82 replies to this topic

[jss78]

My experience with mediums is that they're not great in one-for-one comparisons. MWO gameplay tends to favour heavier mechs (because the maps are so small) or maybe a handful of meta light mechs. Hence this is what you mainly see out there.

If you go alone in a medium, you'll be vulnerable to both fast lights with strong short-range armaments, and heavies which outgun you but are almost as manouverable.

To me mediums in MWO are destined to play the second fiddle. Namely, to support the heavier mechs.

HOWEVER, this is a team game, and in a team game someone who plays the second fiddle damn well can be useful. For supporting heavier mechs mediums are in many ways the ideal weight class. Your speed may not be great, but it's easily enough to fluidly adapt to whatever the heavies and assaults near you are doing. And while your firepower is not exceptional, it's actually extremely useful when you focus fire with your team's heavy hitters.

There are exceptions like Cicadas which can in fact perform in the more independent scout/striker roles.

[DavidStarr]

I totally agree with the OP. Heavy mechs do all the same things better. The only medium that kinda plays OK to me is Stormcrow - because we all know how clan tech is OP

Edited by DavidStarr, 21 February 2016 - 10:19 AM.

[Eaerie]

I find mediums to be great mechs. And to top it off the queue time in a medium are usually real low unlike the heavy mechs which seem to have a 45% or higher play rate when i attempt to hop in one.
I run a variety of builds for mediums also, from a fast close range striker (hunchbacks, sparky) to long range sniper support builds (couple blackjacks) to everything in between and have had great luck running them.
But there are a couple rules i tend to follow when playing them.
ALWAYS use terrain to your advantage (this goes for all mechs)
1. never get caught out in front of your team alone
2.never shoot from the same place more than 2 times.
3. use your speed and maneuverability as best you can.
4. never stand still and face tank something, it is a losing exchange (exception is the all LRM mech, get in his face and stay there)

and one that i have personally been spending more time working on is be patient. You dont have to rush into the enemy guns blazing. stick with the team. help ward off the pesky lights while the heavies and assaults set up, then find your spot, go on a flank and start harrassing. if a mech turns your way lead him back to the team while using the terrain as cover.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Rogue Jedi, on 21 February 2016 - 05:50 AM, said:

In my experience Griffins are one of the best Brawling Mechs in the game, a 1N or 3M will usualy ^{(with me piloting anyway)} beat an Atlas 1v1 assuming both are fresh.

The 3M works great with 4 SRM4, the 1N is almost as as effective with 3 ML and 3 SRM4, the 2N with its ECM and 4m, 2E is also pretty good, and as the missiles are split between both sides that is the only Griffin I run with an XL engine.

I would ignore both the laser focused variants but that is just me.

And just to make a point, can we presume the reason you can take out an Atlas by yourself is you use your superior mobility which is afforded by a medium mech?

[Rogue Jedi]

Yes the mobility combined with the Griffins general tankyness, great torso twist and the fact that I can loose half the Mech ( RA, LA, L T, and 1 leg) without loosing much firepower

[S 0 L E N Y A]

And there you have it

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Rogue Jedi, on 21 February 2016 - 05:50 AM, said:

In my experience Griffins are one of the best Brawling Mechs in the game, a 1N or 3M will usualy ^{(with me piloting anyway)} beat an Atlas 1v1 assuming both are fresh.

The 3M works great with 4 SRM4, the 1N is almost as as effective with 3 ML and 3 SRM4, the 2N with its ECM and 4m, 2E is also pretty good, and as the missiles are split between both sides that is the only Griffin I run with an XL engine.

I would ignore both the laser focused variants but that is just me.

Its not surprising that a brawler mech can out brawl a scout mech in a 1x1... Its unfair to use mechs from different role catagories for comparisons.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 21 February 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Its not surprising that a brawler mech can out brawl a scout mech in a 1x1... Its unfair to use mechs from different role catagories for comparisons.

Atlas is a scout mech?
That is Lryan speak.

[Rogue Jedi]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 21 February 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Its not surprising that a brawler mech can out brawl a scout mech in a 1x1... Its unfair to use mechs from different role catagories for comparisons.

Boogie138, on 21 February 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

Atlas is a scout mech?
That is Lryan speak.

just to clear this up for the benefit of new players who are not familiar with some of the Battletech humor

the 4 Atlas "Steiner Scout Lance" is a joke based on Steiner Mech preferences, the heavier the better, as in they consider 100 ton Mechs to be good for recon work, and prefer to avoid using anything lighter.

The Atlas is not a scout Mech.

[PigsinBlankets]

You have to get used to the fact that in a Medium you don't have the room for error you do in a Heavy.
Never be the first one round a corner, never get to far away from your friends (you are not a scout) and never fight fair.
Find a Fattie (ideally two or three) - and be it's (their) best friend, escort it, keep the red team lights off it, and shoot at what it shoots at. It will be your bullet magnet, very few pilots think of shooting the Cent/Enforcer/Hunchback when there is Atlas with an AC20 and 3 SRM 6+ Artemis in their face. So get to their side and take pieces off them with your big gun AC20 / 10 / PPC/ 2XSRM6+A (your choice). Gang up on the opposition and don't fight fair. When your fatty falls get out of there using your speed to move behind cover and find another fattie, or accept death like a warrior (by sneaking up behind the enemy team and murdering as many as you can before they notice you)

Edited by Asrael999, 22 February 2016 - 02:02 AM.

