116 replies to this topic

[The Littlest Sushi]

Eliting those Cats would be optimal. LRM boating is great if you have a teammate or two go in on it with you and they bring TAGs or Narcs. Splatcats are good, though you tend to have to engage much later than the rest of your team to ensure that ample fire is diverted away from your facehole. Even then, you run out of ammo quite quick, but a 660+ point run in under two minutes is nothing to sneeze at, especially the DPS it puts out.

TDRs are pretty much some of the tankiest things out there in terms of firepower. Front-loading armor should be priority, as it's not often the enemy will fire at your backside. Even a decent thunderbolt can go toe to toe with most clan heavies, and even some assaults. I don't like telling people this but if your thunderbolt was falling fast, it's not fully on the build or the mech, it's mostly on the pilot. I've pulled myself constant 900-1100 damage rounds before respawning, (and seen) in clan wars a single TDR pull over 1400 damage on its own before dying, and he was in the thick of the fight the entire match. When he respawned and popped out in another, he doubled that and our team won.

There's a reason it's in the current Meta. Ton for ton, what it does makes it the undisputed best IS heavy for CW. But do not take them in if they aren't maxed and skilled.

In terms of assaults, BLRs are great in the right hands and stalkers can fire all day and shrug off damage to the face like no one's business. If I recommend any other assault it would have to be a fully skilled Atlas DDC, and it HAS to be running with ECM, though Atlai are not quite noob friendly.

K2 Catapults can dual Gauss, though that is such an ammo-reliant build and a miss with both gauss is a painful miscalculation that can cost your team.

Believe it or not I run a K2 with ERLLs, a few mediums, and a command console. Sure, it's not great, but the minor benefits a CC offers has helped the positioning and layout of my team and pulled us back from the fringe a few times. It also pulls out solid DPS for a cat with ERLLs.

[DaemonWulfe]

You should start watching videos of gameplay from more experienced pilots. Go to YouTube and search for top groups like SJR, 228, KCOM, those types. Watch how they navigate the field and how they stick together. Pay close attention to how they twist off damage and time their shots for good, solid hits. Practice doing these things and you'll be hitting 2k in CW using all direct fire. After you see the ultimate advantage to leaving LRMs in the mech bay, you will probably retire your Catapults, only bringing them out on those rare moments when you need to remind yourself how bad LRMs suck.

Once you start hitting higher tiers in quickplay you'll notice those damage numbers with missiles going down. The more experienced an adversary, the least effective your LRMs will be. This is the main reason why most recommend not bringing LRMs to CW.

Your luck will run out when the team you face has all direct fire mechs. This is how it will always go: first, your direct fire mechs are up front, getting hammered because they can't get the instant damage down on the pushing team that they need. Their shots are good, but it's no use because the enemy team is balled up and intent on pushing right over them. Meanwhile, you'll be in the rear, struggling for locks as each one of your team mates is focused down with laser precision, one by one, dropping in seconds. Before you know it, you have a wall of angry red Doritos chasing after your big fat, Catapult ears and nose. You'll try to run, to keep distance and maybe get a lock or two, but it's too late. They've shaved your ears off and your rear CT just got slammed by a Jenner IIC with 4 SRM6. The next wave, your direct fire mechs are now demoralized. They saw they got no help in the first wave, so now they're going to play more cautious (if they're smart) with the second mech. You drop on the field with your next Cat, but something is different this time. There are less locks and the enemy team has pushed all the way to your base. This time your Cat might go down first, because they see your big fat nose and know that they can drop you in one alpha strike if one of their buddies hits you at the same time. If not, a single clan mech will drop you with 2 alphas right to the face. By the third mech, things are looking grim. Your skittles team has managed to drop the first wave of marauding Timberwolves, Stormcrows, and Hellbringers. As the enemy team pushes in with their second wave of heavies and mediums, the last of your team is wiped away from the Omega platform and the drop zones, losing maybe one or two of their second wave to dropships, who have now become the MVP.

