306 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

cdlord, on 22 February 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

I was running my Riflemans this weekend and with the exception of one or two matches, I saw plenty of diversity.

1:1 the Clan mechs should be superior to the Inner Sphere.

If people are saying the Clan mechs are OP now, good. Now it's up to PGI to balance the numbers.

10:12 is ideal, but untested in MWO.
Another idea is to add "ghost weight" to clan mechs, make them +5 tons heavier on the backend code.

Both are untested in MWO and thusly the results are unknown. I do believe they are at least worth the test.

and if so what about solo queue? as long as the majority of gamers paly solo, where it is "one man, one mech" an assymetrical drop mechanic will not be focussed onto, because you will ruin balance for the majority of the playerbase.

further you really wanna give the MLX an additional 5t? the imbalance is bad chassis and good chassis, and the issue that the clanners have the best chassis available in the typical meta selection. It's just PGI's job to balance the clanmechs finally.

[Y E O N N E]

Gyrok, on 21 February 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

I was not asking for ultras.

I was asking for single shell, single projectile, non-ultra ACs.

As in the worthless clan ACs we have now that no one uses.

Well, I was trying to be "lore friendly" since Clans don't have Standards (huehuehue double entendre).

But, my point still stands. If you want ACs for your Clan 'Mechs that behave like current IS standard ACs, then they must weigh and slot the same. Honestly, I wouldn't have a beef with that and would probably run IS AC/10 on my EBJ; maybe see if I can't squeeze it on a Shadow Cat with 3x C-ERSL.

[Johnny Z]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 February 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

Well, I was trying to be "lore friendly" since Clans don't have Standards (huehuehue double entendre).

But, my point still stands. If you want ACs for your Clan 'Mechs that behave like current IS standard ACs, then they must weigh and slot the same. Honestly, I wouldn't have a beef with that and would probably run IS AC/10 on my EBJ; maybe see if I can't squeeze it on a Shadow Cat with 3x C-ERSL.

Ya but but but Clans are supposed to be better, anything but a straight up easy mode in everything isn't good enough for me because I am a Clanner waaaaa.



This was to good not to borrow it from earlier in this topic.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 February 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[Krivvan]

Remember that a ton of IS mechs just got massively buffed today. All of their accel and deccel quirks were apparently not actually functional the whole time since Dec. 1.

And no, Clans aren't straight up better even now. For CW and with the average player in mind, the differences aren't too significant. For comp, they're more even than before when IS was plain better. Hard to tell now.

Edited by Krivvan, 22 February 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[nehebkau]

Like I said before, some people won't call things balanced until they are able to kill everything else but not be killed themselves.

[Aresye]

DovisKhan, on 22 February 2016 - 04:14 AM, said:

^ that one AC carried the whole team, all the rest aside from a few were crap players, while on IS side everyone was pretty much of even level, says a lot when one guy in a light mech can **** the whole IS team, mostly about his damn good skill, but the mech played a part as well

I've carried teams in an Urbanmech before. Plenty of people have.

Remember the Urbanmech leaderboard? It wasn't any different than any other leaderboard. You played and played until you got that perfect match, where your team sucks, but the enemy team sucks just a little bit more, and you pull a 1000+ game in an Urbie with 8 or more kills. Then you do that over and over until you get 10 games like that.

You can't use post-match screenshots as any indication of balance.

[Deathlike]

Aresye, on 22 February 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

I've carried teams in an Urbanmech before. Plenty of people have.

Remember the Urbanmech leaderboard? It wasn't any different than any other leaderboard. You played and played until you got that perfect match, where your team sucks, but the enemy team sucks just a little bit more, and you pull a 1000+ game in an Urbie with 8 or more kills. Then you do that over and over until you get 10 games like that.

You can't use post-match screenshots as any indication of balance.

There are some discrepancies to a though where a bad mech with bad quirks will be the outlier.. though chances are that is in conjunction with the popularity of the mech (especially, the # of people willing to play it - like the Vindicator or Mist Lynx) in such type of challenges.

[Ted Wayz]

Krivvan, on 22 February 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Remember that a ton of IS mechs just got massively buffed today.

So what is your bar for "massive"?

[Nauht]

Ted Wayz, on 22 February 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

So what is your bar for "massive"?

Try figures of 30% up to 50% buffs on too many IS mechs to list.

