93 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

Some times people give me the hiders phone number.
and I ask
Y didn't u call?

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 25 February 2016 - 08:32 AM.

[MrMadguy]

GRiPSViGiL, on 25 February 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

Is this a serious question because the answer is obvious for anyone that understands how the matches end? Anyone left alive should be hunting down the last mech. What moron would leave the match early losing rewards and taking penalty because they are to stupid or lazy to try and find the last mech without being told his coords by people committing treason because they are an impatient dolt? Even if the outcome is obvious that the last mech probably can't pull the victory that doesn't mean he should sacrifice himself to the enemy for 23 people he probably doesn't even know.

It is irrelevant what the last mech is doing aside from being shutdown and disconnected. If there was 8 mins on the clock and the last mech decided to shutdown for 4 mins to then use the remaining 4 mins to try and set up a favorable encounter with the enemy is his prerogative. 4 mins is quite a while which may cause the remaining enemies to split apart possibly allowing for a more favorable situation once he powers back up to see what he can do. That would never happen because people on the shutdown mechs team will break CoC and give his coordinates away before he could even explain himself. Not that he even should have to explain himself but the derps who have the attention span of a gnat can't wait 15 mins even though part of the win condition is for the match to end with more live mechs.

Skirmish is the only mode this issue might even actually matter a little but even then I don't think it does because of the timer. That fact voids the CoC concerning this issue as far as I am concerned. You can't know what the last mech's intentions are unless he tells you but everyone will assume the worst and in my mind he doesn't have any obligation to tell anyone his intentions. The match ends and the team with more live mechs win. Yup, that is right they win. What a travesty the match took 15 mins huh? People know how long the timer is before they hit launch. Maybe if more people used BAP they could have found him and won sooner so this BS about grieving, while it isn't unheard of, is usually not the case as far as I have seen.

To say that the lone last mech is obligated to engage the remaining enemy mechs whether they disperse doesn't even fathom-ably make any sense what so ever and I am sure that isn't in the CoC as so. If the remaining team decided to stay huddled together not moving waiting for the light or last mech to engage they would be doing the same as non-participating as the last mech and have no right to report anything.

This issue isn't a big deal because perception of every situation will be seen 100 different ways from 100 different people but one thing is for sure that the people thinking their time is being wasted never should have hit launch if 15 mins is to long. Most of the CoC is void because of the timer alone concerning skirmish. PGI should lower the timer if the last mech is that big a deal in skirmish. The other game modes have ways to end early without the last mech even needing engaged so.

Now to actually say that I am encouraging people to break the CoC is laughable. I won't even go in on how stupid that is.

Shutting Down your ‘Mech or avoiding engagements with the enemy, and when doing so might be considered non-participation:

• Running out the clock, or needlessly extending the duration of the match, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory

What isn't clear in word "needlessly"? Playing survival squirrel, when match is already lost - is obvious needless waste of both sides' time. And don't try to justify your behavior via some faulty logic. As I said in other thread, you belong to that kind of people, who think, that "Killing other people - isn't crime, if it's justified". Everybody can find ton of excuses, that will justify their crime. "Why have I stolen this wallet? - I wanted to eat, but I'm too lazy to find a job". Crime is crime. Needless extension of match duration is needless extension of match duration. Violation of COC is violation of COC. Also you belong to "I thought..." kind of people. "Why have I collided with other car on crossroad? - I thought, he would concede to me". Now knowing or not understanding the rules - doesn't exempt from responsibility. "Why have you violated COC via needlessly extending match duration? - I thought, it wasn't needless FOR ME". Nobody cares, what YOU think. Rules are rules. For majority of players it's NEEDLESS. Obey or GTFO.

Edited by MrMadguy, 25 February 2016 - 08:51 AM.

[General Solo]

It depends on your Point of View - Quote - Obi one Kenobi
Rules are interpreted.
Spirit of the law ain't the same as word of the law.
Players push boundries, and new laws are made
Eventually

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 25 February 2016 - 08:51 AM.

[Mystere]

MrMadguy, on 24 February 2016 - 11:32 PM, said:

"Tactical hiding" - is allowed only for short term purposes. When enemy is near, you want to let him pass and then ambush. Long term hiding is forbidden. Some players don't care about COC - game mechanics should prevent them from doing it.

