82 replies to this topic

[Douglas grizzly]

I am finding that medium mechs are essentially useless unless they are missile support boats for a couple reasons. 1 they can turn inside a light and 2 they cant really do much to a heavy or assualt mech 3 one good volley and you go down. 4 it also no matter what i do, enemy seems to get hits and they dont show up anywhere. if they can shoot me then i should be able to see them and return fire.

[Leone]

Odd, most of my mediums are brawlers, designed to punch above their weight class and take on heftier mechs.

~Leone.

[Weyen]

Douglas grizzly, on 20 February 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

4 it also no matter what i do, enemy seems to get hits and they dont show up anywhere. if they can shoot me then i should be able to see them and return fire.

Are you getting messed up by ECM, maybe? ECM is a game changer for lights and mediums, IMO. It's really difficult to play a short range medium without ECM, I find.

[SnagaDance]

Not my experience at all. I've got some very successful skirmishing Centurions, while I've got some good brawling Hunchbacks. Meanwhile my Cicada's tend to be long range energy mechs.

Then again, sometimes a mech doesn't click with somebody. I know a lot of people that love Shadowhawks but I just can't get them to work, no matter the wide variety of builds I've tried. They just don't move in a way that works for me. *shrug*

You need to keep your role though and not get illusions of grandeur. Try to go one on one with a Heavy or Assault and you will likely lose (given equal skill). Support one of your own Heavies or Assaults versus one of theirs though.... and you'll be dishing out the pain.

[Douglas grizzly]

ecm has been a major headache especially bec i cant counter it. i would not mind brawling but i cant close close enough and even then i get targeted by several mechs. very frustrating experience.

[epikt]

Don't over-estimate ECM. It does not stop bullets and it does not make your enemies blind.

If you have trouble with closing distance, which by the way you can't do alone, maybe you can try mid range builds. For example there are lots of pretty strong IS mediums with 3 large lasers (or similar loadouts).

[Nokadota Aririnkichiri]

Blackjack BJ-3 2xPPC's power and range.

[Douglas grizzly]

i have developed a fondness though for the griff 3m with a tag and 4 lrm 5. I have been very effective with that mech, but my frustration is getting other variants mastered and getting hits on the go particularly against lights. That being said i helped to core a mauler when the other mech was a commando using hero variant.

[mailin]

Post your build. Maybe we can help tweak it. As far as medium builds, I have a Nova that uses all short range weapons with no ECM and it's a beast. Without ECM you need to have map awareness as well as awareness of where your friends are and where the enemy is and is going. It really is quite a lot to master, but you will get better.

Also, on your Griffin, do you have any backup weapons?

[IraqiWalker]

Douglas grizzly, on 20 February 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

I am finding that medium mechs are essentially useless unless they are missile support boats for a couple reasons. 1 they can turn inside a light and 2 they cant really do much to a heavy or assualt mech 3 one good volley and you go down. 4 it also no matter what i do, enemy seems to get hits and they dont show up anywhere. if they can shoot me then i should be able to see them and return fire.

I think the problem here lies in how you close distance. Are you by any chance extending away from the group? If you're a medium, and you're the first one rounding a corner, then something has gone horribly wrong. You shouldn't do that as a new player. I've been playing this game for years, and trust me when I say I know how to pilot mechs. I don't peek around a corner in a medium mech unless I am REALLY confident in my ability to mitigate damage with that mech.


Mediums also excel as either flankers, or escorts. I prefer to play the hunchbacks as flankers, or escorts. Picking 1 or 2 big mechs to stick with, cover their back, and kill what they shoot at. I've also stepped in front of some of our assaults on several occasions to catch an alpha that was meant to kill them, giving them the chance to score a kill, and survive, instead of dropping dead.

Mediums are the most versatile weight class in the game. I know heavies can do a lot, but none of them (other than maybe the Dragon) can come close to fulfilling what mediums can do. Yes, you're somewhat fragile, but you should be nimble enough to dodge a lot of it, and spread the rest. As far as firepower goes, mediums shouldn't pack more than one or two BFGs. Get used to not killing things with one alpha, but instead dancing around them and picking them apart.

I use Target Info Gathering and Seismic in mediums more than in any other weight class for that reason. Especially the brawling ones.

