306 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

thing with targeting computers, if you use them you have to give up tonnage you could use for more weapons. you could stick on a lpl or ppc and an extra heat sink for what the mk vii targeting computer costs.

its actually good on the (very few) clan chassis without a lot of hard point inflation. so you can take the few weapons you have and make them better.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 February 2016 - 09:58 AM.

[Herr Vorragend]

Dunno what you mean, OP. I´m levelling my riflemen and got no problem so far with clan mechs. Balance seems okay.

[PUFNSTUF]

Zoid, on 21 February 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

With the +10% energy range quirk on many, many IS 'mechs, the base range for the ERLL is virtually identical (IS actually has a 2m advantage). You can boost the clan range another 10% for a whopping 7 tons and 7 critical slots, which puts the optimal range at 810 for IS and 888 for clan, with the range mod on both as well. You get a significantly lower burn time (again, with quirks) in exchange for a mere 78 meters of range, which is a trivial amount at that distance.

Balance among the good 'mechs is actually quite good now. Stalkers are still very powerful, but so are Timberwolves. We just don't have silly things like Blackjacks tanking more damage than an Atlas anymore.

And complaining about brawling vs clans with the superior IS heat efficiency, incredibly short burn time lasers, and ballistics is just funny.

Thank you for posting actual stats, which many people ignore and continue to ignore because they don't like facts if they contradict their opinions. I switched to IS after the most recent patch nerfs to see what it is like with the nerfs and I don't notice much difference. The interesting thing was listing in on the FRR Teamspeak and hearing the illegitimate complaining about broken clanners. When on the clan TS you would hear complaining about the IS ranges before the nerf (which yes it was needed on some chassis, but not on others, or not as drasticially). This was a very fair concern. Cue switching to FRR team speak, and I had someone complain that the clan lasers were like water hoses and the burn time never ended as well as the range being broken. As you stated, the range is much more comparable now, and after stating clan lasers burn longer which means you have to stay on target longer, the player was having none of that and continued to complain. Many players are truly clueless on how the 2 groups actually play/work and would rather complain.

Chados, on 21 February 2016 - 06:11 AM, said:

Don't forget the advanced zoom boosts the IS doesn't get, LOL. And how many IS heavy mechs are in tier 1 per Metamechs? Zero. It's HBR, TBR, EBJ. How many assaults? Zero. Cue the Dire Wolf. I'm just saying.

Well lets see, as per the recent patch - for extreme range tier one mechs, 6 IS, 4 Clan. About the same for Tier 2 for extreme range. Its also the same for long range. This does include mediums and assaults though, so if you only wanted heavies, its 1 Heavy cs 2 heavies IS to Clan for extreme range, and for tier 2 its 4 IS to 1 Clan. For Assault mechs, Tier 1 extreme range? Bunch of IS, ZERO clan. Tier 2? 1 IS, ZERO Clan. In long range, you have 3 IS assaults to one clan Dire Wolf. Instead of spouting of things as truths, and ending it sarcastically with "im just saying" at least check the facts first.

The only issue I would agree on with IS vs Clan is the changes to Targeting Comps may be a bit much, but tbh I would still keep the buffs but revert the change to the Targeting comp Mark I. Its easy to find space and tonnage for the Mark I but once you get into comps that take up more slots its much harder.

[Aresye]

Karmen Baric, on 21 February 2016 - 05:31 AM, said:

So now we starting to see Clan mechs with TC and ERLL on Boreal Vault, where i was getting damage a lot and didnt see any damage on same enemy mechs with my IS ERLL.
So this is level playing field where multiple Clan mechs can damage you and you cant get out door for fear of being killed and cant damage enemy with same (but IS) weapon.

Actually, any IS mech with a 10% energy range quirk has pretty much the exact same range as the CERLL, however the IS version still has a lower ghost heat penalty and less duration. Combined with energy heat gen and laser duration quirks (both of which were not touched), the IS is still a better choice for long range.

Comp teams still prefer IS mechs over Clan for long range dropdecks. If you're finding yourself losing trades, that means the other player is better than you, because the range and damage per tick is exactly the same.