The alternative is to learn direct fire while using teamspeak. Come see us on the FRR Hub and listen intently to the veterans who have survived two previous cycles of CW. We will learn you how to smash skittles, give organized units a fight of their lives, and how to lose with grace against KCOM, 'cause they're hard to beat regardless of who you're dropping with.

[Lupis Volk]

Give me a mech weight and i'll toss you ideas.

[Liquid Leopard]

SP3CTREnyc, on 16 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

TDR-9S or STK-4N.

How is this even a discussion?

TDR-9SE is still good.

That's how.

[Liquid Leopard]

DavidStarr, on 18 February 2016 - 09:57 PM, said:

Not at all. And Jester, an ugly impotent Catapult with no missiles, would definitely NOT be my first MC mech. But I will continue to bring C4, and maybe A1. Because why wouldn't I bring a mech that pulls 400-600 damage more often than not.


It does indeed! Now I just need 40 more million C-bills...

LRMs were impotent for a long time, so I don't understand your mindset. I don't use my missile-armed Catapults any more, and I can't fathom bringing a Catapult A1 with no backup weapons.

LRMs are as powerful as they are right now because of the ECM nerf . We don't know how long that will last.
EDIT: I think the ECM nerf might have been right before you joined.

As Catapults go, the Jester is the king of laser vomit. It averages more damage than my K2.

Also, from your comments on the Thunderbolt, I'm getting the impression you don't torso twist enough between salvos.

If so, I feel your pain. I remember thinking there was an overwhelming amount of stuff I had to get right. I couldn't shoot worth a d@mn, under pressure I couldn't remember to torso twist, the game had a really steep learning curve, and I had no idea when I'd ever suck less. So I, too, leaned heavily on the LRM crutch. For about the first 6 months.

Then, I started to the hang of it with direct-fire weapons.
Then they added that "charging" mechanic to Gauss rifles, and I hated Gauss rifles for the next 2 years.
Eventually, I got better with Gauss rifles because, somewhere in my mind, I had to. Every so often I'd feel like I was up to the challenge, and I'd get out of my comfort zone and play PUG matches with a Gauss mech.
Eventually, I didn't suck so much, and when I saw the build for the Ebon Jaguar Cauldron Born with 6 MLs and a Gauss, I tried it and wrecked many faces.

For a long time I hated light mechs because I sucked with them. One day I had a flash of inspiration, and a few matches later I was having all kinds of fun in a Locust with 6xSPL. (I still don't like my Arctic Cheetahs Hankyus.)

If I still leaned on the LRM crutch like I used to, the guys I hang out with now might not want me in CW with them.

Maybe you can't relate to my specific issues... Maybe you never sucked like I did...

Regardless, this will still be true: You can't stick with LRMs or any one weapon indefinitely. You better yourself by trying different mechs and unfamiliar weapons, even if it sucks at first.

Edited by Liquid Leopard, 29 February 2016 - 03:04 PM.

[Necromantion]

David many people here have made some knowledgeable suggestions which you continue to shoot down yet havent even tried them. You seem to be clutching to missiles as your main weapon and if you ever wish to get anywhere in this game you need to peel yourself away from your LRM addiction and work on your skills with beam and ballistics weapons.

Also if your tbolt is crumbling (I dont know if the trial is fully armored or not) you need to be torso twisting to spread damage.

[Windscape]

im glad hes not choosing to go meta tbolt, there are many better mechs out there, but i wouldnt keep sticking to lrms either

[JaegerDjinn]

DavidStarr, on 16 February 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

I've just got C-bills for one more mech. I was going to get CPLT-K2 and start working on those elite skills, but then I thought maybe I should use this chance to get something specifically with CW in mind - because K2 is hardly suited, and A1 / A4 already are as good as they're gonna get.

So what heavy / assault would you recommend? But please, no Thunderbolt!

