40 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Kuritaclan, on 21 February 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

the feeling for the jump would be strange, if i remeber correctly.

"jump" XD Maybe you could hove-mech for 20 extra meters or something lol

[pyrocomp]

Wintersdark, on 21 February 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

Gravity is the same on all maps; what's more, it's massively higher than earth gravity (needed to make mech movement "feel" right).

The listed gravity on the map screen is just fluff.

Looks like it's not to make mechs 'feel' right, as it grossly overshoot the speed and hence strips the mech size feeling, but... Well, I'll have to check it, but, first, g looks to be appximately 32 length units per second squared (that somebody checked), that means that that length unit is a foot, not a meter. And this goes against all other things as mech sizes (well, all of them about 5-15% oversized, but not triple downsized, checked in game) and range calculations (checked in game). Should test speed (the Viridian bog is flat, so speed test can be made accurate).
Second thing is that... Atlas should fall from rest it's total height in more than 2 seconds. Imagine it on HPG with lower gravity for the Atlas to fall from platform for full 3-4 seconds and any jump capable mech will float in the air for half a minute. Will give more impression of the mech size, not sure how it will affect playability. Good point to look at, if g was simply wrong coded from memory by someone with basic education in inches/feet/ounce, not in meter/kg unit system, and PTS it afterwards aside from other things.
Is it fluff or not, it could've been done on error or deliberately to make 'right feel' according to someone's taste. Some more options to dig forum. Speed tests were made, as I remember, but long ago.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 21 February 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

Weirdly, neither are LBX autocannons.

I'd like to pretend LBX wasn't useless though.

[Pariah Devalis]

pyrocomp, on 21 February 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Looks like it's not to make mechs 'feel' right, as it grossly overshoot the speed and hence strips the mech size feeling, but... Well, I'll have to check it, but, first, g looks to be appximately 32 length units per second squared (that somebody checked), that means that that length unit is a foot, not a meter. And this goes against all other things as mech sizes (well, all of them about 5-15% oversized, but not triple downsized, checked in game) and range calculations (checked in game). Should test speed (the Viridian bog is flat, so speed test can be made accurate).
Second thing is that... Atlas should fall from rest it's total height in more than 2 seconds. Imagine it on HPG with lower gravity for the Atlas to fall from platform for full 3-4 seconds and any jump capable mech will float in the air for half a minute. Will give more impression of the mech size, not sure how it will affect playability. Good point to look at, if g was simply wrong coded from memory by someone with basic education in inches/feet/ounce, not in meter/kg unit system, and PTS it afterwards aside from other things.
Is it fluff or not, it could've been done on error or deliberately to make 'right feel' according to someone's taste. Some more options to dig forum. Speed tests were made, as I remember, but long ago.

"True earth gravity" would have done much to reduce the extreme effectiveness of the old poptarts, too. That hang time they would have in the air would mean that, while yes they could jump, shoot, and land back behind cover, that space in the middle would be longer than it is, currently, making them easier targets. Clay pigeons, anyone?

Back to topic, I actually like bullet drop. My issue is that the Clan UACs all drop at the same rate as the IS ACs. I'm struggling to understand how 4x 5 damage shells have the same drop rate as a single hunk of metal that does 20 damage, or 3x 3.33 damage shells as much as a single 10 damage shell. Related, projectile velocity wise it feels off for the same reason. Still fun weapons, though.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 21 February 2016 - 09:44 AM.

[LordNothing]

as a person who values good game physics, i like bullet drop and think map gravity needs to be there too. fix collision detection and make it so mechs can do 200+ kph.

[pyrocomp]

Pariah Devalis, on 21 February 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

"True earth gravity" would have done much to reduce the extreme effectiveness of the old poptarts, too. That hang time they would have in the air would mean that, while yes they could jump, shoot, and land back behind cover, that space in the middle would be longer than it is, currently, making them easier targets. Clay pigeons, anyone?

Back to topic, I actually like bullet drop. My issue is that the Clan UACs all drop at the same rate as the IS ACs. I'm struggling to understand how 4x 5 damage shells have the same drop rate as a single hunk of metal that does 20 damage, or 3x 3.33 damage shells as much as a single 10 damage shell. Related, projectile velocity wise it feels off for the same reason. Still fun weapons, though.

