Jump to content

The Case Against Unlimited Customization


46 replies to this topic

#41 Kodyn

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Pest
  • The Pest
  • 1,444 posts
  • LocationNY, USA

Posted 26 February 2016 - 09:17 AM

Basically you described a whole other game OP...

If they were to add any of that to MWO, it would take months or years, and then be a pretty boring, pointless game after it was done, as your list of modes was so long, players would need a manual just to understand what they all meant.

MWO has it's flaws, but I like what we have far more than what was described.

Edited by Kodyn, 26 February 2016 - 09:17 AM.


#42 TVMA Doc

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 342 posts
  • LocationThe People's Demokratik Socialist Republik of Kalifornistan

Posted 26 February 2016 - 09:20 AM

View PostSandpit, on 25 February 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

ok?

Still not going to happen.

We have unlimited customization here. That's how the entire game was coded, prepared, presented, and sold for nearly 4 years now.
This isn't "beta", this is a full retail game that's been in commercial launch for years now. These kinds of ideas would have been relevant 3 years ago, but it's unrealistic to think that PGI or the customers and community would completely destroy and revamp this kind of system

When did we leave beta? Why didn't I get the memo?

#43 Gyrok

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 5,879 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationPeriphery of the Inner Sphere, moving toward the core worlds with each passing day.

Posted 26 February 2016 - 09:52 AM

View PostFupDup, on 25 February 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

For this one in particular, I think that laser color changes might cause confusion because currently laser effects are based on their size. For example, Large Lasers are blue and Small Laser are red. If I made my Large Lasers green or something, then that might confuse people to think I'm hitting them with only Medium Lasers instead of Larges.


Most evil color change ever:

Take IS LPL and turn it red...

#44 topgun505

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,625 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationOhio

Posted 26 February 2016 - 12:06 PM

This SHOULD have been how the game was released. But PGI fell into the same pit trap that ALL of the other MW titles have fallen into.

I agree that at this point it is probably too late to do this. I think about the only change you MIGHT be able to get away with would be hardpoint size restrictions (so, a mech with a 2-slot energy hardpoint for a large laser could put one energy weapon no larger than 2 slots in that hardpoint).

But even that I think you would run up against tooth and nail level resistence.

But you are correct. As time goes on new mechs will be less and less relevant as existing mechs can already have approximately the same loadouts which will result in fewer sales. The only way to combat that would be to give the newer mechs better quirks which would effectually turn into a power creep war which will ultimately doom the game.

TLDR= So they can either introduce new mechs that nobody will buy and go under, or they can introduce similar but super quirked mechs which people will buy but the game will go under after power creep gets out of control (which it will have to given enough time).



#45 C E Dwyer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 9,274 posts
  • LocationHiding in the periphery, from Bounty Hunters

Posted 26 February 2016 - 12:11 PM

View PostMalleus011, on 25 February 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

Posted Image

Unlimited Customization belongs in Solaris, not the Battlefields of the Inner Sphere

PGI faces the law of diminishing returns with every new ‘mech it releases. Since our mechs are totally customizable machines limited only by tonnage, engine caps and hardpoints, new ‘mechs offer little new gameplay or reason to purchase. The health of the game would be best served if customization was limited in some way.

(Case in point: "The Rifleman is just a lighter Jagermech" ... "why do I need a Warhammer when I have a Cataphract/Black Knight?")


There are a number of gameplay advantages to limiting customization.
  • Omnimechs would actually have greater flexibility (instead of less) – as they were intended to have.
  • Every ‘mech would have a role and unique flavor, not just a very slightly different set of hardpoints and quirks.
  • Stock or Superstock ‘mechs would be easier to balance, allowing for quirk reductions.
  • C-Bill participation costs for new players would be vastly reduced.
  • PGI could continue to count on future income from new ‘mech releases.

There are a number of different ways in which customization could be limited, offering various levels of restrictiveness. Each have their strengths and weaknesses.

