13 replies to this topic

[Space Time Meat Vehicle]

Why do you think most of the time 40 - 50% of people use Heavy Mech? I feel it is because too much firepower, so in effect, speed or armour factors can't protect against it.

[DivineEvil]

Space Time Meat Vehicle, on 24 February 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

Why do you think most of the time 40 - 50% of people use Heavy Mech? I feel it is because too much firepower, so in effect, speed or armour factors can't protect against it.

I believe it is because of current heat management, that allows extreme laser-vomit alpha-strikes. In these conditions, Heavies are your best bet, because they possess both enough armor (unlike Mediums) and enough mobility (unlike Assaults) to spread the laser-vomit damage and thus survive long enough for satisfying gameplay. They also capable of obtaining a sweet-spot of laser-vomit firepower (which Mediums can't), combined with heat management to handle it (which Assaults can't).

In general, Heavies provide best bets in all fields, thus there's no need to work around any flaws, because there isn't any. They can be mobile, durable and powerful, just as player would decide them to be.

Edited by DivineEvil, 25 February 2016 - 04:30 AM.

[Russhuster]

I have to agree,
Heat management and the quirks are literally forcing laser builds to be used on quite a number of chassis
as quirks on the IS side do bring a lot of advantages to chassis with some good energy hardpoints like

energy cooldown quirks 50%!!!!!
and laser duration quirks -30%!!! burntime on top of the shorter burntime the IS has anyway
energy Heat generation quirks -20%

as a result we do see quirk born boating and laser vomit en masse #

many heavy mechs do provide a good mix of quirks/tonnage and hardpoint availability
so these are the logical choice,

On Clanside the puny payload does not allow much variation in builds Mechs like the Nova MistLynx IceFerret Summoner Gargoyle etc are forcerd towards energy builds as they have riddiculous low loading tonnage
others like the shadow Cat or the Executioner have in addition to that partwise braindead crippling hardcoded inbuilds like hoverjets or Masc ( Masc was a bit improved by the last patch bit its tonnage/worth - ratio is still disputable)

the result there is as well the domination of energy builds here born out of hardship/necessity

Edited by Russhuster, 25 February 2016 - 11:52 AM.

[Luminis]

Russhuster, on 25 February 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

as a result we do see quirk born boating and laser vomit en masse #

TBRs, EBJs, HBRs, HBK-IICs and even ACHs can all vomit pretty hard and the Heavies, at least, have other options (like Dakka and stuff).

Ahem. Yeah, firepower is pretty brutal at the moment. The alpha strikes a TBR can bring forth are all but ridiculous... if only sustained DPS mattered a little more.

[Wraith 1]

Russhuster, on 25 February 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

...quirks on the IS side do bring a lot of advantages to chassis with some good energy hardpoints like

energy cooldown quirks 50%!!!!!

There are exactly two variants in the entire game with 50% energy cooldown and neither have more than one energy hardpoint.

Poe's law is strong with this one.

[Spirit of Chaos]

Yeah, I have noticed laser vomit is just everywhere. I even have a Dire Wolf build with 15 medium pulse lasers, and I just tear people apart. With the proper limitations to how many you fire at once, you can generally tear through the armor of even heavies and just turn their CT to jello.

[Nightshade24]

Space Time Meat Vehicle, on 24 February 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

Why do you think most of the time 40 - 50% of people use Heavy Mech? I feel it is because too much firepower, so in effect, speed or armour factors can't protect against it.

A few factors...
1) Medium [2nd most popular weight class] and Heavies are the perfect blend of speed, firepower, weapons, etc.
These 2 weight classes are not as specialised as the other 2... it's hard to say have an LRM boat Light mech, or a Juggeranut, etc... or a Scout assault mech, or skirmisher.

2) There is a lack of repair bill to regulate the ammount of heavy and assault mechs in game. with a Repair bill in place more lights and mediums would be present.

3) MW2-4 tought us that bigger is better. So most people fall in love with the heavy or assault mech of choice and stuck to that idea of thinking for ages...