I'm not complaining though. I think I'm gonna love my Victor B with its 50% acc/dec, 35% turn and 40% yaw speed buff.

Or my BH and even my MAD 3R which "only" received a 30% movement buff. The MAD was already a strong chassis to begin with. Again I'm not complaining too much as the MAD is one of my favourite mechs of all time and will continue to be.

So yeah, I'd say IS got a pretty big buff... even as to say massive.

Edit - oops. My bad. Didnt check the figures properly. The MAD 3R got a 50% acc/dec, 35%turn, 45% yaw buff while the BH2 got a whopping 65% movement buff. Wooooo....

Edited by Nauht, 22 February 2016 - 08:07 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

But remember everyone "dem clanz op yo."
Stick your fingers in your ears and keep chanting it, one day it will be true. Balance feels that bit better now... Not right but better.

[CDLord HHGD]

Lily from animove, on 22 February 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

and if so what about solo queue? as long as the majority of gamers paly solo, where it is "one man, one mech" an assymetrical drop mechanic will not be focussed onto, because you will ruin balance for the majority of the playerbase.

further you really wanna give the MLX an additional 5t? the imbalance is bad chassis and good chassis, and the issue that the clanners have the best chassis available in the typical meta selection. It's just PGI's job to balance the clanmechs finally.

Solo and CW queues are the easiest. You can force the matchmaker into true Clan v IS matches.

The problem with 12:10 lies in the public group queue and I don't have a good solution for it other than forgo it completely or use the ghost weight mechanic instead.

[Lugh]

Nauht, on 22 February 2016 - 07:48 PM, said:

Try figures of 30% up to 50% buffs on too many IS mechs to list.

I'm not complaining though. I think I'm gonna love my Victor B with its 50% acc/dec, 35% turn and 40% yaw speed buff.

Or my BH and even my MAD 3R which "only" received a 30% movement buff. The MAD was already a strong chassis to begin with. Again I'm not complaining too much as the MAD is one of my favourite mechs of all time and will continue to be.

So yeah, I'd say IS got a pretty big buff... even as to say massive.

Edit - oops. My bad. Didnt check the figures properly. The MAD 3R got a 50% acc/dec, 35%turn, 45% yaw buff while the BH2 got a whopping 65% movement buff. Wooooo....

Yes so, some IS mechs end up by and large, more maneuverable than Clan mechs, which is the opposite of what LORE dictates....

But oh well...

[xWiredx]

Funny to see all the IS players whining about something that feels more balanced just because they're all newer to the game and don't actually understand what is going on.

About a month ago, my unit switched to IS from being a hardcore clan-only unit in CW. Not being well-versed in IS in CW, we started with the things we saw enemy IS teams take a lot: stalkers, atlases, blackjacks, and the like. The difference was night and day. Never had we seen such short laser burn times or front-loaded damage with UACs or easy globs of damage with our missiles!

I mean, that's a bit of an exaggeration, most of us are founders and have plenty of IS mech experience. It's just that we hadn't really seen such a stark comparison between them and clan mechs before.

IS has better heat efficiency, better ACs/UACs, better LRMs, and quirks that still give individual mechs advantages. Clans have better overall damage and better range (in many cases only by a very small, negligible amount). There's no reason to whine when playing IS. Many of us clanners have put ourselves in your shoes and seen for ourselves that you do not have it as hard as you say you do.

[CDLord HHGD]

xWiredx, on 23 February 2016 - 05:50 AM, said:

Funny to see all the IS players whining about something that feels more balanced just because they're all newer to the game and don't actually understand what is going on.

About a month ago, my unit switched to IS from being a hardcore clan-only unit in CW. Not being well-versed in IS in CW, we started with the things we saw enemy IS teams take a lot: stalkers, atlases, blackjacks, and the like. The difference was night and day. Never had we seen such short laser burn times or front-loaded damage with UACs or easy globs of damage with our missiles!

I mean, that's a bit of an exaggeration, most of us are founders and have plenty of IS mech experience. It's just that we hadn't really seen such a stark comparison between them and clan mechs before.

IS has better heat efficiency, better ACs/UACs, better LRMs, and quirks that still give individual mechs advantages. Clans have better overall damage and better range (in many cases only by a very small, negligible amount). There's no reason to whine when playing IS. Many of us clanners have put ourselves in your shoes and seen for ourselves that you do not have it as hard as you say you do.