Ahem! I've been known to take my sweet time just waiting, watching, stalking, and plotting before moving in for the kill. So if people don't want to wait, disconnect from the match and use another Mech. And if you miss that Mech so much that you really want to wait, get a spare or three.

[Mystere]

Aleski, on 25 February 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

Come on lights pilot, f**k the KDR =)

Psst! It's actually rarely about KDR. That's just the justification spouted by self-proclaimed psychics and telepaths.

Edited by Mystere, 25 February 2016 - 08:58 AM.

[nehebkau]

Mystere, on 25 February 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

Psst! It's actually rarely about KDR. That's just the justification spouted by self-proclaimed psychics and telepaths.

Yes, usually the 'power-down and hide on skirmish' group are just trying to be dickish. Angry with their team's performance or something similar.

Edited by nehebkau, 25 February 2016 - 09:02 AM.

[MrMadguy]

OZHomerOZ, on 25 February 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

It depends on your Point of View - Quote - Obi one Kenobi
Rules are interpreted.
Spirit of the law ain't the same as word of the law.
Players push boundries, and new laws are made
Eventually

Opinions are subjective, but rules have to be objective, otherwise they are useless. If one may say, that survival squirrel running around the map for 10 minutes with zero outcome - is needless waste of time and that 12vs1 situation = no chances to win, but other may say, that "Personally for me it's not needless, because I'm that survival squirrel" and that "0.00000000000000000000001% chance to win - is still chance to win" - then rules are useless. Rules should clearly state, that "Avoiding engaging with other 'Mechs, when you're last 'Mech standing - is against COC. Running away - is forbidden. Keeping safe distance - is forbidden. Hiding - is forbidden. Your chance to win - is a chance to survive in direct attack on enemy 'Mechs. Assault 'Mech can neither run away and hide, nor pursue you, if you will do it: exploiting and abusing your speed to get unfair advantage - is forbidden."

Edited by MrMadguy, 25 February 2016 - 09:12 AM.

[Kuritaclan]

MrMadguy, on 25 February 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

Opinions are subjective, but rules have to be objective, otherwise they are useless. If one may say, that survival squirrel running around the map for 10 minutes with zero income - is needless waste of time and that 12vs1 situation = no chances to win, but other may say, that "Personally for me it's not needless, because I'm that survival squirrel" and that "0.00000000000000000000001% chance to win - is still chance to win" - then rules are useless.

If only you >>"might"<< read rules.

[Catra Lanis]

If, someone has done 400 damage and a kill or two and it's only a few min left I let them hide if they wan't. They've earned it as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by Catra Lanis, 25 February 2016 - 09:14 AM.

[TLBFestus]

Has anyone EVER been "disciplined" by PGI for hiding or reporting the position of someone who does this?

My suspicion is "No".

I know this guy, see, this guy. And this guy, a friend of a friend of mine, almost always calls out those players. He calls them "jackelopes" or worse ya see? Well, anyhow he takes a quick look at the team balance when this happens, and if there are only 2 or 3 heavily damaged mechs chasing down a lightly damaged one who is maneuvering and taking shots he keeps his mouth shut and cheers for the little guy.

But if its 4, 5 or 6 against one and they are are pretty darn healthy he rats the little bastage out constantly and with glee because the guy is either trying to pad his KDR or is so delusional as to think he can win it. Either way, this guy who knows my friend, I think they work together or sumthin' he has no qualms about giving up their position if he can.

He's never been banned or disciplined either.

[Hydrocarbon]

adamts01, on 24 February 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

Part of the strategy is to hide in order to spread out the enemy, in order to get 1v1 fights.

The problem is most "runners" don't even understand this. A light attempting this will occasionally get a visual. A runner will be well below 25% heat, out of max range, and have zero clue where the enemy is. Being spotted shouldn't bother you, as you should only be running if you can outrun them all.



*MOST IMPORTANTLY* most CBILLS are given for TEAM PLAY. My latest PUG screenshot shows 21% of my 300k was from savior kills (can't be done solo). It's also unlikely to get a solo kill (10k) unless you were PWNing that match from the start.

