14 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior0155422]

On my last game in CW I was on defense on the map Emerald Taiga. Both gate are still closed and suddenly O-Gen 2 get hit. And big chunk of dmg each time. In 5-6 shots the O-Gen is destroyed before the gate are open. This is a exploit, a hack?

[Valdherre Tor]

The attackers have visibility of that gen from a hill outside the gate.

[Rogue Jedi]

The gens are badly positioned on that map, in counter attack the attackers can take out the "Omega" Mobile Field Base from outside the gates.

to the best of my knowledge that cannot happen on any other maps, however people can jump over the gate and go for the gens with the gates closed on any map

[Jack Booted Thug]

On counter attack mode, Omega can be hit from outside the gate on Grim Portico.

A certain Davion unit who specializes in said "tactic" illuminated that one, killing omega didn't help them in the end though.

I believe I've seen it done on Sulfur from beta gate as well.

Don't know if it's still possible on those two after range reductions, I think it took 900+ battlemaster1S type range to do it.

[VorpalAnvil]

Jack Booted Thug, on 25 February 2016 - 12:58 AM, said:

On counter attack mode, Omega can be hit from outside the gate on Grim Portico.

A certain Davion unit who specializes in said "tactic" illuminated that one, killing omega didn't help them in the end though.

I believe I've seen it done on Sulfur from beta gate as well.

Don't know if it's still possible on those two after range reductions, I think it took 900+ battlemaster1S type range to do it.

Let's not be over generous Jack. They are simply pugs with a tag. They barely fulfill the minimum definition of a unit...

[Davegt27]

We used to have all kinds of tactics

And people cried about almost all of them so now CW is a ghost town with people constantly complaining about this or that

PGI has taken little interest in CW probably because of all the crybabies

Can you even believe the secondary generators have a tiny port you have to shoot into to take it down

It will be a sad day when CW beta 3 comes out because of all the new crying that will start up

[Sputty]

It's doable but it's a very stupid idea because it wastes so much time. It's the type of thing a really bad unit does because they're afraid of actually pushing.

Also, to do it you have to bring ERLLs or other long range weapons that are otherwise bad at killing mechs in Taiga. If they were primarily interested in gen rushing they'd just do Stormcrow, or light on IS, waves but just doing gen rushes over and over is a pretty hilarious idea.

[habu86]

It's certainly doable, and doesn't usually take that long, but is usually not worth it, especially since it requires ERLL loadouts that will not be particularly helpful in the CQB encounters that characterize Emerald Taiga.

Now, with that said...

*dons flame resistant suit*

...an argument could be made for having an ERLL boat shaving specific gen down (or any mechs attempting to bodyblock access), especially if the opposing team is dug in on the backside of the gun with all 12 mechs and up to 6 functional turrets in the immediate area. It takes a pretty big skill and/or tonnage disparity to break through in that situation.

Still, you won't get many top teams attempting that, for a number of reasons, some valid, others eye-roll inducing.

[Wildstreak]

Sputty, on 25 February 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

It's doable but it's a very stupid idea because it wastes so much time. It's the type of thing a really bad unit does because they're afraid of actually pushing.

Also, to do it you have to bring ERLLs or other long range weapons that are otherwise bad at killing mechs in Taiga. If they were primarily interested in gen rushing they'd just do Stormcrow, or light on IS, waves but just doing gen rushes over and over is a pretty hilarious idea.

No, it is called tactics that have been largely removed from the game.

[Khereg]

Sputty, on 25 February 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

It's doable but it's a very stupid idea because it wastes so much time.

Seconded. I see it more on Taiga in counterattack mode where Omega can be taken down from the same spot outside the gate. That's usually a prelude to the attackers rushing in, trying to get up a kill or two and retreating back to their spawn.

It's a legit tactic, but it makes for a pretty terrible match.

[Necromantion]

VorpalAnvil, on 25 February 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

Let's not be over generous Jack. They are simply pugs with a tag. They barely fulfill the minimum definition of a unit...

Isnt that all of davion?