Dave that is a hard question too answer since not every mech fits all players. We can tell you what works for us but might not for you. Definately would not suggest the jagers. They can be a glass cannons and take alot of practice too master. Also you cant take just heavies and assults into a drop deck, too much weight. You will also need acouple of meds or a med and a light. For the med I love the Enforcers. Great maneuvering and can get some great load outs on them. But as I said it is what works for you, not us.

[Liquid Leopard]

Backstab Murphy, on 21 February 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

Eliting those Cats would be optimal...

...In terms of assaults, BLRs are great in the right hands and stalkers can fire all day and shrug off damage to the face like no one's business.

The Stalker pilot's motto:
"You should see the other guy's fists!"

O.P., maybe it would help your selection process to look at the Hitbox Localization Thread:
http://mwomercs.com/...x-localization/

Using the Stalker as an example: The CT hitbox is a strip down the middle. They take tons of damage to the side torsos.
XL engine in Stalker = BAD

...And even when a side torso is officially blown away, you keep torso twisting, and I believe hits to the "destroyed" side torso are blunted to half damage before transferring to the CT.


I see they've updated that thread and the Catapult's CT isn't huge like it used to be. It's making me rethink having an XL in every Catapult.

But, the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf still have big CT hitboxes that are easy to hit even from the side.

And, the Raven's CT looks like it's a much easier target now. Hmmm...

Edited by Liquid Leopard, 29 February 2016 - 04:43 PM.

[DavidStarr]

Thanks for some detailed responses - I missed quite a bit during the week I haven't checked the thread.

I've got Stalker 5S (LPLs + SRMs), and don't like it. It kinda works in quickplay, and doesn't work at all in CW. I made a mistake, though - after I completely fitted my new Stalker, tested it and found it it's terrible, I came up with a much better fit but it requires removing endo-steel which I wasn't willing to do. I could try it now that I have some C-bills to spare, but since I already got 20-something thousand XP to master it, think I'll just move onto the next Stalker.

As for Catapults - I can play many mechs (well, not many - I don't have many - but a few) in quickplay OK, but Catapults still remain my main contributor in CW. My typical deck is STK-5S + CPLT-C4 + HBK-4G (4J on offense) + Enforcer (the trial one. 5P?).
I'm experimenting with CPLT-K2 in quickplay now on my way to eliting them all. It's not bad, but I need to play it more to know if it's CW-worthy.

Lupis Volk, on 29 February 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

Give me a mech weight and i'll toss you ideas.

Doesn't matter. I have a selection of 65 ton and 50 ton mechs (and some trial lights) to fill the other 3 slots.

Edited by DavidStarr, 07 March 2016 - 07:20 AM.

[Stormie]

Don't run the trial enforcer.that's like a free kill to a clanner with an xl engine.
As a clan loyalist id much prefer you bought thunderbolts. They don't scare me like grasshoppers and black knights do.

[DavidStarr]

Stormie, on 07 March 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Don't run the trial enforcer.that's like a free kill to a clanner with an xl engine.

That's a good point I didn't really notice. Although I'm not sure I do better with elited AC/20 HBK-4G than with trial AC/10 Enforcer. If nothing else, AC/20 lacks range.

Edited by DavidStarr, 08 March 2016 - 12:25 AM.

[Tarogato]

Stormie, on 07 March 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Don't run the trial enforcer.that's like a free kill to a clanner with an xl engine.
As a clan loyalist id much prefer you bought thunderbolts. They don't scare me like grasshoppers and black knights do.

XL in an Enforcer is fine, actually. People usually forego the ballistic however, and just go with laservomit. It's a better choice than the WVR-6K, since at least you can still have two LL in the left torso in case you lose the left arm. That's how I run mine and it's plenty tanky for a 50-tonner.

