64 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 February 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Well he has a point.. Call it 90 tons and you have a Supernova

Don't encourage him .

I mean, why don't we just add 25 tons to a Marauder and call it a Marauder II! I wouldn't advocate that at all!...unless you guys think it is cool...I mean, then we could...I guess...If you want to.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 22 February 2016 - 08:05 AM.

[Product9]

PGI should let the community create models. They can pick whatever works for them and pay the content creator in MC.

I'd 3d model mechs for MC...

[Lucian Nostra]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 22 February 2016 - 05:55 AM, said:

guess Russ decided to reprioritize - there really is no other reasonable explanation

edit: you can rescale models with animation hookups and rescale for run speeds, that takes a couple of days

in fact, you can just take the entire thing even with weapons on it, and hook it up so it resizes all attached "modules" on it by the same multiplier - and then touch up the animations separately so run speed matches with actual travelled distance

but even all that, or ENTIRELY redoing a model from scratch, does not take a year - more like 2 months

so, it had to have been reprioritized

I think your partially correct in that if this was a prioritized than it would of come out already, the error is in thinking it was ever a priority for PGI in the first place instead of a when we get time to tinker with it we work on it. Look at stuff like variable geometry weapons started off strong than took forever to get around to the Awesome and Stalker (and the stalker looking like garbage) The Hero Timber Wolf STILL in the works. and now the rescaling.

Just clearly these aren't important matters and are going to take a looooooooooooong time to complete

[pbiggz]

You can tell which people here have never actually done 3d modelling, UV mapping, texturing, rigging, and animating, because all those people say it doesn't take a long time.

It can take close to 40 hours to rig a model with the right controls and constraints so that the animators (who are not 3d artists) can use those rigs properly.

I know this, because I've done it.

Edited by pbiggz, 22 February 2016 - 09:04 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Russ said, it takes a day per rescale.

He also already announced someoens started working on the NVA rescale. that was some weeks ago.

So either PGI days are reaaaaally long.

Or this person only gets 10seconds budget per day for working on the NVA rescale.

Bishop Steiner, on 22 February 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Well he has a point.. Call it 90 tons and you have a Supernova

would buy, just give it he cool looking Supernova arms the round ones with 3 hardpoints.

Edited by Lily from animove, 22 February 2016 - 09:26 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

Re-scale is one of the topics Russ brings up every town hall, but there has been nothing done that the end users can see. Russ has stated they have been looking into re-scaling everything but it will take time. In other words, it is a topic that just keeps getting pushed back for other game features.

[nehebkau]

MCVs, on 22 February 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

gets me to think about all the buzz about the mech-rescale program that the Devs have been pushing since last year?

was there any result? Or has all those buzz all went down the drain? for nothing?

If I am not mistaken THE NOVA was the overall winner for a re-scale... but I dont see any progress or announcement from the Devs that they are actually doing something about it?

Come on DEVs... do something or is there no money in it that you dont wanna bother?

PGI is stalled with the Atlas d**k-butt problem. If they make it bigger, other mechs will be envious, if they make it smaller -- the atlas community with rebel.

Edited by nehebkau, 22 February 2016 - 09:34 AM.

[Trainee]

I've been waiting on the Catapult to get done also. Was thinking January at the latest due to Steam release. Now, it's just a bunch of bs that it isn't done. Can't White Knight this one away.

Don't tell me it takes someone 6 months to make a complete mech, with additional variants. Which is sounding a lot easier than redoing the old ones. How long is it taking to get the Kodiak done? Every job I've been in, it gets easier as you keep redoing the same things over and over. If the Nova and Cat aren't done by the end of March, they haven't reprioritized; they've abandoned it.

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 22 February 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

Don't encourage him .

I mean, why don't we just add 25 tons to a Marauder and call it a Marauder II! I wouldn't advocate that at all!...unless you guys think it is cool...I mean, then we could...I guess...If you want to.

I want aware that the Marauder model was egregiously oversized so as to merit consideration....

[MeiSooHaityu]

Money talks.

The Catapult isn't out yet because the Catapult is an old asset. Brand new mechs in packages brings in money. Old mechs that there is little buzz for, that is not actively generating much revenue, isn't going to be a priority.

It will get done eventually, but it will always take a back seat to newer content (like new mech packs) that actively generate new revenue.

The new Catapult hero is their way of funding this endeavor, so I wouldn't doubt if that is also holding things up.

They also can't really release a Catapult Pack with Hero like new mechs (they can, but the other mechs are already out for C-Bills unlike new mechs), so PGI probably won't see a huge payoff like newer mechs as well.

So, the Catapult is more of a charity for the community and might generate ok revenue off a Hero mech...maybe, so I would assume the Catapult resize takes a back seat to other projects VERY often.

We will see a new Catapult eventually, but we will just have to be patient. Hopefully the Nova should be a bit less work and there won't be as many better money opportunities to distract them.

I'm not trying to be negative here, it's just a company has to prioritize what adds to earnings. This doesn't add to revenue as much, so it will take a while.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 February 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

I want aware that the Marauder model was egregiously oversized so as to merit consideration....

Consideration isn't warranted period.

Really, we should consider reclassifying a Nova as an Assault (against lore and modifying machines already in player's inventory) because it is big? Lol, nope. We can just resize the Nova, and enjoy it when it gets done...eventually.