[MechWarrior4023212]

Douglas grizzly, on 20 February 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

ecm has been a major headache especially bec i cant counter it. i would not mind brawling but i cant close close enough and even then i get targeted by several mechs. very frustrating experience.

Just because you can not target does not mean you can not shot them, Artemis allows for no lock firing.

Tag defeats ECM as well.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

So I wrote a long response anf lost it.

The substance was this: you are doing it wrong.

[Roland09]

Douglas grizzly, on 20 February 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

[...] i would not mind brawling but i cant close close enough and even ***then i get targeted by several mechs.*** very frustrating experience.

No offense, but this, above, seems to be the problem. When you are in a brawly medium (IS specimen would include the Hunchbacks -4P and -4SP, for example), have you tried shadowing your team's assault mechs? When they engage, that's the moment you pounce.

I know this might take patience, especially when your team is just hunkering down, but it's still preferable to rounding a corner on your own and staring down an enemy lance.

[mailin]

Ember Stormfield, on 20 February 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

Artemis allows for no lock firing.

This is wrong. Artemis allows your missiles to spread less when you have line of sight on the target and also allows for faster locks. You could always fire lrms without target locks. It is called dumb-firing and in that case the lrms go where the reticle was when they were fired. Which, BTW, can be a viable option if an enemy mech is standing still but under ECM.

[Zookeeper Dan]

Douglas grizzly, on 20 February 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

i have developed a fondness though for the griff 3m with a tag and 4 lrm 5. I have been very effective with that mech, but my frustration is getting other variants mastered and getting hits on the go particularly against lights. That being said i helped to core a mauler when the other mech was a commando using hero variant.

Part of this is the mech you are using. The Griffin has two great varients, the 2N and 3M. The third best, Sparky is an MC only mech. The other two aren't ideal in terms of hard points and quirks. I had a blast leveling the 2N and 3M and then got a 1N because I didn't want to spend real money on the Sparky. It was a real grind getting basics for the 1N, I'd have one good game followed by 4 bad ones. Not any fun. I was very glad I don't have to elite it before mastering the other 2!

But in general you have to brawl differently in a medium and use your speed. Wait until you know where the enemy mechs are and then use cover to approach from the side or behind. Hopefully by that time your target will be engaging someone else. And don't brawl too long. As soon as you start taking more damage than you can dish out disengage and look for another target.

Edited by Zookeeper Dan, 20 February 2016 - 04:59 PM.

[The Mecha Streisand]

Douglas grizzly, on 20 February 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

I am finding that medium mechs are essentially useless unless they are missile support boats for a couple reasons. 1 they can turn inside a light and 2 they cant really do much to a heavy or assualt mech 3 one good volley and you go down. 4 it also no matter what i do, enemy seems to get hits and they dont show up anywhere. if they can shoot me then i should be able to see them and return fire.

Mister Grizzly:

KEEP AT IT! I mean NOTHING at all negative by this, but you ARE pretty new here, and the learning curve to this game is STEEP A. F. Learning to solo most of the raid bosses in Borderlands 2 was NOTHING compared to the move from tier 4 to tier 3 in MWO (my alt account, Sister RAbbi). It's a LONG, TOUGH grind. But it WILL start falling into place sooner or later.

As someone above said, ECM is not to be overestimated. It USED to be the "God Box", and at one time we were limited to only a small number of ECMs per team. Those days are long gone. A couple of quick tips on countering ECM:

Use your Griffin's TAG on the ECM mech. You get all its info while TAG is on it, like it has no ECM at all. It also helps out your friendlies, and helps your self a lot too with that LRM-5 loadout (also helps with Streak SRMs, IIRC). One ton, one slot, and its range for IS mechs is a good indication for what we like to consider the 'acceptable' use of LRMs (250-600m range, and the longer number is kinda pushing it). And the TAG-designated mech gets no HUD indication that it's being countered by TAG, so that's BONUS!

Use a Beagle (or Clan, as appropriate) Active Probe. This counters ECM within its range, and improves LRM/SSRM performance considerably. It's considered by many to be mandatory equipment for Streak boats and LuRMishers alike.

Swap a LRM-5 for a NARC beacon. NARC requires little face time compared to TAG, offers similar (if not identical, but I don't have it memorized) bonuses, and has quite a duration after you break Line-of-Sight (unlike TAG, which loses its bonus QUICKLY). This counters ECM (if the affected mech is carrying it, though it may in turn be protected by a separate ECM-equipped mech's 90m radius).

