46 replies to this topic

[FalconerGray]

I really like the idea of a "field refit" customization system and an open custom Solaris mode, as well as stock options, but, I've come to feel that this isn't the right Mechwarrior game for such a concept. Perhaps in the future.

Having said that, I do feel like our current game would benefit from (either) some light restrictions to customization or some way to make stock loadouts more competitive. This isn't a "make it more BT/TT" call (again, this isn't the right game for that), but more a thought on making mech customization more of an added feature than a necessity. My primary style of gaming is racing sims, a genre where some of the customization options can be so overwhelmingly complicated that they can require dedicated software to gather information on and so detailed that there are people focused purely on the interpretation of this data and nothing else, BUT - a new player can still get involved, run with the default setup and get most of the same experience and level of competition.

Where in competitive simracing, a custom setup might be needed to compete for a top-level win, the difference in performance can actually be quite small, in MWO the difference between a min-maxed metamech and the standard loadout that ever rookie drops in is usually quite immense. I'd like to see some way to change this, without impeding too much on the existing standards. But, I unfortunately don't have any concrete suggestions (except perhaps limiting the way that armor can be front loaded and reducing the number of engine options available, making bigger jumps between ratings or something).

[Sandpit]

FupDup, on 25 February 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

For this one in particular, I think that laser color changes might cause confusion because currently laser effects are based on their size. For example, Large Lasers are blue and Small Laser are red. If I made my Large Lasers green or something, then that might confuse people to think I'm hitting them with only Medium Lasers instead of Larges.

Doesn't seem to stop color blind players

I see what you're saying, I'm just giving examples of all the opportunities PGi COULD have for revenue streams if they'd ever bother doing something besides mech releases for cash. Sooner or later that well will dry up and this game doesn't have the population size to continue that.

The thing that keeps that system viable are the hardcore Btech fans who buy them to collect more than anything else. Too bad many of those players are yet again getting pissed because PGI keeps moving goalposts on what they announce, what they implement, and how they "fix" issues

legatoblues, on 25 February 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

I really like the idea of a "field refit" customization system and an open custom Solaris mode, as well as stock options, but, I've come to feel that this isn't the right Mechwarrior game for such a concept. Perhaps in the future.

Having said that, I do feel like our current game would benefit from (either) some light restrictions to customization or some way to make stock loadouts more competitive. This isn't a "make it more BT/TT" call (again, this isn't the right game for that), but more a thought on making mech customization more of an added feature than a necessity. My primary style of gaming is racing sims, a genre where some of the customization options can be so overwhelmingly complicated that they can require dedicated software to gather information on and so detailed that there are people focused purely on the interpretation of this data and nothing else, BUT - a new player can still get involved, run with the default setup and get most of the same experience and level of competition.

Where in competitive simracing, a custom setup might be needed to compete for a top-level win, the difference in performance can actually be quite small, in MWO the difference between a min-maxed metamech and the standard loadout that ever rookie drops in is usually quite immense. I'd like to see some way to change this, without impeding too much on the existing standards. But, I unfortunately don't have any concrete suggestions (except perhaps limiting the way that armor can be front loaded and reducing the number of engine options available, making bigger jumps between ratings or something).

an MM system based on something like BV as opposed to weight class matching would do wonders for that without impeding anyone's customization options

[Pjwned]

If you enforce stock mode it will just result in the vast majority of mechs being ignored because their stock loadout is trash, and only the mechs with stock loadouts that happen to be decent will be used.

It's just not going to work in this game ever.

[Sandpit]

Pjwned, on 25 February 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

If you enforce stock mode it will just result in the vast majority of mechs being ignored because their stock loadout is trash, and only the mechs with stock loadouts that happen to be decent will be used.

It's just not going to work in this game ever.

yea, once that genie was out of the bottle it was over for stock loadouts. The final nail in that coffin was when even PGI acknowledged this and started using player designed builds for trial mechs

[Wolfways]

Unfortunately MWO isn't BT (even if pgi claim it is) because $$$.

"Limited customization, yay" from a few BT fans + "Hell no, screw BT!" from lots of non-BT fans = "Full customization" from pgi.

Just don't ever expect MWO to be as great as it could be...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Sandpit, on 25 February 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

that's not a hardpoint size, that's simply available slots just like you have in MWO, you're just not shown all of the empty slots on the paper doll like you are in MWO

No, it isn't like MWO because it isn't restricted the same way, for instance you could easily have a 4 slot ballistic in the CT.