No arguments from me. I am glad the Clan mechs are more powerful than their IS counterparts. PGI just needs to figure out how to implement the other little tidbit of lore necessary; assymetrical matching (via 10:12 or ghost weight or other) and would be really cool if they could find a way to entice (read NOT force) you clanners to play like clanners (batchals, etc).

[Lugh]

cdlord, on 23 February 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

Solo and CW queues are the easiest. You can force the matchmaker into true Clan v IS matches.

The problem with 12:10 lies in the public group queue and I don't have a good solution for it other than forgo it completely or use the ghost weight mechanic instead.

Do that math I know it's hard. But a clan Star 5 mechs is = 2 lances 8 mechs. Which equals 1.6 mechs per clan mech.

Now for each IS mech on your team multiply by 1.6 for CW style re-spawns (ie limited) VIOLA balance (after you reset ALL the clan nerfs and make them truly 1.6 times better than IS mechs.

This way you get 12 v 12 (+ limited respawns with minimal effort).

OH NO LUGH WHO GETS THOSE RESPAWNS YOU NUBBINS?!?!?

There are two ways to handle this: 1) Vote and 2) Lowest BV

Since PGI has internal BV assessments done for each of the mechs for the quirkening the mechs that have the least internal BV according to pgi are awarded the respawns first. With a time limiter on it of say 30 seconds. If no least BV mech pilot is actually dead by that time then the respawn goes to first come first serve.

This way 12 clanners face 19 IS pilots using mechanics that are already mostly in place.

Feel free to link this solution to Russ, I'm at work and not on twitter at the moment.

[sycocys]

Respawns is a terrible mechanic.

[Jon Gotham]

xWiredx, on 23 February 2016 - 05:50 AM, said:

Funny to see all the IS players whining about something that feels more balanced just because they're all newer to the game and don't actually understand what is going on.

About a month ago, my unit switched to IS from being a hardcore clan-only unit in CW. Not being well-versed in IS in CW, we started with the things we saw enemy IS teams take a lot: stalkers, atlases, blackjacks, and the like. The difference was night and day. Never had we seen such short laser burn times or front-loaded damage with UACs or easy globs of damage with our missiles!

I mean, that's a bit of an exaggeration, most of us are founders and have plenty of IS mech experience. It's just that we hadn't really seen such a stark comparison between them and clan mechs before.

IS has better heat efficiency, better ACs/UACs, better LRMs, and quirks that still give individual mechs advantages. Clans have better overall damage and better range (in many cases only by a very small, negligible amount). There's no reason to whine when playing IS. Many of us clanners have put ourselves in your shoes and seen for ourselves that you do not have it as hard as you say you do.

The amount of clan players that have tried Is mechs in CW that I have been on a TS with that have said similar is quite a large number. It's the one common thing they all say. Especially those who have never played Is stuff before.
I still just cannot see how people can keep on saying Is tech is inferior, I have played both extensively and am an IS PLAYER primarily and I just can't see it. My IS mechs are GREAT right now.

[Lugh]

sycocys, on 23 February 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

Respawns is a terrible mechanic.

And yet it's the BEST way to represent numerical superiority of IS mechs over Clan mechs compared to the qualitative superiority of the Clans.

Very little needs to be done to implement it and it is LIMITED respawns, not wholesale YOLO typical shooter BS respawns.

[Mystere]

Lily from animove, on 22 February 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

and if so what about solo queue? as long as the majority of gamers paly solo, where it is "one man, one mech" an assymetrical drop mechanic will not be focussed onto, because you will ruin balance for the majority of the playerbase.

For the solo queue, force IS vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan, and IS vs. Clan fights. Allowing mixed tech fights was a bad idea in the first place.

[Lugh]

Jon Gotham, on 23 February 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

The amount of clan players that have tried Is mechs in CW that I have been on a TS with that have said similar is quite a large number. It's the one common thing they all say. Especially those who have never played Is stuff before.
I still just cannot see how people can keep on saying Is tech is inferior, I have played both extensively and am an IS PLAYER primarily and I just can't see it. My IS mechs are GREAT right now.

Because those players are Idjit Simpletons. They refuse to choose two Firepower, Maneuver, Durability. They want all three AND they want all their advantages to boot.