Carry UAV consumables! If you can afford to drop the CBills (they're not THAT expensive, but it cuts if you're trying to grind money; may be able to WIN some in the frequent weekend challenge events), they're super. As the medium LuRMisher, you'd drop a UAV while falling back ahead of an advancing enemy, or if/when you get jumped by an enemy light. This counters ECM for any mechs within its radius, and allows you targeting data without line of sight.

Also, try to get friendly with the light mech pilots, and work together with any of them that you can. (HINT HINT) If they're carrying a UAV and find you a juicy target, they may just be willing to pop that thing for you and help you tear it down. A couple good quick LuRMishers with a light or two in support, can be a serious game changer.

There are some straight-up badass mediums in the game, though. Blackjack (even post-nerf) is really good. Maybe still a top-tier mech in some range brackets, across all weight classes. The nerf bat doesn't seem to have hit it too hard.

Storm Crow ring a bell? Because it's one BAD mofo!

Honestly, I like the HBK-IIC(O) and -IIC-A (haven't tried the preorder variant yet). Not the most survivable thing, but DAMN that firepower!

Centurion is the grandfather of the modern brawler. This mech IS the origin of torso-twisting and dead-side shielding. PERIOD.

Even the SadCat (Shadow Cat) has its roles, in which it's one of the game's better machines.

Novas can be devastating up-close.

My best single-mech KDR since the stat wipe? CRB. Don't know what it is about that chassis, but I've been ROCKING those sad-looking little beasties. (I'd so love a Zoidberg-ish paint job for one.)

There are a lot more, too, I'm sure. Mediums are fine. Give it time enough, and I'm sure you'll grow to love the weight class.

[Palor]

Douglas grizzly, on 20 February 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

ecm has been a major headache especially bec i cant counter it. i would not mind brawling but i cant close close enough and even then i get targeted by several mechs. very frustrating experience.

Buy Active Probes to counter ECM as a brawler, or as a LRM warrior.

[Rhavin]

If you are brawling in a medium and there is not an assault or heavy with you ....you are doing it wrong. Mediums are the support class in this game. That doesn't necessarily mean LRMs, it simply means they need to focus fire and move with other mechs to survive. they have a unique spot in that whatever a bigger mech is doing it will do better if a medium is there doing the same thing along with it.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Rhavin, on 20 February 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

If you are brawling in a medium and there is not an assault or heavy with you ....you are doing it wrong. Mediums are the support class in this game. That doesn't necessarily mean LRMs, it simply means they need to focus fire and move with other mechs to survive. they have a unique spot in that whatever a bigger mech is doing it will do better if a medium is there doing the same thing along with it.

Best way for a new (or new-ish) medium mech pilot to run, yup!

You'll be a bit smaller and faster than the heavies/assaults that you're running with. Use that increased mobility and relatively smaller size to your TEAM's advantage, and be the difference maker.

A mistake that a lot of us make, is feeling tied-down to a certain position relative to our teammates. You always stay behind and to the right of that Dire Wolf in your lance, or always follow that pair of Timber Wolves around and focus with them. It can be good for herd defense, and that'll work to a point in the lower tiers. But mediums are about the old saying...

"There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are very few old bold pilots."

Find a way to be BOLD, while still sticking around long enough to be OLD as well. So, not TOO bold, but not so timid as to grow old alone. Something like that.

And no matter what weight class you're in, PUSH means PUSH. If your mother had stopped pushing the first time it hurt, your life would be VASTLY more complicated (and internationally newsworthy) today than it is. But she didn't (unless it was a c-section, but I digress). MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, right?

Thanks, Mom, for setting the example for all mechwarriors to follow!

[Rogue Jedi]

In my experience Griffins are one of the best Brawling Mechs in the game, a 1N or 3M will usualy ^{(with me piloting anyway)} beat an Atlas 1v1 assuming both are fresh.

The 3M works great with 4 SRM4, the 1N is almost as as effective with 3 ML and 3 SRM4, the 2N with its ECM and 4m, 2E is also pretty good, and as the missiles are split between both sides that is the only Griffin I run with an XL engine.

I would ignore both the laser focused variants but that is just me.