306 replies to this topic

[Eider]

Aresye, on 21 February 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Until the HBK-IIC came out (which is mediocre at best), the Stormcrow was the ONLY Clan medium worth taking.

I base my opinions on in-game performance. If myself and a couple others in a small group of 3 can carry a team of solo pugs against 8-12man teams of KCom, MS, and 228, there's something seriously wrong with balance, which is exactly what was going on prior to this nerf.

After the patch, still running in the same small group, we'll face the same teams, except usually they'll win. It won't be a total stomp, but they'll usually achieve victory by the end.

Having played long enough and often enough to personally know most of the players on these teams, along with knowing their level of skill compared to my own, the balance right now after this patch feels just about right. I don't feel disadvantaged in any way playing on the IS side. I do however, feel I no longer hold a gigantic advantage in super long range.

You want to talk about folks needing their crutches? Look in the mirror.

It may sound harsh, but if you can't make IS works after this range nerf, it isn't the mechs. It's you.

Hilarious how you are so delusional. Lets talk about the mechs xl engines.. clan version can zombie IS one pops when a side is hit. Lets talk lasers. More damage and more range than IS counterparts without quirks. And the ones that had said quirks were just a few. So along with more damage we have to talk omnipods, where IS has set hardpoints you can bloat moar lasers on any clan. So thats more advantages clan had along with build variety. It may sound harsh, but clans are truelly easy mode. If one were to get more detailed that would not change.

[Appogee]

Aresye, on 21 February 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

You want to talk about folks needing their crutches? Look in the mirror. It may sound harsh, but if you can't make IS works after this range nerf, it isn't the mechs. It's you.

Who said anything about "can't make IS work"...? Not me. This discussion is about balance, not black-and-white dichotomies you conveniently invent and then put into someone else's mouth.

In fact, I play mostly Clan Mechs when pugging. That's how I know just how strong they already were, without needing de-nerfing or clubbing the IS.

Edited by Appogee, 21 February 2016 - 01:07 PM.

[Gyrok]

Eider, on 21 February 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Anyone who actually thought clans were not superior before had a screw lose. The old arguments always applied, xl engines longer natural ranges etc. Since their introduction tho it seems if anything can fight back clanners always cry and try to site lore, despite the fact that lore was thrown out the window day one. They will never achieve balance this way.


You realize clans are a crutch right? When have the holy trinity ever been dethroned? Timber, crow, dire.. now cheetos. Maybe when pedobear comes out.

The DW is not sitting on the throne now...and in case you missed it, the TW and Crow were almost never seen before this patch. Why? Because everyone was driving the overquirked, super OP, crazy laser spewing IS mechs that microwaved everything from 1000m.

[Vxheous]

Aresye, on 21 February 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Until the HBK-IIC came out (which is mediocre at best), the Stormcrow was the ONLY Clan medium worth taking.

I base my opinions on in-game performance. If myself and a couple others in a small group of 3 can carry a team of solo pugs against 8-12man teams of KCom, MS, and 228, there's something seriously wrong with balance, which is exactly what was going on prior to this nerf.

After the patch, still running in the same small group, we'll face the same teams, except usually they'll win. It won't be a total stomp, but they'll usually achieve victory by the end.

Having played long enough and often enough to personally know most of the players on these teams, along with knowing their level of skill compared to my own, the balance right now after this patch feels just about right. I don't feel disadvantaged in any way playing on the IS side. I do however, feel I no longer hold a gigantic advantage in super long range.

You want to talk about folks needing their crutches? Look in the mirror.

It may sound harsh, but if you can't make IS works after this range nerf, it isn't the mechs. It's you.

I can confirm Aresye's story about small group of SJR (3-5) + random pugs taking on decent organized groups of 8+ and winning with IS mechs prior to patch. Using the pugs as a shield, the small group of SJR was able to effectively utilize the IS burn duration quirks (Quickdraw, etc) and wreck havoc with precision peek-poke while minimizing face-time vs longer burning clan lasers.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 21 February 2016 - 01:20 PM.

[Eider]

Gyrok, on 21 February 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

The DW is not sitting on the throne now...and in case you missed it, the TW and Crow were almost never seen before this patch. Why? Because everyone was driving the overquirked, super OP, crazy laser spewing IS mechs that microwaved everything from 1000m.

News for you, those mechs are still widely used and the DW maybe replaced by the pedobear totem. 2nd as a clan you are telling me you could not hit 1000m range? LOL so i take it you are all taking only medium lasers? Come on, every clan mech can do that. And again you fail to address xl engines, weapon hardpoint bloating, weapons having more damage. Here is a quick tip, try the clan ERLL, try module, take targetting computer. Derp and pretend you cant hit over 1000m.