[DavidStarr]

So, initially I went for Stalkers as per suggestions from this topic. I was struggling with them for weeks, it was a horrible experience, and doubly so in CW. I'd say in CW LPL STK-5S worked best and in quickplay 2xALRM 20 3H worked best, with SRM + LL 5M sucking in both modes. A couple days ago I finally elited the last one of them, sold 3H and 5M (keeping 5S for now because deep down I still have hopes the problem is with my piloting and not with the mech itself), and bought Banshees. First I did a funny 8xMPL BNC-3M build with 38 STD heatsinks, today I added a 3xAC/5 BNC-3E to the stable, and both work like a charm! They both have higher DPS than Stalker (except for maybe SRM 5M, but what good is an SRM4 paper DPS figure), and more importantly, they actually live long enough to deal damage.

Thought I'd share the experience in case some other newbie like me comes across this thread.

Edited by DavidStarr, 26 March 2016 - 10:17 AM.

[Padre Balistique]

DavidStarr, on 07 March 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

That's a good point I didn't really notice. Although I'm not sure I do better with elited AC/20 HBK-4G than with trial AC/10 Enforcer. If nothing else, AC/20 lacks range.

I have an XL enforcer in my dropdeck.

The Enforcer has great hitboxes and a small size, plus with the AC10 you'll have range. Back that up with a bandolier of Mlas and you can be dangerous and fast and survivable, even with an XL.

[KrocodockleTheBooBoxLoader-GetIn]

Read everything there is on metamechs.com and please please please stop bringing catapults to cw

[DavidStarr]

Krocodockle, on 26 March 2016 - 09:08 PM, said:

Read everything there is on metamechs.com and please please please stop bringing catapults to cw

I did, and I won't. CPLT and HBK-4J are my main damage dealers, albeit Catapult is situational as I need to be extra careful to avoid any CQC. HBK is faster and has a good compliment of MLs so it's not as big a coward as Catapult.
Assaults are good at tanking for the team, but not much else. Once you're seen, you're dead. One game when I got 900 dmg and 5 kills with MPL Banshee notwithstanding, those were stupid enemies.

Lately I've been dropping two Stalkers and two Hunchbacks. The typical game picture is 150-250 damage dealt with each of the Stalkers, then HBK-4J deals 500-600, and if we're winning, HBK-4G cleans up damaged enemy mechs with AC/20 for little damage but lots of kills.

Looking forward to dropping with clans. Their Ebon Jaguars and Timberwolves with 600+ meters LPLs and 300+ meters MPLs are superior to any IS assaults. I can see how clan direct fire mechs work, avoiding return fire with their speed and range.

Edited by DavidStarr, 26 March 2016 - 11:55 PM.

[Tarogato]

Krocodockle, on 26 March 2016 - 09:08 PM, said:

Read everything there is on metamechs.com and please please please stop bringing catapults to cw

Catapults can actually be pretty darned good in CW.

CPLT-C1 [3x LPL]
CPLT-K2 [4x LL]
CPLT-J [5x LL]

Those builds are at least as capable as well-built Thunderbolts. They'll be even better after the rescale.

[DavidStarr]

I did a 2xUAC/5 + 2xLL K2, later upgraded to 2xUAC/5 + 4xMPL after lots of trial and error. It was a beast! Starting to regret I sold it. Not great for CW either, though. Frankly, I'm not sure which IS mechs are great, since all of them either have no damage or no survivability...

Edited by DavidStarr, 27 March 2016 - 01:21 PM.

[Neput Z34]

While selecting a drop deck for CW, keep in mind the different maps that are out there. Cold or Hot, Long Range or Short Range, and select the drop deck to fit the map and your own play style.

For example, JM6-DD, HBK-4G is better for maps like Sulfurous Rift or Vertic Forge, and not so good on Boreal Vault, unless you are about to engage in "GET OF MY LAWN !!!" mode. *(Hide the ammo at your on discretion)

Another example STK-5S is great for maps like Grim Portico, and not so much for Vertic Forge or other hot maps. ( One with out the AMS) STK-5S Could also be refitted in another "universal Stalker build" but it is better suited for STK-3H

Too bad you got rid of the STK-5M, that is the closest to a C-Bill Misery weapons layout you could get to, barring the AC20. (Asymmetric build)