P.S. Besides, the Marauder is oversized....in the booty. . It's an aircraft style mech. It's short from the front, and a mile long from the side. Still, I wouldn't seriously want it to be an assault lol.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 22 February 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[cazidin]

Speaking of the Catapult hero mech. Does the Buttlebee it have 4 or 6 Missile hardpoints?

[Mazzyplz]

you could add a variable to rescale in the engine, but the cockpit size would be too large or too small compared to normal mechs.. i am guessing this is why they'd want to remodel at least the cockpit part

[MeiSooHaityu]

Butter Bee has 4 missile hard points.

[cazidin]

Mazzyplz, on 22 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

you could add a variable to rescale in the engine, but the cockpit size would be too large or too small compared to normal mechs.. i am guessing this is why they'd want to remodel at least the cockpit part

We've seen what happens when you have a head too large for the body... the image of an ice ferret still haunts my very soul. IT'S LIKE A GARGOYLE HEAD GREW ARMS AND LEGS! /shudder.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lily from animove, on 22 February 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Russ said, it takes a day per rescale.

He also already announced someoens started working on the NVA rescale. that was some weeks ago.

So either PGI days are reaaaaally long.

Or this person only gets 10seconds budget per day for working on the NVA rescale.




would buy, just give it he cool looking Supernova arms the round ones with 3 hardpoints.

That's an average of a work day being devoted to a basic rescale. Doesn't include all the peripherals, like rigging. And since they've determined more than 5% scaling it's more efficient to simply rebuild the model, the NVA is very much not on the "simple" rescale side. Add in rerigging, UV maps, textures, etc, QA, Testing, bug fixes.....

And also for all we know the NVA might be finished. Since they are scale checking and fixing EVERY Chassis in game, it can take a bit. It's not like they're going to follow our each model as they are finished. We're either getting them all at once or in waves. Soonest would be March pass, regardless.

[Bishop Steiner]

Trainee, on 22 February 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

I've been waiting on the Catapult to get done also. Was thinking January at the latest due to Steam release. Now, it's just a bunch of bs that it isn't done. Can't White Knight this one away.

Don't tell me it takes someone 6 months to make a complete mech, with additional variants. Which is sounding a lot easier than redoing the old ones. How long is it taking to get the Kodiak done? Every job I've been in, it gets easier as you keep redoing the same things over and over. If the Nova and Cat aren't done by the end of March, they haven't reprioritized; they've abandoned it.

What's to white knight away? They didn't even start work on the rescale project until mid December, which they said from there start, it would not get looked into until AFTER the Origins Packs dropped.

Then holidays. Then their investigation led them to what I'd been telling and demonstrating to them for 3 years..... That almost all their scale is jacked. So now we are getting virtually every mech rescaled. While still pushing firestarter all other content, patches, bug fixes, CW, current Mech Packs, etc.

It's not like they ground to a halt, had every employee pick a mech and start rescaling. Also ask of this is information that's been on the forums for some time.

One doesn't need white knighting when one can use readilly available information and common sense, instead.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 February 2016 - 11:39 AM.

[Khobai]

honestly the game has more pressing issues than the nova needing a rescale.

like the fact that Clan/IS balance and CW are in shambles... IMO thats what PGI needs to be working on for a late march or early april release: Better Clan/IS balance and CW phase 3. So yeah its easy to see why rescaling the nova is low priority.

Edited by Khobai, 22 February 2016 - 12:11 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Khobai, on 22 February 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

honestly the game has more pressing issues than the nova needing a rescale.

like the fact that Clan/IS balance and CW are in shambles... IMO thats what PGI needs to be working on for a late march or early april release: Better Clan/IS balance and CW phase 3. So yeah its easy to see why rescaling the nova is low priority.

As is often pointed out, I don't think mech designers and modelers deal with faction and weapon balance. I'm sure other departments handle that.

Now the Archer and any new mech packs coming up, that might push the Nova and Catapult into a low priority condition.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 22 February 2016 - 12:20 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

We have to consider too, that the catapult presents a unique geometry problem. The catapult does missile hardpoints differently than any other mech. If you have a timber wolf with multiple missile hardpoints in the torso, the first missile will get installed into the over shoulder slot. The second missile will get installed against the torso. This is an extremely ugly arrangement. Face it, it looks awful. But, this arrangement allows for the installation of multiple missiles into their individual torso locations.

On the catapult, you have multiple missile hardpoints centered around the large boxy missile bay arms. These giant Mickey Mouse ears have a required missile bay door on them. It's very difficult for you to have truly variable geometry for those large missile boxes and doors. Especially so when you consider that some variants of the catapult have up to 3 missile hardpoints in each arm. In order for that to work properly, you have to be able to account for every variation of missile combinations a player might want to install in those arms. Then you'll have to prioritize exactly where you want those weapons to be arranged for each available combination. It's quite a lot to do. It's the reason, ultimately, why the catapult doesn't really have proper variable geometry right now.

This is a problem which will have to be fixed in the new model. There would be no point to creating a new catapult model if it does not have variable geometry for missile hardpoints in the arms. Beyond that versions like the k2 will have to be better represented with their ballistic and energy hardpoints so that the arms especially will not look so silly with lasers installed and you won't simply have large ballistic weapons duct taped to the side of the mech.

The catapult has always been a problem child. It really shows the limitations of variable geometry, and how difficult it is to make things look right and still allow a large degree of freedom when building your mech. It is not likely that the community will be willing to accept another fundamental failure to get the catapult right, so PGI will have to invest as much time and energy as it takes to do right by the mech.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 22 February 2016 - 03:27 PM.