[Dawnstealer]

Davegt27, on 25 February 2016 - 01:17 AM, said:

We used to have all kinds of tactics

And people cried about almost all of them so now CW is a ghost town with people constantly complaining about this or that

PGI has taken little interest in CW probably because of all the crybabies

Can you even believe the secondary generators have a tiny port you have to shoot into to take it down

It will be a sad day when CW beta 3 comes out because of all the new crying that will start up

Really, the whole generator/kill the big gun missions are a bit goofy. There should be a ladder of missions, or a tree, that you have to go through as you win more of a planet:

0%-10%: Beachhead mission(s) (ideally there'd be three or four of these). Land in the middle of the map, the enemy start around you. "Alamo" up for 30 minutes: you live, you win, you establish a landing place for your dropships. Could you imagine being dropped in water over your head and literally having to fight your way up beach? Cool!

11-25%: Scouting mission(s). Sounds like this is coming in CW3, but in kind of a goofy way. Stand on the twirling icon? That's not very simulator-y. How about "escort the Swift Wind," "protect the mobile HQ?"

26-75%: Take-and-Hold mission(s). I've talked about this one before, but it would be similar to conquest: you have to take strategic points sequentially across the map. Defender starts with two, attackers start with one, and there's 2 or four points across the map. Each time you take a strategic area 100%, it becomes available as a new respawn location and the next point becomes available for conquest. Map is won by whichever team controls the most points. And sure - you can throw in a few "kill the big gun" missions for flavor, but they'd be the minority.

76-95%: Destroy the Base mission(s). Every building and dropship in the base is destructable, you have a few dropships that will take off every, say, five minutes. The defenders get points for every dropship that makes it away, the attackers get points for every one that doesn't. Winner has the most points at the end of 30 minutes.

95%-00%: End Game mission(s). Mop up resistance, so this is the opposite of 0-10% - the DEFENDERS are now the Alamo, preferably with a map that favors defense (as this is the last pockets of resistance on the planet) and the ATTACKERS are moving in from all over. Winner has the most kills.

That's how I'd do it if I ran the zoo. Destroying gens is boring and not real flavorful.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 25 February 2016 - 08:11 AM.

[habu86]

That's a pretty cool progression Dawnstealer, and I think it would make for some very interesting gameplay, but I do have a couple of questions.

At what point in that progression would the planet be "taken" come ceasefire?

Will there be some kind of strategic rewards for attackers maxing out the planet? How about for defenders who stubbornly hold out in those last 25% missions?

How can defenders retake pips? Say, defenders throw back attackers during "destroy-the-base-missions". How will they move on to continuing to push the attackers back?

Flesh it out some more, i think it's a pretty good (and natural) progression to taking or defending a planet.

Edited by habu86, 25 February 2016 - 09:16 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

My thought is that you slow the whole planet-taking process down. It's really disheartening to fight hard for a planet, be way up in the percentage, go to bed, wake up, go to work, get home, and find out you lost three planets during that time. That's compounded by the fact planets don't really mean anything at the moment, but that's another topic.

The way I'd see it is this: the Faction votes on which planet from which bordering Factions they're attacking (so not Mercs - just Faction Loyalists). At any point during that fight, the Faction can pull the plug and vote on attacking another planet. If it gets over, say, 60%, the attack on Planet 1 will stop and Planet 2 will begin.

So that's the starting mechanic.

I'd toss the "Sector % captured" mechanic.

Instead, I'd implement "Total % of battles." So ALL the fights for a world would count*. A planet only changes hands when it reaches around 75% Attacker wins. Obviously this will make taking a planet much harder, but is also realistic: it's HARD to conquer a whole planet. And that planet stays in contest until the Attacking Faction chooses to attack a different planet OR the Attacker wins 75% of the total battles.

EDIT: I'd also dump the Ceasefire mechanic - when the planet crosses that 75% threshold, it changes hands. Although there should be a minimum number of games required: "after 20 battles," the percentage counts, etc.

* Ghost Drops: this one's a little harder to deal with, because if ALL the drops on a planet counts, a more populated Faction (or a faction with a big merc unit(s)), will just roll over a smaller one. Ideally, you'd have AI-controlled tanks and infantry. Not really enough to actually beat a full mech company, but at LEAST some sort of fight and not just destroying an inanimate HQ or Landing Beacons.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 25 February 2016 - 12:38 PM.

[Sandpit]

It's called poor design

So I'm sure if we get enough threads and complaints about it PGI will find a player based scapegoat to blame for it and come up with a fix