77 replies to this topic

[Jon Gotham]

Johnny Z, on 16 February 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

I'll bite. You never heard of Clan easy mode? Just started playing did you?

Actually, he has been playing for quite awhile. I ran into bullet when he first started. One of his first posts was was humble questions on how to get better. He started out in IS lights and has proven his substantial abilities over and over again. I saw him grow from timid been to a true facemelter.
You are WELL out of your league with this one Johnnyz. Enough with the anti clan rhetoric.

[Almond Brown]

xMADCATTERx, on 16 February 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

it sometimes takes less to make chassis worse over others. This is a game of "changing" numbers after all.

FTFY

[Bulletsponge0]

DovisKhan, on 17 February 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

You can't deny that IS Lights got shafted, when Clan Lights were already way better


Mediums are meh, kinda balanced, at least the Cicadas got structure buff for the range taken away.


Heavies/Assaults mostly didn't have any huge range quirks anyway.



So what this patch did is **** the mechs that needed those quirks the most and those that didn't need it - didn't rally suffer much.

This is what I don't understand about the clan v IS argument. People arguing about how bad the IS mechs are always lump ALL IS mechs into their argument, but seem to ignore most clan mechs. Or is your statement an argument that mechs like the mist lynx are better than every IS light? Sure the Clans have some good mechs, so does the IS. Sure the IS has some bad mechs, but so do the Clans. The top mechs on either side really aren't far apart at all in terms of balance, and the bottom mechs are equivalent to each other also.

[DovisKhan]

Bulletsponge0, on 17 February 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

This is what I don't understand about the clan v IS argument. People arguing about how bad the IS mechs are always lump ALL IS mechs into their argument, but seem to ignore most clan mechs. Or is your statement an argument that mechs like the mist lynx are better than every IS light? Sure the Clans have some good mechs, so does the IS. Sure the IS has some bad mechs, but so do the Clans. The top mechs on either side really aren't far apart at all in terms of balance, and the bottom mechs are equivalent to each other also.

While your statement is correct for every weight category above Lights, with Lights it's not quite the case.


Clan Lights:

Arctic Cheetah is everything you want a light mech to be

Jenner IIC is one tough cookie as well

Kit Fox - the only ssrm "resistant" light and overall pretty sturdy, 3 AMS, JJ, ECM and dps equivalent to 7 IS medium lasers, a little on the slow side though, but still faster than the IS equivalents

Adder - a light that can make twin ppcs work, pretty neat, not that impressive, but you can't call it **** by no means

Mist Lynx - while it's a bit underwheling compared to the guys above, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5cb3f6c60c2024a < for example this build is still better than most IS Lights, good damage, range, 120+ speed post tweak is great as well


^ Try that and then try crap like Raven-4X, then you'll know how huge the power gap is among the worst of what IS can offer vs the worse Clans can offer.

Worst of Clans is still above average for IS.

[Bulletsponge0]

DovisKhan, on 17 February 2016 - 05:51 AM, said:

While your statement is correct for every weight category above Lights, with Lights it's not quite the case.


Clan Lights:

Arctic Cheetah is everything you want a light mech to be

Jenner IIC is one tough cookie as well

Kit Fox - the only ssrm "resistant" light and overall pretty sturdy, 3 AMS, JJ, ECM and dps equivalent to 7 IS medium lasers, a little on the slow side though, but still faster than the IS equivalents

Adder - a light that can make twin ppcs work, pretty neat, not that impressive, but you can't call it **** by no means

Mist Lynx - while it's a bit underwheling compared to the guys above, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5cb3f6c60c2024a < for example this build is still better than most IS Lights, good damage, range, 120+ speed post tweak is great as well


^ Try that and then try crap like Raven-4X, then you'll know how huge the power gap is among the worst of what IS can offer vs the worse Clans can offer.

Worst of Clans is still above average for IS.

I'll take a wolfhound, panther, locust or commando and absolutely wreck the mist lynx, kit fox and adder. The firestarter is on par with the Jenner IIC and only slightly below the AC.. (only because of durability)

Speed is life for lights...and the majority of Clan lights simply lack the speed that IS lights can achieve. They carry more firepower, but lack the cooling to use it as effectively as an IS light (how hot is a 6 SPL AC compared to an 8 SPL firestarter?) and can't escape trouble like an IS light can.