Almost forgot, try the zoom module. Makes sniping easier but if you have to choose between that or radar derp take the derp to derp moar.

Edited by Eider, 21 February 2016 - 01:19 PM.

[Splatshot]

Johnny Z, on 21 February 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

There are a few issues where Omni mechs have instant wins. There is no chance even in the least, or any possibility of being beat in some match ups. Its not about boo hoo.

A Streak Cro runs into any Inner Sphere light mech, the fight is over. No chance at all it will go for any length of time or that there is even the slight chance the Storm Crow will lose. Just one problem that cannot be ignored and making winning this argument so easy.

Why should a light mech stand any chance against a mech that was made specifically to kill it.
It gives up all range ability to have this advantage.

Can a Jeep destroy an IFV?

Edited by Splatshot, 21 February 2016 - 01:22 PM.

[Paigan]

Karmen Baric, on 21 February 2016 - 05:31 AM, said:

So now we starting to see Clan mechs with TC and ERLL on Boreal Vault, where i was getting damage a lot and didnt see any damage on same enemy mechs with my IS ERLL.
So this is level playing field where multiple Clan mechs can damage you and you cant get out door for fear of being killed and cant damage enemy with same (but IS) weapon.

On all other maps all you see is Timberwolves with SRM6 & lasers followed by some UAC mechs Streak Crows, SRM6 Dogs. Again with how fast Clan mechs move once these mechs are on you, your mech is dead. Apart from Atlas (you cant bring 3) to counter this, IS dont have any mech to fight against such a superior mech as the SRM6 jump capable Timberwolf. So again in close range in CW, the Clans always win, with 2 equal sides.

So i see this is what Clan players wanted, to win easy. You know what they say if you cant beat em because their mechs are better join em.

I played a 5xERLL WHK with TC months ago.
Best game was on attacking boreal with 2408 damage and no Mech lost .

Edited by Paigan, 21 February 2016 - 01:23 PM.

[Eider]

Gyrok, on 21 February 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

The DW is not sitting on the throne now...and in case you missed it, the TW and Crow were almost never seen before this patch. Why? Because everyone was driving the overquirked, super OP, crazy laser spewing IS mechs that microwaved everything from 1000m.

Did a little research for you.. here is a fun fact. Clan large pulse maximum range is 1200. Clan ERLL 1480.. sooo... how can you guys not hit at those ranges again?

More info: IS large pulse max range is 730 and its ERLL not quirked is 1350

Edited by Eider, 21 February 2016 - 01:25 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

Both Clan and IS have really good mechs. IS has more POS mechs and is very easy to make a really bad build (no ermlas and XL insta death).

IS mechs have more unique flavor, both the good and bad.

CW is not about IS or Clan. It is about using google to find out where the big units are dropping and changing factions, and then watching the seals press the defenders needed button when it pops up.

CW has nothing to do with Clan or IS balance. It is the mode.

[Eider]

Chuck Jager, on 21 February 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Both Clan and IS have really good mechs. IS has more POS mechs and is very easy to make a really bad build (no ermlas and XL insta death).

IS mechs have more unique flavor, both the good and bad.

CW is not about IS or Clan. It is about using google to find out where the big units are dropping and changing factions, and then watching the seals press the defenders needed button when it pops up.

CW has nothing to do with Clan or IS balance. It is the mode.

To an extent, a lot of the maps are also narrow corridor firing ranges where the laser with the most reach matters. But yes its bad.

[Gyrok]

Eider, on 21 February 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

News for you, those mechs are still widely used and the DW maybe replaced by the pedobear totem. 2nd as a clan you are telling me you could not hit 1000m range? LOL so i take it you are all taking only medium lasers? Come on, every clan mech can do that. And again you fail to address xl engines, weapon hardpoint bloating, weapons having more damage. Here is a quick tip, try the clan ERLL, try module, take targetting computer. Derp and pretend you cant hit over 1000m.

Almost forgot, try the zoom module. Makes sniping easier but if you have to choose between that or radar derp take the derp to derp moar.

You could hit mechs at 1000m, that was not the problem.

The problem was you were losing trades because more range + better beam duration = more dmg/tick from IS weapons.

Incompetent fools such as yourself cannot understand how anything clan was not OP, but the reality was that on the whole, prior to this patch, IS was OP...and you were all using your super structure quirked, over weapon quirked crutches.

Eider, on 21 February 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Did a little research for you.. here is a fun fact. Clan large pulse maximum range is 1200. Clan ERLL 1480.. sooo... how can you guys not hit at those ranges again?

More info: IS large pulse max range is 730 and its ERLL not quirked is 1350

Quirked IS ERLL range is 1822m @ 25% range quirk, some mechs had bigger range quirks than even that, meanwhile max CERLL range was 1628m.

