44 replies to this topic

[Coralld]

MoonUnitBeta, on 22 February 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

Have they not already dropped the bullet count and decreased the delay between each shot?

They indeed did which helped them out a lot. Thing is that they did this for both regular and ultra. Ultras right now work fine and if some people can't make them work well that's their problem as all ulras work fine other than the UAC2 which could us a reduction in jam chances.

Right now there is no reason to use standard Clan ACs, so if PGI did the same thing like last time but only for standard Clan ACs then they would be actually worth while.

Edited by Coralld, 23 February 2016 - 09:00 AM.

[Sandpit]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

I do realize this would complicate tech balance if PGI decides to stop using quirks to bandaid the tech balance gap, but in the interim it would be nice to have more consistent AC options.

Which is why it won't happen. We tried to get PGI to stop with the band-aid crap years ago, it's too far ingrained into the game at this point

[LordNothing]

every clan ballistic (with the exception gauss, machine gun) is obsoleted by its equivalent ultra. lbs need to not suck and should be dropped a ton accross the board. cacs need to be either canned or made useful somehow.

[Metus regem]

Mystere, on 22 February 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

Just do away with the Clan "ACs", whether or not Clan LB-Xs will eventually support dual modes.

Or they could just make a copy of the LB's and add [Solid shot] or [cluster shot] during the load out screen, so that you have to make a choice as to take one or the other, or both types of guns and two types of ammo...

[Raso]

Coralld, on 22 February 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

Or PGI can buff the projectile velocity so they are super accurate. Possibly even drop the bullet count per trigger pull. So C-AC2 fires a single round, AC5 fires a single round, AC10 fires 2 rounds, and AC20 fires 3.

This. I like this. This makes sense to me. Make them distinct.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Coralld, on 23 February 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

Ultras right now work fine and if some people can't make them work well that's their problem as all ulras work fine other than the UAC2 which could us a reduction in jam chances.

I wouldn't say they are fine, but they at least have a niche now, but then again, I'm the person that wants to see projectile velocity across the board buffed (with maybe a slight nerf to burst delay on the cUACs to balance things out) so that quirks aren't need to use things like ACs/PPCs effectively outside of a few select mechs.

[LordNothing]

i would actually want cacs to become super accurate sustained rapid fire weapons with an interruptible burst mechanic (except the 2, which would be a continuous rapid fire weapon). you can stop the burst in the middle on button release, after which time you force cooldown.

cac2 fires a 1 damage shot (no burst) with a 0.36 second cooldown, 2k velocity.
cac5 fires a 4 round burst, 1.25 damage, 0.36 second interval followed by a 0.5 second cooldown, 1400 velocity.
cac10 fires a 5 round burst, 2 damage, 0.4 second interval with a 0.8 second cooldown. 1200 velocity.
cac20 fires a 6 round burst, 3.333 damage, 0.5 second interval, 1.5 second cooldown, 900 velocity.

one thing to note is that (with the exception of the 2) bursts are longer than the cooldown with a big interval between shots. the velocities are really high, so not a whole lot of target leading. burst intervals on big guns are slow enough to roll damage across armor and get out of the way. dps is high. annoyance factor is high because you can keep dakka on enemies for a long time.

[CDLord HHGD]

I support this 100%. "Regular" ACs aren't a part of Lore for Clans anyways. LBX or UAC or bust. I can't remember the last time I seen a clanner mount a regular AC anyways.

[Khobai]

Quote

"Regular" ACs aren't a part of Lore for Clans anyways.

Yeah because LBXs are supposed to be a straight upgrade to regular ACs. Clans dont need regular ACs because LBX should be able to fire both slug and cluster munitions.

But since PP cant make ammo swapping work for LBX then they should make clan ACs work exactly like IS ACs and only fire a single shot.

Its simple really:

CUACs should fire in bursts
CLBXs should fire cluster rounds
CACs should fire single shots like ISACs

Edited by Khobai, 23 February 2016 - 10:16 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Khobai, on 23 February 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

Yeah because LBX is supposed to be a straight upgrade to regular ACs because it should be able to fire slugs.

If PP cant make ammo swapping work for LBX then they should make clan ACs work exactly like IS ACs and only fire a single shot.

True, there's no excuse for not at least having a fire mode toggle for either (or both) Clan weapons. If they can't do it for LBX, then change the Clan UACs to fire single slugs and give a toggle to turn off "doube tap".

[Mystere]

Metus regem, on 23 February 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:

Or they could just make a copy of the LB's and add [Solid shot] or [cluster shot] during the load out screen, so that you have to make a choice as to take one or the other, or both types of guns and two types of ammo...

See, at least this could have been an imaginative "filler" which PGI unfortunately could not even be bothered to think up in the first place.

Edited by Mystere, 23 February 2016 - 10:16 AM.

[LordNothing]

they could have made it a mech upgrade like artemis. you got two sets of launchers and 2 sets of ammo for all those lerms. they could have adapted that system to ballistics easily (you would have to buy different lb cannons and ammo, but thats a small price to pay to make the game suck less).

Edited by LordNothing, 23 February 2016 - 10:24 AM.

[Metus regem]

Mystere, on 23 February 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

See, at least this could have been an imaginative "filler" which PGI unfortunately could not even be bothered to think up in the first place.

If anything it could be the first step to ATM's (Short Range/Standard/Extended) for versions, as well as the IS MML system... but really I just want them to use it, so I could have the AP ammo for IS standard AC's....