The server tick rate is 32 ticks/s. The IS ERLL with no duration quirks does 0.23 dmg/tick. The Clan ERLL does 0.23 dmg/tick. Get in a mech with a 10% laser duration quirk and suddenly your IS ERLL does 0.25 dmg/tick.

Chados, on 21 February 2016 - 06:11 AM, said:

Don't forget the advanced zoom boosts the IS doesn't get, LOL. And how many IS heavy mechs are in tier 1 per Metamechs? Zero. It's HBR, TBR, EBJ. How many assaults? Zero. Cue the Dire Wolf. I'm just saying.

When was the last time you went to Metamechs? There's plenty of IS heavies in Tier 1:
http://metamechs.com...ists/comp-list/

In fact, there's IS heavies in both the comp and meta tier lists.
http://metamechs.com...meta-tier-list/

Next time, maybe spend the 5-10s it takes to load up a webpage before you open your mouth and let a bunch of BS spew out of it.

[Appogee]

Metamechs doesn't appear to have been updated after Paul's Great IS Dequirkening.

But all this talk of Clan buffs and IS nerfs misses the point of what really happened here...

Clans Tweeted Russ incessantly about the injustice of IS quirks, about how BJs were too well armored, about how Quickdraws, about Clan negative quirks etc. So Russ, using his usual scientific approach of responding to 'who complained the most', instituted not only IS nerfs but also Clan buffs.

Clan whining is OP. You want to nerf something...? Nerf Clan whining.

Edited by Appogee, 21 February 2016 - 11:35 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Imperius, on 21 February 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

Find where I cried about clan nerfs.



I'm all for equality on IS vs Clans but the whole boo hoo approach is getting old.

yet I look at your signature and it completely invalidates any claim you make, where you want a balanced game

[Davegt27]

wow 6 pages long

[PUFNSTUF]

Appogee, on 21 February 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

Metamechs doesn't appear to have been updated after Paul's Great IS Dequirkening.

But all this talk of Clan buffs and IS nerfs misses the point of what really happened here...

Clans Tweeted Russ incessantly about the injustice of IS quirks, about how BJs were too well armored, about how Quickdraws, about Clan negative quirks etc. So Russ, using his usual scientific approach of responding to 'who complained the most', instituted not only IS nerfs but also Clan buffs.

Clan whining is OP. You want to nerf something...? Nerf Clan whining.

Meta mechs was updated as I stated above. Look at the competitive listing. It was updated the 19th. Whining about blackjacks was justified. When the BJ is unanimously agreed upon by everyone its the best IS medium, if not best medium period, then it did indeed need some changes. It was far too tanky for a 45 tonner.

[Vxheous]

Johnny Z, on 21 February 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

Yep. That as much as anything else proves my point.

Heres the secret, when most players buy games they don't put them on easy mode. Many or most play hard mode.

Clans will continue to need the large units until there is better balance. They openly say they use every advantage. But to their credit they are giving the Inner Sphere opposition on the galaxy map.

The entire thing is a mess right now until there is more defined faction play anyway.

You just contradicted your whole argument about Clans OP with your statement. If Clans were so OP, they would not "need the large units" In fact, balance overall is in quite a good position right now, and CW map change has much less to do with balance, and more to do with population.

[Appogee]

PUFNSTUF, on 21 February 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

When the BJ is unanimously agreed upon by everyone its the best IS medium, if not best medium period, then it did indeed need some changes. It was far too tanky for a 45 tonner.

So by your logic, as the Storm Crow has been the best Clan Medium since forever, it too must "need some changes"...?

But no, this isn't about consistency. It's about handing the Clans back their crutches.

Edited by Appogee, 21 February 2016 - 11:57 AM.

[PUFNSTUF]

Appogee, on 21 February 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

So by your logic, as the Storm Crow has been the best Clan Medium since forever, it too must "need some changes"...?

But no, this isn't about consistency. It's about handing the Clans back their crutches.

Yea it could probably use changes, or at least more mediums for the clans so there is more to choose from. I personally prefer the Hunchback IIC over the crow because of its slots, but its lack of speed and xl survivability hurt it. Once again, IS and clan are much more balanced now then pre patch. If anything, IS had the crutch before.