[Chados]

Aresye, on 21 February 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

Actually, any IS mech with a 10% energy range quirk has pretty much the exact same range as the CERLL, however the IS version still has a lower ghost heat penalty and less duration. Combined with energy heat gen and laser duration quirks (both of which were not touched), the IS is still a better choice for long range.

Comp teams still prefer IS mechs over Clan for long range dropdecks. If you're finding yourself losing trades, that means the other player is better than you, because the range and damage per tick is exactly the same.

The server tick rate is 32 ticks/s. The IS ERLL with no duration quirks does 0.23 dmg/tick. The Clan ERLL does 0.23 dmg/tick. Get in a mech with a 10% laser duration quirk and suddenly your IS ERLL does 0.25 dmg/tick.


When was the last time you went to Metamechs? There's plenty of IS heavies in Tier 1:
http://metamechs.com...ists/comp-list/

In fact, there's IS heavies in both the comp and meta tier lists.
http://metamechs.com...meta-tier-list/

Next time, maybe spend the 5-10s it takes to load up a webpage before you open your mouth and let a bunch of BS spew out of it.

Reel that oversized ego in, boy. I got my facts off his group and solo queue pages. The day I made the post. You want to attack my position with facts because you got Clanner sympathies, do that. But notice that I don't attack YOU and call you out for spewing BS. You want to play nasty? I can play just as nasty. I choose the high road.

Edited by Chados, 21 February 2016 - 01:47 PM.

[Gyrok]

Chados, on 21 February 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

Reel that oversized ego in, boy. I got my facts off his group and solo queue pages.

BK is on the group and solo queue pages...

[Chados]

Gyrok, on 21 February 2016 - 01:47 PM, said:

BK is on the group and solo queue pages...

Not in Tier 1 unless he changed the page this afternoon, Gyrok. Or unless my dyslexia is kicking in, which if it is, I stand corrected.

Edited by Chados, 21 February 2016 - 01:49 PM.

[Eider]

Gyrok, on 21 February 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

You could hit mechs at 1000m, that was not the problem.

The problem was you were losing trades because more range + better beam duration = more dmg/tick from IS weapons.

Incompetent fools such as yourself cannot understand how anything clan was not OP, but the reality was that on the whole, prior to this patch, IS was OP...and you were all using your super structure quirked, over weapon quirked crutches.



Quirked IS ERLL range is 1822m @ 25% range quirk, some mechs had bigger range quirks than even that, meanwhile max CERLL range was 1628m.

Those quirks no longer exist bud and you can use target comp to get another 10% range, but i guess all this was way beyond you? And again this doesnt address the other issues. Figures a clan player just wants easy mode and only has tunnel vision eh? Super structure quirks? Hmmm still not same as clan xl or the fact that you can boat more lasers to have higher alphas etc. Hilarious how you forget your own mechs advantages. How about we try for actual balance instead of just crying clans should have it all?

Dont worry im sure they missed a few mechs in their blanket nerfs so you guys can cry about those next. Not sure how used they are.

Edited by Eider, 21 February 2016 - 01:51 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Alistair Winter, on 21 February 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

Another CW thread in the General Forum.

If you're so concerned with the status of laserpoking meta in Boreal Vault, take it to the CW forum, please.

I couldn't care less about this.

Agreed.

@OP: That being said, I can't say that Clans are better 'cause...they aren't...

Take it from this IS pilot whose Clan Mechs sit gathering dust amidst his regret that he ever purchased them.

[Bulletsponge0]

Eider, on 21 February 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Anyone who actually thought clans were not superior before had a screw lose. The old arguments always applied, xl engines longer natural ranges etc. Since their introduction tho it seems if anything can fight back clanners always cry and try to site lore, despite the fact that lore was thrown out the window day one. They will never achieve balance this way.


You realize clans are a crutch right? When have the holy trinity ever been dethroned? Timber, crow, dire.. now cheetos. Maybe when pedobear comes out.

the mist lynx is a crutch? Summoner? adder? kit fox? etc?

[Amsro]

Went clans before the buff. Found that killing IS was already fairly easy, now after patch a clan mech is a skittle dispenser and IS mechs are the skittles.



Going to try IS again next week. See if it's as bad as all that.

[Khobai]

I play clans so im fine with them being superior

[Eider]

Bulletsponge0, on 21 February 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

the mist lynx is a crutch? Summoner? adder? kit fox? etc?

when weapons have more damage/range yes. Its you not the mech, you already have superior weapons you should make them work. And btw my fav atm is my kitfox.. can you say anti lrm? How is it you clan players are so bad you cant make these mechs work? Im sorry they dont fully compensate for your lack of skills.