. Legs are the target of choice there, not torsos.

[Lily from animove]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 February 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

Nobody brawls with a STD except for Atlas pilots. Legs are the target of choice there, not torsos.

so you XL your MAD?

[Surn]

IS ER LL should not be range nerfed.

The primary reason certain groups want their clan mechs to have better range is for lore, and some cheats want to ensure their aim bots are not out ranged. There is a third group that is just a deathball meta who calls all snipers "sniperpussies" and can't stand their deathball being shot at range.

All three of these reasons are invalid. This game needs the IS to have mechs with specific superior roles and clan mechs to be generally superior. This is the only way to make this game balanced and have a strategic aspect.

[Y E O N N E]

Lily from animove, on 15 February 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

so you XL your MAD?

Yes, actually. XL 350. It does pretty well.

I also don't really play it as a brawler so much as a striker. It doesn't have the geometry for brawling, it can't spread damage from assailants not directly in front of it.

[Lily from animove]

MechregSurn, on 15 February 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

All three of these reasons are invalid. This game needs the IS to have mechs with specific superior roles and clan mechs to be generally superior. This is the only way to make this game balanced and have a strategic aspect.

not necessarily, both sides don't need a IS vs Clan startegic aspect at all. However chassis need balance to each other. Currently palystyle of metaweapons decide the viability of a chassis. While a strategic aspect should come from the chassis deciding the choice for a weapon system. But it currently doesn't equiprs beause soem mechs out class others compeltely makign some chassis just "inferior" choices. Which then means building a mech is:

discardig inferior mechs, Take best weapon system, Boat as many as the metachassis can carry. success.
The first idea of PGI actually using quirks was not bad in the basic coneption, but it horribly failed with the chosen values by execution.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 February 2016 - 07:23 AM.

[Zoid]

Ultimax, on 14 February 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

The 7 ton LPL is finally worth every bit of its tonnage with quirks in the picture.

It absolutely needs some range from either quirks or buffing the base, because a 7 ton LPL at 365m vs. a 4 tons worth of Clan Medium pulse at 330m was just a joke.

It did need something but optimal range being 500m on some 'mechs is ridiculous. Also, that extra 0.2 seconds of duration is bigger than you think it is. Especially when you combine it with other quirks that lower the duration to 0.6 seconds.

With range mods and quirks, the C-MPLAS was doing zero damage at 650m while the IS LPL was still doing ~70%. It doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground but it was a bit much.

Edited by Zoid, 15 February 2016 - 08:38 AM.

[Lugh]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 February 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

Nobody brawls with a STD except for Atlas pilots. Legs are the target of choice there, not torsos.

If you are building for Brawl, you never use an XL, unless you are in a dragon, centurion XL friendly mech

This is why you fail at brawling.