29 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

...is to buff Gauss by decreasing the cooldown so we could have a viable weapon against flamers when "heatlocked" since Gauss doesn't create heat.

Nerfing flamers is a bad idea since nerfs are bad, not to mention that many people have been starting to use flamers already (they will hate it when their weapon becomes less useful).

[MrMadguy]

Yeah, "You still can use Ballistics, when you are at 90% heat" from Russ - is complete BS. What is 10% of Heat scale? 4-6 heat? It's just 2-3 shots. Tried to shot AC/2s, when was stun-locked by TBR Flamer boat - overheated instantly after 1st shot.

Thx God, nobody uses this dam Flamers anyway. And even if they use - I don't care. Stun-Death-Quit-Next match. Game is terrible anyway. Being one-shot by some laser vomit, swarmed by invulnerable Lights, NARCed and wrecked by LRMs in a matter of few seconds or being stunned by Flamer boat - no difference.

Edited by MrMadguy, 18 February 2016 - 02:00 AM.

[Wintersdark]

6+ heat. We basically start at a heatcap of 60, and run to 80ish, so 6-8 heat.

An AC2 is .8 heat to fire. You can fire a few shots, but do have to be careful. You can even fire ac20 rounds.

You can chainfire SL, SPL,ml,etc.

Just don't group fire, and be careful. Or move away, 90m remember.

With that said, Russ was talking about dropping the heat cap to 85%, and that'll probably help.

[Widowmaker1981]

No.

I do not agree with the only mechs able to defend themselves from flamer lights being ones with Ballistic weapons. This heatlock mechanic needs to go, or at the very least heat up the firing mech so they 1) cannot do it for long and 2) cannot fire other heat generating weapons at the same time without shutting down.

[Wintersdark]

It SHOULD be heating the firing mech, but that's currently avoidable. Russ has said he's looking at fixing that (forcing a minimum burn time so you can't popular and avoid the increasing heat mechanic that should cap how long you can today someone) and that he's looking at dropping the flamer heat cap to 85%.

[Otto Cannon]

There's no need to 'nerf' flamers. Just change the effect from stunlock by added heat. They'd still be useful if they slowed target cooling by 30% instead, and you could get rid of the exponential heat cost to fire them that way too. Wouldn't they be more fun if you could constant fire without macros or trigger timing? Don't allow stacking effect with more then one flamer and it's sorted- a brawling tool worth the hardpoint that doesn't stunlock but gives an advantage up close. They can then tweak any further balance issues by just changing the cooling reduction %.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Maybe I need to play more post patch, but Flamers don't really seem to be a problem. I definitely think the Gauss is fine as is. If there was a change I'd make to the gauss, it would be to give it more health.

[Widowmaker1981]

Wintersdark, on 18 February 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

It SHOULD be heating the firing mech, but that's currently avoidable. Russ has said he's looking at fixing that (forcing a minimum burn time so you can't popular and avoid the increasing heat mechanic that should cap how long you can today someone) and that he's looking at dropping the flamer heat cap to 85%.

Doesnt look that way



Note where hes saying 'If flamer mechs have to stop flaming because of heat, they wont use flamers'

He seems to think the current situation is fine. Because apparently he has an IQ comparable to his shoe size.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 18 February 2016 - 02:50 AM.

[Lily from animove]

MrMadguy, on 18 February 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

Yeah, "You still can use Ballistics, when you are at 90% heat" from Russ - is complete BS. What is 10% of Heat scale? 4-6 heat? It's just 2-3 shots. Tried to shot AC/2s, when was stun-locked by TBR Flamer boat - overheated instantly after 1st shot.

Thx God, nobody uses this dam Flamers anyway. And even if they use - I don't care. Stun-Death-Quit-Next match. Game is terrible anyway. Being one-shot by some laser vomit, swarmed by invulnerable Lights, NARCed and wrecked by LRMs in a matter of few seconds or being stunned by Flamer boat - no difference.

somene should still tie russ onto a chair and let him paly a locust for 3 days in a row. He can then show us how greta his ballistics work on this mech.

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 02:49 AM, said:

He seems to think the current situation is fine. Because apparently he has an IQ comparable to his shoe size.