[LordNothing]

a lot of weapons in lore have alternate ammo types, so maybe its time to get a coder in there and figure out how to make it happen. even the most disgusting poorly commented spaghetti code can be deciphered and modified to suit your needs.

i have a feeling the biggest problem is ui, how to handle a lot of ammo switching on a weapon to weapon basis. say you have inferno and standard ammo for your srm and you have scatter and single shell lb ammo. you might have a lot of different ammo types to handle in worst case scenario builds.

a catch all ammo cycle button would get annoying fast. if you wanted to mix scatter and single shot ammo that would make it impossible.

if you use groups to set the ammo type for that group you could have one group to fire canisters and another to fire shells. highlight a weapon is a group and hit an ammo toggle key to switch that weapons ammo while firing that group. i kind of think there should be a delay to ammo switching though and that would make it possible to switch weapon ammo instantly. if you have a lot of ammo that also gets difficult because you would simply run out of groups.

you could also have a separate ammo cycle key per group (say shift 1-6), and any weapons in that group cycle ammo, thats probibly the fastest way to switch ammo in the heat of battle, but if you have multiple ammo switching weapons in that group you wouldn't be able to set them individually (unless they were in another group). but that still seems manageable.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordNothing, on 23 February 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

i have a feeling the biggest problem is ui, how to handle a lot of ammo switching on a weapon to weapon basis. say you have inferno and standard ammo for your srm and you have scatter and single shell lb ammo. you might have a lot of different ammo types to handle in worst case scenario builds.

a catch all ammo cycle button would get annoying fast. if you wanted to mix scatter and single shot ammo that would make it impossible.

It would add to the UI quite a bit since it would probably have to be a separate panel like the weapon list (with highlighting of currently selected ammo for the currently selected group/weapon), but as far as controls, it could be fairly easy, just make it so you can cycle based on selected group/weapon (so one button per) and done. If you need more controls than that, you probably have too many ammo types/weapon groups to begin with.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 23 February 2016 - 11:01 AM.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 23 February 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

See, at least this could have been an imaginative "filler" which PGI unfortunately could not even be bothered to think up in the first place.

LordNothing, on 23 February 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

they could have made it a mech upgrade like artemis. you got two sets of launchers and 2 sets of ammo for all those lerms. they could have adapted that system to ballistics easily (you would have to buy different lb cannons and ammo, but thats a small price to pay to make the game suck less).

Metus regem, on 23 February 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

If anything it could be the first step to ATM's (Short Range/Standard/Extended) for versions, as well as the IS MML system... but really I just want them to use it, so I could have the AP ammo for IS standard AC's....

just another example of community ideas ignored unfortunately.

Lots of things PGI COULD have done, very little they actually did in these regards.

Let's take a realistic look at the situation.

nearly 4 years and PGI is still struggling (and yes I mean struggling) with basic game mechanics and issues that have persisted and, in some cases, worsened over that time. The community offered feedback on most, if not all, of these situations.
They were ignored and dismissed almost every single time out of hand without even bothering to discuss.

I think part of that is because PGI doesn't know how to program some of this stuff, but their tagline is most commonly "Can't do it because tech reasons". The problem many in the community have with that?

We're gamers. We play other games. We see these other games implement these mechanics. Usually using beta phases for actual testing game mechanics as opposed to testing the audience for purchasing limits

[Coralld]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 February 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

I wouldn't say they are fine, but they at least have a niche now, but then again, I'm the person that wants to see projectile velocity across the board buffed (with maybe a slight nerf to burst delay on the cUACs to balance things out) so that quirks aren't need to use things like ACs/PPCs effectively outside of a few select mechs.

Fair enough and I like the idea of having a small burst delay for the Ultras.

I agree with a cross the board buff to projectile velocity, very small one for CUACs and a relatively larger one for regular CACs.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Sandpit, on 23 February 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

I think part of that is because PGI doesn't know how to program some of this stuff, but their tagline is most commonly "Can't do it because tech reasons". The problem many in the community have with that?

To be fair, if they are relying on built-in code for weapons (Unreal has similar built-in code to support weapons), it may well not natively support different ammo types or require a lot more work/hacks to get things to work correctly. If something is not designed/coded with things in mind, going back and trying to change things to support new functionality can be a huge undertaking, especially if starting from scratch is not a viable option.

You see it in other games because games are not designed on the same engine and some are designed with this in mind.

That said, I have no knowledge of whether the cryengine actually has support for this or not, this is just conjecture.

[LordNothing]

the old game developer pipe line was come up with an idea then build an engine that can deal with said idea. the best game studios have a programmer running the show. the buisness people worked for them. thats why john carmac drives a ferrari. you make a game into a product.

in modern gaming a studio has a buisness dude up front. programmers are contracted in as needed. you dont build an engine you buy one. you dont make a game you make a cash cow. you make a product into a game. that is why modern games are just bad.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 February 2016 - 01:09 PM.

[Roadkill]

Khobai, on 22 February 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

UAC2 jam chance should be like half of what it is now

An easier-to-balance fix would be to make the "unjam" time based on the weapon's cooldown. Just as an example, it takes 2 x cooldown to unjam regardless of weapon.

So no matter what, if you jam you lose two weapon cycles.

AC/2 would unjam really quickly so it's DPS wouldn't be as broken as it is now.