[DovisKhan]

Bulletsponge0, on 17 February 2016 - 05:57 AM, said:

I'll take a wolfhound, panther, locust or commando and absolutely wreck the mist lynx, kit fox and adder. The firestarter is on par with the Jenner IIC and only slightly below the AC.. (only because of durability)

Speed is life for lights...and the majority of Clan lights simply lack the speed that IS lights can achieve. They carry more firepower, but lack the cooling to use it as effectively as an IS light (how hot is a 6 SPL AC compared to an 8 SPL firestarter?) and can't escape trouble like an IS light can.

8 SPL firestarter with an STD engine moves at the same speed as Mist Lynx, + he has to get 2x closer than the Mix to unleash the same firepower, I'd trade that for being 50% more hot

[iLLcapitan]

Wolfways, on 16 February 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure Mad Dog is bottom dog. That's why it's mad

You got it wrong and as a plus it's even in the wrong threat.
Post-patch MDD is even more of a beastly brawler than before thanks to the structure buffs.

[BigBenn]

Being able to mount massive amounts of lasers is a quirk all by itself.

Some of you little boys really need to grow up and take a look a the bigger picture. The good thing about PGI/MWO is that nothing is in stone. The game will adjust as needed and right now the quirks are a bit too generous, imo.

I think quirks should apply more towards mechs that rely on mixed weapons systems. Having to use lasers, ballistics, AND missiles on a mech because the chassis doesn't allow for enough firepower in just one or two systems....those are the mechs that need quirks. Not the Top Dog, etc. Furthermore, this all inclusive quirk system is a bit much. I think PGI should focus on the weapons the stock variant has and quirk them and them alone. Some mechs, like the iconic Warhammer -6R have all been rendered a shelf mech thanks to the lack quirks where they are needed.

I think the WHR-6R should have the PPC velocity quirks it has (+50%), a range quirk for MG's (+50%), and a range quirk for SRM6 (+40%). PGI should, imo, really lend the quirks to **wanting** to use the weapons tied to the stock chassis. The CTF-IM is a perfect example of how quirks should look, imo.

[mogs01gt]

xMADCATTERx, on 16 February 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

removing those quirks with a wide spread magic wand means many dozens of mech variations never being used again. It's sad what they do to their game.

Over quirking bad mechs is never the answer. There was a reason why people referred to Thunderbolts as Tturds before they were over quirked.

[Bulletsponge0]

DovisKhan, on 17 February 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

8 SPL firestarter with an STD engine moves at the same speed as Mist Lynx, + he has to get 2x closer than the Mix to unleash the same firepower, I'd trade that for being 50% more hot

I can run a stock urbie at 30kph (+-) but virtually nobody does that... picking an example that very very few people use isn't a way to make your point

[DovisKhan]

Bulletsponge0, on 17 February 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

I can run a stock urbie at 30kph (+-) but virtually nobody does that... picking an example that very very few people use isn't a way to make your point

(how hot is a 6 SPL AC compared to an 8 SPL firestarter?) < This was your question and I answered it. Firestarter will either have to extremely cut on damage or have an XL engine (**** survivability) or cut speed to ~100kph, either way it'll be weaker at least in 1 aspect

While Clan vs IS differences blur in the higher wieight ranges, in the Light category perks are the only thing making IS mechs even remotely competitive to Clan mechs


And no, you can't "run" a 30kph urbie, you will not be in the fight, cause you move at half the speed of everyone, your team is basically 11 v 12 if you run a 30 kph urbie, minimum viable speed is 48, to keep up with non tweaked assaults

Edited by DovisKhan, 17 February 2016 - 10:26 PM.

[Paigan]

Antares102, on 16 February 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

BLR-1S
Was so much fun with 4x LPL
Now BLR-3S is "better" than BLR-1S but i wont use it.

Wubhawk prevails!

MUHAHAHAHAHA

(Note the destroyed Mech in the back)



edit: Oh and it even got a tiny range buff from the new TC .