He just lacks the knowledge of how his game actually works in mechanics, therefore he just makes bad conclusions, the highest IQ is worthless if you base your logic on wrong knowledge.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 February 2016 - 05:25 AM.

[MrMadguy]

I don't care - game becomes worse and worse with every patch. I thought, I would quit and switch to other game yesterday, but some real life business pushed this moment towards next week. This game is paid, so I must be sure, that I'll have enough time to play it, before paying for it.

[Wintersdark]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 02:49 AM, said:

Doesnt look that way



Note where hes saying 'If flamer mechs have to stop flaming because of heat, they wont use flamers'

He seems to think the current situation is fine. Because apparently he has an IQ comparable to his shoe size.

read his last tweet. He's been talking about a heatcap of 80-85%, that's what he's referencing there.

The .5s burn minimum is from one of his tweets too, to address the tapping exploit.

[pwnface]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 02:49 AM, said:

Doesnt look that way



Note where hes saying 'If flamer mechs have to stop flaming because of heat, they wont use flamers'

He seems to think the current situation is fine. Because apparently he has an IQ comparable to his shoe size.

I guess he has some really small feet then.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

80-85% and .5s would make things more balanced, sure. Only that would make little difference between having 1 or 12 flamers as they heat you up almost instantly anyway (will be less with lower cap). 85%, 0,5s AND decreased heat damage by about half would make flamers viable but not useless/op IMHO.

Hope it won't end up with nerfing flamers back to hell they came from. They open so much cool mechlab and strategic possibilities

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 18 February 2016 - 03:42 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 02:49 AM, said:

Doesnt look that way



Note where hes saying 'If flamer mechs have to stop flaming because of heat, they wont use flamers'

He seems to think the current situation is fine. Because apparently he has an IQ comparable to his shoe size.

Jesus christ, does he know how bad hes looking to his customers?

[Troutmonkey]

Flamers are far from OP, but the heat mechanic on the user side is broken.

Personally I'd be happy with 0 heat flamers that cancel out dissipation. Meaning that you can fire the flamers for as long as you like but you can't cool down yourself. 1 Tonne for a 90m ranged weapon that does no damage needs to be able to something

[Black Ivan]

PGI how they live, they don't play their own game.

[Wintersdark]

All I can say is, chill. Do t get all worked up and frothy about it. Just let things settle, see how things are. If they settle in a not good place, push for mild, incremental nerfs.

Above all, please don't freak out and get Flamers nerfed back into utter uselessness for another 4 years. I'm still not convinced they are OP, though I do agree the exploit needs fixing and they could use a slight reduction in the max heat cap to allow more weapons to be fired (even if just one at a time; we can all chainfire after all). But even if I'm wrong, and I've just not been attacked by flamer mechs doing it right, I'd far rather a fixed 90m range weapon be mildly OP for a little while before being gently nerfed into usefulness rather than going back to the "Mounting it on your mech actually makes your mech worse" box they used to be in.

[Lily from animove]

Black Ivan, on 18 February 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

PGI how they live, they don't play their own game.

not everyone of the dev tema needs to play the game, but those responsible for balance decisions should actually as part of their job paly the game to a proper amount of time to be able to understand how it works at all and how it is played by the community. Without this you will hardly be able to undertsand what your theoretical changes will do to the practical implementation of the communities use.

We predicted it BEFORE it happened life. And it happened as we predicted it. So you can see this wasin theory already an expected result for the chosen values. Which then should by a guy or small team repsonible for balance be prevented in advance. But that would have required what I said first..

[SovietArmada]

"You still can use Ballistics, when you are at 90% heat"

Edited by SovietArmada, 18 February 2016 - 05:35 AM.

[Mystere]

Hit the Deck, on 18 February 2016 - 01:43 AM, said:

The Answer To The Flamer Question

is to keep your distance.

Wintersdark, on 18 February 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

6+ heat. We basically start at a heatcap of 60, and run to 80ish, so 6-8 heat.

An AC2 is .8 heat to fire. You can fire a few shots, but do have to be careful. You can even fire ac20 rounds.

You can chainfire SL, SPL,ml,etc.

Just don't group fire, and be careful. Or move away, 90m remember.

With that said, Russ was talking about dropping the heat cap to 85%, and that'll probably help.

Say what? PGI is getting weak-kneed again?