Even remembers playing say a Mad Cat in MW2 or 4 but no one gived a **** most of the time about say the Owens, Flea, Kitfox, etc. It is usually those mechs you have for the first hour and half and you sell it for the first medium and heavy mechs for access.

[Dan Nashe]

Heavies do the most damage (equal to assaults, but mobile enough to be in every winning fight), assaults can take the most, lights are the fastest and mediums... are cheap?

The description of quirks is not accurate or representative, and I see lights usually more popular than mediums.

Assaults are rare because they are unforgiving. You can make mistakes in a heavy, you can react to your team doing crazy things. In an assault, if you or your team screws up, you die. The end.
I usually see more lights than assaults.

Mediums are cheap and okay that's why they're seen much at all.

Anyways, Heavies were the most fun in the board game for the same reason.

And actually laser vomit was how you abused tabletop too... great pilot plus mls equalled win!

Also the current system rewards lights a lot more than heavies. Because of the 10 dhs in the engine.

Your analysis is wrong.
And I can put 9 ml on a hunchback, and way more weapons on an assault. Why are heavies more popular? Speed and armor. Honestly with the laser meta Most mechs have the same rough firepower. 8 ML firestarter? Easy. (If only alpha matters, fs can alpha this 3. times). Assaults have higher alphas.

Heavies are the most popular, lights are the second most because fun and unique.

The only way heavies would be less popular is ... well a ballistic meta favors heavies too, but now you can run 4-5 ballistic assaults vs 3 ballistic heavies.

But lights are very high skill. Heavies are lowest skill. Mediums and assaults are similar.

TL: DR it's not that simple.
I suspect heavies will always be the most popular. No matter how the game is made or changed. Unless you make maps really small, then assaults will dominate.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Because people wont get mad at their heavy team mates for rockin an XL

[Aiden Skye]

Game would be more fun I feel If Mediums were the workhorses of the battlefield as they were in lore.

[white0Fox]

Grashopper and Blackknight have good Structure/Weapon Quirks, with XL over 80kp/h, high Alpha und they are still robust.

IS Mediums a little bit faster, but a lack of Firepower, and Armor make them unprofitable.

The Reason to take a medium is the higher mobility/speed then a Heavy, but Heavys play almost like mediums.

(Sorry for my bad English)

Edited by white0Fox, 02 March 2016 - 03:33 AM.

[BaconCouch]

W A R K H A N, on 01 March 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

Game would be more fun I feel If Mediums were the workhorses of the battlefield as they were in lore.

The reason they are workhorses in the lore, is due to availability and logistics. Taken in a vacuum, these things don't matter in MWO. Grind enough, and any mech can be yours to pilot, with no downsides to deploying your biggest baddest stuff every time. Availability of components, or the relative rarity of assault chassis, are not taken into effect.
I can rack up 1k point games in a small pulse Nova. Mediums give you a jack of all trades experience. You can run, jump, and pack decent firepower, with decent armor.

[Dibster]

Just in terms of the topic title, I agree. Alphas are way too big. Back in 8v8 things were relatively manageable, but in 12v12 it's not uncommon to peek around a corner and instantly get cored.

I'd love to see a non-linear armor progression through the weight classes. Lights could be where they are now. Mediums could take a step closer to heavies along with their sizes being reduced. Heavies are a good baseline if alphas were addressed. Assaults should have higher relative armor than currently.

[Omaha]

I know when I decide to pilot a heavy, it's because of the firepower. It almost matches assaults. Yet can carry the speed and maneuverability of some heavier mediums. Still lumbering its, not a med. or light mech. Nor is it a burden to just walk across the field to face your enemies, like assaults. However they still require the strategic planning and care to place effectively on the battlefield.

I think they are just fun all around and make you think a little more when moving about, but not enough to fry your brain when the team starts moving ahead. You still have some armor if you get into trouble, or if you decide to take point, and push your way to victory, team closely behind.

You don't need to be all "Hopped up on caffeine" Like lights, I do those too!

It's just a relaxing walk in the park. Everyone likes to enjoy the scenery!

PLUS They just look better =P Seriously some of my favorite mech designs have been a heavy chassis.

Edited by Omaha, 03 March 2016 - 05:06 AM.