Edited by Paigan, 18 February 2016 - 12:14 AM.

[Ace Selin]

cSand, on 16 February 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

If someone can't play XX chassis after it lost 5-10% energy range quirks, the level of suckage is not gonna be mitigated by any quirks

Im sure in the lower tiers you can play anything, but in the highest tiers every small benefit counts, and the Top Dog has lost any advantage it had. It ranks lower than most heavies now. But you keep playing just to have fun, not everyone wants to try to excel or anything, i get that.

TexAce, on 16 February 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

you purchased it because of quirks?

LOL

I purchased it because i thought it would be able to compete with Clan heavies, It cant. it gets steamrolled by any decent Clan heavy player. And with no negative energy gen quirks and only having energy hard points its really a sad mech. I at least want to be on level footing with other (Clan) players, playing the Top Dog handicaps me and my team, id rather not do that.

Edited by Ace Selin, 18 February 2016 - 05:03 AM.

[STEF_]

The sad thing about the top dog is that.....they don't need to sell it anymore.
So it has been nerfed to death, because you "should" buy other "good" mech for $....or at least, you should have the illusion of "p2w"

[Bulletsponge0]

DovisKhan, on 17 February 2016 - 10:24 PM, said:

(how hot is a 6 SPL AC compared to an 8 SPL firestarter?) < This was your question and I answered it. Firestarter will either have to extremely cut on damage or have an XL engine (**** survivability) or cut speed to ~100kph, either way it'll be weaker at least in 1 aspect

While Clan vs IS differences blur in the higher wieight ranges, in the Light category perks are the only thing making IS mechs even remotely competitive to Clan mechs


And no, you can't "run" a 30kph urbie, you will not be in the fight, cause you move at half the speed of everyone, your team is basically 11 v 12 if you run a 30 kph urbie, minimum viable speed is 48, to keep up with non tweaked assaults

but the firestarter doesn't have to cut damage. IS has higher heat cap than Clan.. IS DHS heat capacity is 1.5 while clan DHS is 1.1.. Higher heat cap means you can fire more weapons before overheating. Clans have a slightly faster heat disssipation than IS (0.15 for Clan, 0.14 for IS) but that doesn't offset the difference in heat capacity. Not to mention IS lasers are cooler and have shorter durations.

Clans can hit you with tremendously high alpha strikes, but can't sustain that for long before heat really becomes a problem. IS has generally lower alphas, but can sustain their rate of fire much longer. Its a trade off.

[CDLord HHGD]

Quirks as implemented destroyed what little balance we had.

Quirks should ONLY support the stock loadout of the variant they are applied to and vulnerable structures like the HBK hunch and the OMG TOO BIG QKD and CPLT ears.

They removed a buff and you call it a nerf? LOL.

[Ultimax]

Kaeb Odellas, on 16 February 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

What bugs me most is that they didn't seem to consider what that this would screw over builds that didn't even use ERLLs. Or if they did consider it, they didn't care. Hell, a lot of the mechs affected were already mediocre or outright bad even with the range quirk. It's all so disappointing.

I told Russ this in a back and forth, more than once, before the changes went live.

He knew, and didn't care.

His vague answer was that balance isn't finished yet.

So, shelve your mediocre turds and play whatever is best.

[Wildstreak]

Don't think the Top Dog is useless, still waiting for someone to try the new Flamer thing and stunlock a target with it while shooting it using something like this Dog or this Dog. Lotta people talk about Flamer stunlocking with Lights failing to realize what other Mechs can use it. A Thunderbolt can tank some damage while holding a target in Flamer stunlock and shooting it too. Not the only non-Light that can try this with recent changes.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 February 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

You underestimate the power of range and duration quirks on these mechs and how important they are to ERLL poke, especially on the RVN-3L vs RVN-4X (4X is much better).


Just because you had never used them on some of these mechs, doesn't mean they weren't useful with ERLL......

No, I go by the fact that far more often than not when playing, I do not find myself in situations where the excessive range given to the ERLLs ever mattered.

I know there are ERLL builds for them but like I said, I do not find myself in a majority of situations where I need it. Therefore, wanting more range for ERLLs does not matter to me.

It is this amazing thing called repositioning.