[Khobai]

Quote

If you enforce stock mode it will just result in the vast majority of mechs being ignored because their stock loadout is trash, and only the mechs with stock loadouts that happen to be decent will be used.

It's just not going to work in this game ever.

The only way you could do it is if stock mode picked 12 random stock mechs. Each team would have the same 12 stock mechs. And each player would be assigned a stock mech at random.

[Pjwned]

After actually skimming the post further, I read this part.

Malleus011, on 25 February 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

Specific Quirk Mode: Much less restrictive than those options listed above, Specific Quirk mode only influences customization. Major changes to the ‘mech can still be made, but weapon quirks, agility quirks, etc; would be tied to specific hardpoints or engines (the ‘mech is designed for PPCs in the arms, and a 300 engine, for example, and loses quirks if those elements are changed). This encourages Stock or Superstock builds but it less punitive than a global performance hit, only removing advantages instead of imposing penalties.

I would be fine with hardpoint specific quirks and other quirks based on stock loadouts if quirks in general are adjusted to not be a sloppy mess, though I wouldn't necessarily want to see quirks on every mech just because it fits with a stock loadout.

[Pjwned]

Khobai, on 25 February 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

The only way you could do it is if stock mode picked 12 random stock mechs. Each team would have the same 12 stock mechs. And each player would be assigned a stock mech at random.

Which would of course never ever happen ever if only because that would completely destroy PGI's ability to make money from players.

[FalconerGray]

Sandpit, on 25 February 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

an MM system based on something like BV as opposed to weight class matching would do wonders for that without impeding anyone's customization options

This is a system I'm absolutely in favour of, with no specific number of opponents for each match, just two teams of even BV (which would be balanced not just by chassis, but by build AND player skill/tier).

[Lucian Nostra]

Limited customization would breath a lot of life into MWO, stopping the ability to just boat weaponry and thus forcing more diverse builds which in turn would make people run other mechs because they would actually have to make some choices on what classes of weapons they wanted to take (maybe a BK carries less lasers but larger ones vs a Warhammer featuring less large energy weapons but more smaller class or something)

The problem with putting a limit into the game at this point is the loud segment of people that would shout "BUT my special snowflake!!!" totally ignoring the fact that all they run are meta machines with the same tired meta builds as everyone else does and indeed.. they are not special snowflake designs.

[Revis Volek]

Sounds like no fun at all to me....


If they change the game this drastically at this point it would be death. Maybe next time and id say this doesn't STOP PGI form giving us a Stock Or Limited Upgrade mode. Same way they code what mechs can go in what Dropships they could more then likely code what tech/weapons could be brought and which mechs would be INVALID to speak.

WIll they and can they? Fat chance on both id say.

[Gyrok]

Malleus011, on 25 February 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Granted it wouldn't be a simple or easy change to implement, but doesn't resigning to that doom PGI to steadily declining income from new 'mech packs? What are they to do about that?

Quirks are the vehicle for that.

Is it honestly any surprise that older mechs are bad, and the newest stuff is good, and well quirked?

[GRiPSViGiL]

I wish we had unlimited customization but they tell us what our quirks are and I can't choose anything in the skill tree.

[Ulris Ventis]

I think there could be a more flexible and fun solution.

Quick plays should have no changes from what we have now. That's casual bread and butter, it's a fun chaotic mess and there is no reason at all to change it.

I might be wrong, but I guess an Arena mode is coming, that could actually have a different, more interesting mechanic to it. A way to swap hardpoints for different ones. There can be a catch, like a penalty for doing so: losing some slots, armor or both, or having some penalty on the weapon/weapons, heat efficiency installed in that/those hardpoints. That might come up with some unexpected experiments and end up a surprise for an enemy. In a proper introduction in might be fun.

Factions. Those ideas about having separate rooster, C-bill account, available mechs depending on planets your faction hold and tech available for it, could lead to something interesting and different, than mirrored teams of IS in faction wars. Contracts for solo players that will collect those players in temporary groups, personal contracts or faction ones', etc. There is a huge potential that was never used. :/

Edited by Ulris Ventis, 26 February 2016 - 01:08 AM.

[Parnage Winters]

Oh good, just what we need more player separation. Because I for one already enjoy my two minute long que times if it's not prime time. Not to even speak about the poor que times if you play CW actively.

Well at least you got the picture right, you are fighting windmills it's not going to happen this game isn't popular enough to survive further splitting playerbase let alone alienating people because you want something different.