It's more cbill-efficient for you to get another match, and community-wide cbill earnings would go up if people would go out in a blaze of glory instead of squeezing blood from a turnip.

[MrMadguy]

Rules are usually about spirit of sport - they are about fair fighting. Doing something, that will piss your opponents off, when you are losing, instead of being courageous enough to accept this loss and move on - is against spirit of sport. If you start to shortcut the track, when you race, just because "you can" and don't want to accept your loss - then your are just piece of s**t. And no excuses would justify your behavior. This game is about fighting. Rules state, that low chances to success - isn't valid excuse for avoiding the fight. Nobody cares, that you play Light and that you have low chances to win against Assault 'Mech - it's your problem. Cored 'Mech also have low chances to win vs fresh one. And what? Nobody runs away and hide, like coward. You should have been "winning" this match, when it was still possible. Now you have already lost. Learning to accept your loses - is the first thing, you should do, if you want to play PVP games. If you don't like to die or loss - go play solo or PVE ones. PVP games aren't for you, sorry.

Edited by MrMadguy, 25 February 2016 - 10:03 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

MrMadguy, on 25 February 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

Shutting Down your ‘Mech or avoiding engagements with the enemy, and when doing so might be considered non-participation:

• Running out the clock, or needlessly extending the duration of the match, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory

What isn't clear in word "needlessly"? Playing survival squirrel, when match is already lost - is obvious needless waste of both sides' time. And don't try to justify your behavior via some faulty logic. As I said in other thread, you belong to that kind of people, who think, that "Killing other people - isn't crime, if it's justified". Everybody can find ton of excuses, that will justify their crime. "Why have I stolen this wallet? - I wanted to eat, but I'm too lazy to find a job". Crime is crime. Needless extension of match duration is needless extension of match duration. Violation of COC is violation of COC. Also you belong to "I thought..." kind of people. "Why have I collided with other car on crossroad? - I thought, he would concede to me". Now knowing or not understanding the rules - doesn't exempt from responsibility. "Why have you violated COC via needlessly extending match duration? - I thought, it wasn't needless FOR ME". Nobody cares, what YOU think. Rules are rules. For majority of players it's NEEDLESS. Obey or GTFO.

It isn't about what I think as much as it is about how the rules are interpreted. The CoC concerning this issue is very subjective and can actually be torn apart very easily. So please keep posting your examples of it to plead your case because when applying it to any given situation more often than not any given perceived violation won't and shouldn't be seen as a breach unless certain circumstances are seen. In other words when left up to interpreting someones intent watching their actions it will be impossible to find someone is actually breaching unless they are shutdown and DCed or exited from the game in most cases.

You mention one such way to dismantle it in pointing out "needlessly" and how it could be defined. It is obvious in Conquest and Assault of how running out the time could assist for a victory, which leaves us with Skirmish. How do you make certain that someone is "needlessly" extending the match when there is 8 mins left? What is the criteria? Ho did you decide the match was lost for that last mech? You can't....unless certain circumstances were present like he was neutered or out of ammo. Do the amount of mechs left hunting the lone mech matter? it shouldn't, I have seen lone players dispatch 6 badly damaged mechs. If they are running the outskirt of the map searching for a favorable situation in which to engage is that "needlessly" if there are 4 to 6 moderate to badly damaged mechs searching for him? Those willing to deny someone a chance to at those odds will say 'yes'. If I am the dead guy watching the lone mech work I say he isn't needlessly extending the match. Say the last mech is popping up in different locations putting 3 or 4 volley's of alphas on target but it takes him a min or two to re-position to repeat? Is that "needless"? So when left up to interpretation it can go either way but I will always sway on the right of the individual controlling the last mech to decide his own path and fate. You and the other dictators will not dictate to me how I play in those regards. If I shutdown and DC....okay, report away.

You are very bright....I hope you sense the sarcasm. I particularly like the assumptions you make about me and goes right along with most of the posts I have seen of yours here and in other threads. You say rules are rules obey and GTFO while you are the one who clearly doesn't understand the rules. The CoC is not there for you to willy nilly decide what you think someones intent was nor decide whether the match was lost yet to cast blame. Crime is not crime....that is why there is a judicial system and process to determine guilt. You can't use the CoC to be judge, jury, and executioner. You GTFO you slimy dictator.