[Gyrok]

Chados, on 21 February 2016 - 06:11 AM, said:

Don't forget the advanced zoom boosts the IS doesn't get, LOL. And how many IS heavy mechs are in tier 1 per Metamechs? Zero. It's HBR, TBR, EBJ. How many assaults? Zero. Cue the Dire Wolf. I'm just saying.

Umm...the Black Knight and Quickdraw would like a word with you about T1 heavy mechs.

[Novakaine]

PGI simply had too.
Clan Crybabies stopped playing as Clans and ran over to the IS side.
So the Clan Crybabies population virtually dried up in CW overnight.
I'd imagine now since Clan Crybabies have gotten their way the Clan CW population will return.

Edited by Novakaine, 21 February 2016 - 12:13 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Umm, IS mechs can still hold their ground well against clan mechs still, per say, my PPC blackjack, or my Crab, and even my Marauder.

What I will say though, is that the nerfs had little effect on the clan mechs performances, and this alone, puts us back to where we were before this.

There's more factors, but I'd be rambling then.

Edited by Scout Derek, 21 February 2016 - 12:20 PM.

[ShinobiHunter]

Scout Derek, on 21 February 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

Umm, IS mechs can still hold their ground well against clan mechs still, per say, my PPC blackjack, or my Crab, and even my Marauder.

How is the Marauder vs Timber? MAD seems to be pretty good, although I haven't played it yet.

[William Pryde]

Does this never stop? I felt balance was pretty good post patch, I feel it is pretty good after patch. It did irk me that IS got longer ranges, shorter burn times, and less heat gen (at least on certain chassis), but with good teamwork you could overcome it.

Maybe now, though, all the players who relied on super long range ERLL poking and do not have any other playstyle are going to have to learn how to deal with someone else having an equal/longer range then them again.

So basically anything that requires players to change their strategies and learn how to deal with new threats will immediately lead to a massive cry of 'Clans OP, IS OP!' because someone's easy mode just got taken away. How about instead of complaining less than a week after the patch release we instead give it a few weeks to really test things out?

[Scout Derek]

ShinobiHunter, on 21 February 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

How is the Marauder vs Timber? MAD seems to be pretty good, although I haven't played it yet.

Not bad, but in most fights the Timber WILL have the mobility on the Marauder, but it can't outlast it in a brawling fight, the Marauder has some tough Structure quirks to keep it going, add in it's Hitboxes, and the Timber has a run for it's money in that Scenario.

[Bulletsponge0]

What I'm sensing is a lot if IS players complaining about losing their "crutch" and then accusing Clans of needing crutches...

[Eider]

Anyone who actually thought clans were not superior before had a screw lose. The old arguments always applied, xl engines longer natural ranges etc. Since their introduction tho it seems if anything can fight back clanners always cry and try to site lore, despite the fact that lore was thrown out the window day one. They will never achieve balance this way.

Bulletsponge0, on 21 February 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

What I'm sensing is a lot if IS players complaining about losing their "crutch" and then accusing Clans of needing crutches...

You realize clans are a crutch right? When have the holy trinity ever been dethroned? Timber, crow, dire.. now cheetos. Maybe when pedobear comes out.

[Aresye]

Appogee, on 21 February 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

So by your logic, as the Storm Crow has been the best Clan Medium since forever, it too must "need some changes"...?

But no, this isn't about consistency. It's about handing the Clans back their crutches.

Until the HBK-IIC came out (which is mediocre at best), the Stormcrow was the ONLY Clan medium worth taking.

I base my opinions on in-game performance. If myself and a couple others in a small group of 3 can carry a team of solo pugs against 8-12man teams of KCom, MS, and 228, there's something seriously wrong with balance, which is exactly what was going on prior to this nerf.

After the patch, still running in the same small group, we'll face the same teams, except usually they'll win. It won't be a total stomp, but they'll usually achieve victory by the end.

Having played long enough and often enough to personally know most of the players on these teams, along with knowing their level of skill compared to my own, the balance right now after this patch feels just about right. I don't feel disadvantaged in any way playing on the IS side. I do however, feel I no longer hold a gigantic advantage in super long range.

You want to talk about folks needing their crutches? Look in the mirror.

It may sound harsh, but if you can't make IS works after this range nerf, it isn't the mechs. It's you.