[Zerberus]

Sandpit, on 25 February 2016 - 05:51 PM, said:

The community has offered and literally handed them dozens if not hundreds of easy, micro style pricing, and viable ways to generate new revenue streams.

And both informed members of the community as well as PGI themselves have clearly stated why certain elements you listed will (currently) not fly. Allow me to reiterate....

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Custom decals
Custom camos

IP nightmare... you either have to employ people to do nothing else all day but vet peoples decals and camos images, scouring through thousands of pictures on the internet just to make sure it´s not a copyrighted image or pattern. Or a lewd image that runs the risk of the game having to be reclassified.

And if just one gets through because the guy just wants to go home on Friday and rushes it just a bit, some guy runs around with **** pics or Bart Simpson on his missile racks for a week: Bam! Pandora´s Can of Flesh Eating Worms is open, Lawsuit inc.

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Cosmetic changes to weapon colors (IE laser beam colors and such)

Since things like the color of laser beams and LRM trails help discern what the enemy is carrying, there are valid tactical reasons not to allow it, especially in CW.

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Merchandise (no brainer? can't think of a company out there that doesn't merchandise their product) IE offer dogtags with a plyer's call sign and unit or faction information

Their license specifically forbids the creation of physical merchandise, and always has. This has been clearly stated dozens of times since closed Beta. There will never be official MWO Merch, unless you´re savvy enough to renegotiate their license with Microsoft for them.

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Private server hosting for player run leagues

Allow private servers = no reason to use the official ones anymore since the accounts are not realistically transferable = community fractures into splinter groups and game dies. Also, I do not see a feasible reason this cannot already be done with private matchmaking other than "I´m not going to pay for it"... but maybe 2 of the other 23 will

This does not generate a revenue stream, it removes one

Quote

Custom warhorn sounds

Again, IP nightmare... copyrighted music, movie quotes and similar would again have to be filtered out by peoppe employed for no other reason than to vet those soundbytes.

And then one gets through on a monday when Someone hadn´t had their coffee yet, happens to be a 2 minute string of profanity, and the game risks having to be reclassified. Also, I´m fairly certain that no music publisher will think it´s cute if their copyrighted material is constantly getting played in MWO... even if it´s only a few seconds, and even if it´s only one player. Hell even if it´s jsut once they have a valid case. Bam! Pandora´s Can of Flesh Eating Worms is open, lawsuit inc, again, just because someone wanted to listen to Slipknot everytime they killed someone instead of letting an MP3 player run parallel to the game.

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I could go on but you get the picture.

Yes, you want features that sound cool on paper but aren´t fully thinking though what their actual implementation would require and cause in a multiplayer environment.

Theres a damn good reason that many of these features are not implemented in any professionally produced and published game, especially the IP relevant ones. Most of them have a lot to do with saving money and /or not getting sued.

Quote

Many have tried explaining these kinds of concepts to PGI but it seems to be impossible for them to grasp for some reason.

Just as many have tried to explain why they simply can´t be done or are beyond reasonable time and money investment... yet here we are again for the x hundredth time since 2012 rehashing the very same ideas and the very same reasons they won´t realistically fly.


Cheers

Edited by Zerberus, 26 February 2016 - 03:57 AM.

[Appogee]

Sized hardpoints was the solution. It would have prevented all the balancing issues PGI have been unable to address, despite inventing illogical things like ghost heat and quirks.

Unfortunately, the time and opportunity for that was when the game was being designed. If they limited customisation now, there'd be an outcry to rival the 3PV fiasco.

[Almond Brown]

OP, best to just wait for HBS's Stock 3025 turn based BattleTech game, due out... check their site.. That will be a very good litmus test for how the original set of Stock BT Mechs will have to be readjusted to prevent what everyone in mentioning, that many, of even the most coveted BT "Stock Mechs", just "simply suck" for various reasons, "stock load-outs" being the primary among them, versus others in their weight classes. Even many of the so called "bad weapons" of MWO will become a whole different deal in BT gameplay versus MWO.

Should be fun to watch that mess unfold...

Edited by Almond Brown, 26 February 2016 - 08:19 AM.

[Lugh]

Malleus011, on 25 February 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

wonderful stuff

All these points were made by myself and others in Closed beta in mid '12...

These are still all valid points and sadly are highly likely to remain ignored because 4 years ago we were told that strategic planning isn't "FUN"

Which is BS.