[MrMadguy]

I think, survival squirrel kind of players should go playing Rogues in Wow. There you will be able to walk in stealth 100% of time in complete safety, gank low level players and low HP players, who fight against 10 mobs, with impunity. And even if threat of "fair PVP" will accidentally appear - you will always be able to use Cloak of Shadows, Vanish and Sprint, that will get you out of any situation, where you may fairly lose or die, and will allow you to run away and hide in a corner, as you love to do so much. Perfect game for you. And MWO isn't for you, cuz there is no God Mode or other cheats here.

Edited by MrMadguy, 25 February 2016 - 10:21 AM.

[Intrepid]

MrMadguy, on 25 February 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

"Killing other people - isn't crime, if it's justified".

Now you have gone full ****** on us... Killing is not a crime; murder, manslaughter, etc are crimes and even then are excused when justified.

I wish I could claim all the death and destruction I have wrought as personal kills but the King of Battle is really a team effort; yet none of them were remotely criminal in nature.

Fact of the matter is that while hiding MIGHT be a violation, Team Treason and Suiciding ARE violations. We get that this distinction is too much for you and as such you should change your name to MrDumbGuy and be done with it.

[Sorbic]

Raso, on 24 February 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

I've ratted our my own team members for doing this. Especially if it's obvious they have no chance.

That's also against the TOS and I can't count the number of times I've seem impatient folks toss a hissy fit and run off at the mouth saying "just die" "you're gonna die anyway". Heck, I've had them toss that bull at me before I go on to win/get 1 kill away from winning after being 5 or so mechs down. And I almost never even run far for re-positioning so it's not like I'm disengaging for long.

Just because a player went and got killed doesn't mean the other guys should fall on their sword... I am happy that I can't remember the last time I've seen a light pilot run off and power down to hide. Bigger mechs yes but rarely.

[Nauht]

TLBFestus, on 25 February 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Has anyone EVER been &quot;disciplined&quot; by PGI for hiding or reporting the position of someone who does this?

My suspicion is &quot;No&quot;.


He's never been banned or disciplined either.

Nope. Not me in four years.

And I always see repeat offenders get away with it too. So I'm guessing that nothing is been done about them either.

PGI support have better and no doubt tons more issues to deal with.

[Naduk]

you dont like it then dont vote for skirmish
enemy cannot run away from you if your standing on his objectives

[Nauht]

Naduk, on 25 February 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

you dont like it then dont vote for skirmish
enemy cannot run away from you if your standing on his objectives

Thanks for that piece of enlightening advice.

You should email PGI and make it a tip on the load screen so that the other 23 players can do the same.

[Tickdoff Tank]

If the mech in question (light, medium, whatever) is trying to create space and string out the enemy to increase his odds of a kill, or if he is trying to run to secure a Conquest victory, running off in a last ditch attempt to capture the base in Assault, or even trying to force a Draw by not getting killed; All of these are a good reason to avoid contact, hide, power down and/or run.

But if you are just running away like a scared little child because you are the last one on your team, then grow a pair, fight as smart as you can and go down swinging. Have a little respect for your teammates and the other team. Do not extend a match just to stroke your epeen.

When I see a player "hiding", running, or avoiding action (once I am dead and riding in their cockpit), I try to take an objective look at what they are doing, and I believe that I give them the benefit of the doubt. If it appears that they are being a coward then I will, in team chat and voice chat, try to encourage them to do something. it may be a simple "That Catapult in C4 has a cherry red torso, you can finish him off" or, "I think that Mauler is alone over near D4, might want to try and hit him while he is solo", even "Doubt you can kill all 10 of them by yourself in a Locust, but maybe you can hit their base". If the player does ANYTHING remotely aggressive (or intelligently defensive) then I shut up and let them play. If they run off to a corner and shut down, then (still in team chat), I inform them that hiding to prolong a match and not attempting to secure victory is against the TOS. In a few extreme cases I have reported their position to the enemy. If that gets me "punishment" then I will accept it.