[jss78]

Asrael999, on 22 February 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

You have to get used to the fact that in a Medium you don't have the room for error you do in a Heavy.
Never be the first one round a corner, never get to far away from your friends (you are not a scout) and never fight fair.
Find a Fattie (ideally two or three) - and be it's (their) best friend, escort it, keep the red team lights off it, and shoot at what it shoots at. It will be your bullet magnet, very few pilots think of shooting the Cent/Enforcer/Hunchback when there is Atlas with an AC20 and 3 SRM 6+ Artemis in their face. So get to their side and take pieces off them with your big gun AC20 / 10 / PPC/ 2XSRM6+A (your choice). Gang up on the opposition and don't fight fair. When your fatty falls get out of there using your speed to move behind cover and find another fattie, or accept death like a warrior (by sneaking up behind the enemy team and murdering as many as you can before they notice you)

Yup, this is the thing to do with mediums! Take that AC20 hunchie (for example), find your team's Atlas, and play sidekick to him. Very few people will target you with that monstrosity alongside you.

Ignored AC20 hunchie, especially one that's focusing fire with an Atlas, equals lots of dead enemies.

[invernomuto]

What do you think of Griffin as medium mech?
Is it good for starting this weight class?

Thanks,
D.

[Rogue Jedi]

many people have said this regarding mediums but it applies to all Mechs,

if you want high score and to last the match do not go for one on one fights, take any Mech vs any other 1 Mech, it does not matter what you or your enemy is piloting, if you have a fair 1v1 fight at least half the time the winner will be in very bad shape unless there is a massive mismatch in pilot skill.

if I take a Griffin or Spider and hunt down a solo Atlas I have a good chance of killing it in ether, but the Griffin will likely loose 1 or more components and most of its armor, the Spider may get out of it without significant damage or the Atlas may get in a good/lucky hit and kill me.

even the mighty Timber Wolf ^{(arguably the best Mech in the game)} will likely take a lot of damage taking on another Mech 1v1 in a fair fight, however if it ambushes its prey it can be a very different story.

2v1 against any other Mech unless the 1 is realy good/lucky it will go down likely without causing serious damage to ether of the 2, 4v1 the 1 will go down, usualy without causing significant damage to any of the 4. if the 4 are e.g. an Atlas, Stalker, Timber Wolf and a Medium Mech, I am not sure what I would shoot first in that situation but it would not be the Medium.

if you want fun there is little better than a 1v1 dual in my experience but it does not usualy get you a high score or win you the match

[Rogue Jedi]

invernomuto, on 22 February 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

What do you think of Griffin as medium mech?
Is it good for starting this weight class?

Thanks,
D.

I think the Griffin would be fine for a new medium pilot, although the Hunchback is possibly a better choice due to its versatility and smaller size, each Hunchback variant is designed for a different role, so you get more variety in a single chassis, however here is a quick review of the Griffin.

Griffin is pretty good, it is Standard engine friendly as missiles and lasers are light, it can be fast (but 100+ will usualy require an XL engine if you want much in the way of firepower), it has one of the best Torso Twist ranges in the game, most variants can sacrifice the left side without loosing much firepower, all variants can mount Jump Jets, and when you learn to spread damage it is extremely durable.

there are a few downsides, it is tall, about the same height as the 100 ton Atlas but that is countered by the extremely narrow side profile, it cannot take Ballistic weapons, all variants have 6 weapon hardpoints, some Mechs can have more than twice as many hardpoints.

Also as with most Inner Sphere Mechs you will want at least 2 million on top of purchase price for the Double Heat Sinks and Endo Steel upgrades.

I personally recommend the 3M first, 4 missiles 2 energy hardpoints, all missiles are on the Right torso it comes with an XL engine ^{(lighter for the same speed but with the trade-off that if you loose a side torso you loose the Mech)}, and Double heat sinks so the upgrade bill will only be about half a million, it is almost double the price of the other variants but the cheaper upgrades make the usualy 4.5 million cbill XL engine work out to effectively only cost about 2 million cbills

The 1N with 3 energy, 3 missiles, all weapons right side

2N, 2 missiles in each side (4m total), 2 energy and an ECM

1S, 4 lasers in right arm, 2 missiles LT,

and Sparky, it is a Hero Mech meaning it costs real money but comes with a 30% boost to cbills earned while piloting it, it has 6 energy hardpoints split between both arms and side torsos.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 22 February 2016 - 04:16 AM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Griffins, Shadow hawks and wolverines. great 55 toners. One thing to remember, everyone will have a mech that just fits them more than others. Me it is the Griffins, but Shadow hawks and wolverines both rate up there. I have been sent on tremoline when the assaults spawned on the far side from F7 to delay them many times and in PUG drops to just run off on my own to kill them and maybe sneak back over and secure one or two more kills. Then again sometimes that backfired and I killed the 4, and noticed that it was 8 to 4 v1 and the rest of the team just died with 11 v8 odds.