Ahem.
Acceleration of the free falling body does not depend on mass or speed of the body. Galileo Galilei.
So only time is and should be factored. If that is borked (never checked), then, well, 'BT/TT right feelings magic'. Can be tested I think.

[Pariah Devalis]

pyrocomp, on 21 February 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

Ahem.
Acceleration of the free falling body does not depend on mass or speed of the body. Galileo Galilei.
So only time is and should be factored. If that is borked (never checked), then, well, 'BT/TT right feelings magic'. Can be tested I think.

Oh, I know the drop by math is not dependant on the mass alone. I'm saying gameplay feel wise, it makes no sense that the projectiles that do less damage individually and spread more as a whole travel just as slow and drop just as much as single shell delivery systems.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 21 February 2016 - 09:56 AM.

[pyrocomp]

Pariah Devalis, on 21 February 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

Oh, I know the drop by math is not dependant on the mass alone. I'm saying gameplay feel wise, it makes no sense that the projectiles that do less damage individually and spread more as a whole travel just as slow and drop just as much as single shell delivery systems.

Hm, I, seem like, do not share your feelings.

[Escef]

Deathlike, on 21 February 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

Gauss is not affected by "bullet drop".

Yes, it is. It's just that the projectile speed is so high that by the time it reaches max range it has not dropped much.

[Novakaine]

They always have traveled in a ballistic trajectory.

[Mcgral18]

Escef, on 21 February 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

Yes, it is. It's just that the projectile speed is so high that by the time it reaches max range it has not dropped much.

The fact it hits the same pixel past 3KM (sensor blanks at 2500M) determines that is a lie.

Go to Alpine, test yourself. Use an ERPPC and an AC2 for comparison's sake.


AC2 has the same velocity, but HAS bullet drop. The Gauss does not.

[Dirk Le Daring]

As far as I can remember it has always been in the game.

[Troutmonkey]

pyrocomp, on 21 February 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Is it fluff or not, it could've been done on error or deliberately to make 'right feel' according to someone's taste. Some more options to dig forum. Speed tests were made, as I remember, but long ago.

It was done deliberately to improve the "feel" as mechs floated about and didn't feel right under real gravity. I remember someone at PGI confirming this once
Also back when fall damage was added and the HUD fall speed indicator was added it was originally in feet/sec, and then they changed it to m/sec without converting the value. I don't know if that was ever fixed as I never look at it

[pyrocomp]

Troutmonkey, on 21 February 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

It was done deliberately to improve the "feel" as mechs floated about and didn't feel right under real gravity. I remember someone at PGI confirming this once
Also back when fall damage was added and the HUD fall speed indicator was added it was originally in feet/sec, and then they changed it to m/sec without converting the value. I don't know if that was ever fixed as I never look at it

As if someone dropped in a mech in reality... Ok, I see the point, but I think that ... well, it eats away the scale. Might be a better 'feel' for the shooter, but. Oh well, let it be that way, but I'd looked on that 'feel' on some occasion like random gravtiy on maps. On HPG, however the 'correct' gravity might feel right, however.

[Mister Blastman]

Uh, since closed beta before even the founders were let in.

[Madcap72]

Deathlike, on 21 February 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

Gauss is not affected by "bullet drop".

Sure about that?

In this thread we learn who understands external ballistics, and who has zero clue about them.

[Mcgral18]

Madcap72, on 21 February 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Sure about that?

In this thread we learn who understands external ballistics, and who has zero clue about them.

The MWO Gauss is not affected by bullet drop.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Boogie138, on 20 February 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

Help me win an argument. When was bullet trajectory drop added to MWO?

Closed Beta, IIRC, and possibly even as early as Friends and Family Alpha.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Boogie138, on 20 February 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

Help me win an argument. When was bullet trajectory drop added to MWO?

It was certainly in the game when my friends and I started playing which was September 2012.

[Deathlike]

Madcap72, on 21 February 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Sure about that?

In this thread we learn who understands external ballistics, and who has zero clue about them.

It becomes painfully obvious when trying to shoot down UAVs with dakka. Gauss does not suffer from it.

Edited by Deathlike, 21 February 2016 - 07:09 PM.