This past weekend I ran a centurion for the first time in a long while. Ran out of ammo so I decided to be the stinker and run around in the enemy formation while popping a UAV and arty strike on the direwolf. One comment I was getting, "how in the world are you still alive." From my team over voip and the other team in chat. That was when I still had armor on everything, I lasted a lot longer by using them as meat shields against each other. Did I mention that it was in the loyalty variant, so no ML's. They did TK someone shooting at me, so I wish that could have been added to my score. I lost both arms, then side torso's and finally a leg before them finished me off. It took a looooot of kill'en to put me down, almost like cent's use to be try to leg them since hitting the CT is almost impossible. Or maybe it was the angles on the mech protecting me.

Different Mediums are good at specific things, or good at a few. Most of all being able to use terrain to move up on things without being spotted is a must learn, and when applied to the atlases OMG the speed at which people run away after they turn around is priceless.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 22 February 2016 - 06:02 AM.

[AmazingOnionMan]

I invested in the Griffins, and mastered the 2N. The only reason I keep it is because of the sometimes useful ECM.
I really don't like it much. It is huge, moves like a drunk slug, and isn't really good at anything except mediocre firesupport. The SRM20-variant can be a lot of fun, provided you're able to be in the right spot at the right time - otherwise not so much.
And that kind of hurts, because it is one of the old iconics from the TT. From what I understand the ShadowHawk and Wolverine suffer the same issues.
Give me a Crab anyday.

Edited by AmazingOnionMan, 22 February 2016 - 06:06 AM.

[invernomuto]

I'd like some advices for a medium mech that is "newbie friendly" like the Hunckback and has some variability among each variants but it's not the Hunchback.
Any suggestion? Wolverine? Shadowhawk? Griffin? Too many mechs and too few C-Bills and mechbay in his game

[Rogue Jedi]

AmazingOnionMan, on 22 February 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

I invested in the Griffins, and mastered the 2N. The only reason I keep it is because of the sometimes useful ECM.
I really don't like it much. It is huge, moves like a drunk slug, and isn't really good at anything except mediocre firesupport. The SRM20-variant can be a lot of fun, provided you're able to be in the right spot at the right time - otherwise not so much.
And that kind of hurts, because it is one of the old iconics from the TT. From what I understand the ShadowHawk and Wolverine suffer the same issues.
Give me a Crab anyday.

if you do not like it fine, but if it is too slow/sluggish what engine are you running? with a 175 275 or 300 engine it handles pretty well, with a 325 it handles like a Stormcrow except with better torso twist

invernomuto, on 22 February 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

I'd like some advices for a medium mech that is "newbie friendly" like the Hunckback and has some variability among each variants but it's not the Hunchback.
Any suggestion? Wolverine? Shadowhawk? Griffin? Too many mechs and too few C-Bills and mechbay in his game

I already gave you a good breakdown on the Griffins a few posts up, but as for Wolverine and Shadow Hawk,

Shadow Hawk has about 2/3 the twist range compared to Wolverine and Griffin, but all can mount Jump jets and most variants have a mix of energy, Missile and ballistic hardpoints.

As for Wolverine, I personally do not like it, I am not sure why because I love the Griffin which on paper looks very similar, the Wolverine only has 1 jumping variant, but it does have a ballistic variant, the Hero is energy only and 2 of the variants are just lasers and missiles.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 22 February 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[AmazingOnionMan]

Rogue Jedi, on 22 February 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

if you do not like it fine, but if it is too slow/sluggish what engine are you running? with a 175 or 300 engine it handles pretty well, with a 325 it handles like a Stormcrow except with better torso twist

The thing is I really really want to like it. But no matter how hard I try, it won't let me. I put in an 280 I had lying around. Any bigger and I feel it bites into my loadout, and I'm really not comfy running XL. Specially on an ammo-laden deadsider such as the Griffin.
Oh well, it sits there and occasionally gets taken out for a ride.

[Joe Decker]

Mediums are maybe the greatest Mechs in Game because you can let them run with every Lance (if you do Lance Organization). They can assist Assaults, join heavy Mechs and even be with Lights to hunt and kill other Lights. In our Team we treat them mainly as Flankers and their Job is to attack the enemy 12-Man from a Side so they turn and our Heavy/Assault Mechs can start their Push. On many medium Mechs you need Speed and also Jumpjets to take full Advantage of their Role in Game. If you play them too slow or too straightforward you just get picked apart in Seconds.

Similar to Light Mechs you need to find the vulnerable Spot in the enemy Teams Defense and then attack there.

Actually a medium 12 Man can make every enemy Team look stupid if they take Advantage of their Flexibility.

Edited by Joe Decker, 22 February 2016 - 07:49 AM.