Stock Mode: No customization. This is the toughest mode of the game, because design decisions made by PGI have relegated single heat sinks to the trash heap, nerfed double heat sinks, and crippled some stock designs through other faults not present in canon. While Tech 1, unquirked battles work quite well in MWO, the imbalance between Tech 2, Clantech, and crippled stock values of some systems makes a pure Stock Mode extremely challenging to implement. It could be done, if a commitment was made to make Stock ‘mechs workable. However, this would require a tremendous commitment from PGI that is unlikely to occur.

Superstock Mode: Very limited customization. Quite close to pure stock, Superstock would allow sharply limited modification or upgrading of Stock designs to allow them to function in the MWO environment. A limited menu of customization options would allow the upgrading components to advanced technology – SHS to DHS, PPC to ERPPC, AC to UAC, etc. Tearing the ‘mech down to the skeleton, swapping engines, or other radical overhauls would not be possible. (Note that Omnimechs would be quite flexible and powerful under this system)

Posted Image
​In Stock or Superstock mode, this 'mechs load out is a known quantity

Field Refit Mode: Limited customization, including all ‘Superstock’ options, and allowing small changes akin to those permitted under Battletech ‘field refit’ style rules. A ‘mech could make modest changes, possibly removing 1-2 tons of one system in exchange for armor or heat sinks, but radical refits are not permitted. Field refit mode could be ‘graded’ to remain fairly restrictive or relatively liberal, depending on the amount of leeway PGI wanted to grant Quick Play and/or Faction Play mechwarriors.

Degraded Performance Mode: A middle ground which still allows heavy or unlimited customization, but imposes stronger and stronger negative quirks the more radical the rebuild. Minor changes – 1-2 tons, or straight tech upgrades – impose only small global penalties to agility or twist speed. The greater the changes, the more negative quirks, and the more areas they apply to. This allows players to drive anything they want, but the more the ‘mech had to be altered from factory, the less effective it is; incentivizing Stock or Superstock ‘mechs without making full customization impossible.

Specific Quirk Mode: Much less restrictive than those options listed above, Specific Quirk mode only influences customization. Major changes to the ‘mech can still be made, but weapon quirks, agility quirks, etc; would be tied to specific hardpoints or engines (the ‘mech is designed for PPCs in the arms, and a 300 engine, for example, and loses quirks if those elements are changed). This encourages Stock or Superstock builds but it less punitive than a global performance hit, only removing advantages instead of imposing penalties.

Financial Penalty Mode: The least restrictive, allowing unlimited customization but imposing an increasing financial penalty for using heavily customized ‘mechs. Stock or superstock would be the most profitable builds to run (benefitting newer, poorer players) while extreme custom ‘mechs would struggle to earn C-Bills due to enormous repair bills. This would fit best with a true R&R system, should such a thing ever be intelligently implemented in modes like Faction Play.

(IMHO, the best thing for the game would be something akin to the field refit mode; gaining most of the benefits of limiting customization without locking down the Mechlab entirely)

But I like customizing my ‘mechs!

Me too. Players enjoy their mechlab, and rightly so. Battletech has great construction rules and it has been a staple of every Mechwarrior game to allow the player to customize their ride(s). We could retain the freedom of the full, unfettered ‘mechlab in Solaris – where unlimited customization belongs.

Customize your arena dueling ‘mech as much as you wish; but for the battlefields of the Inner Sphere (and PGI’s long term financial health) the game should encourage Battlemechs that resemble factory designs.

But we've had full customization for three years!

Yep. And when there were only six or eight 'mechs that was fine, but now it will slowly eat away at PGI's bottom line. Add them in first to Community Warfare/Faction Play, and then populate them out to the Quick Play queue if they work. Naturally, it's not fair to people who love the Mechlab best to take it away entirely, so it we be fairest not to implement any restrictions until after a Solaris mode has gone live.


TL:DR summary: The game would be better served if unlimited customization was confined to Solaris mode, and one of several possible limited customization solutions applied to quick play/faction play.

We can hope H.B.S do it properly, this game live or dies by the system it has in place

#46 pbiggz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 4,698 posts
  • LocationOutreach

Posted 26 February 2016 - 12:15 PM

TLDR: OP thinks half the game (the mech lab half) should be removed. No.

I support sized hardpoints however. That would be a great way to differentiate mechs.

#47 Jolly Llama

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 457 posts

Posted 26 February 2016 - 01:05 PM

Great, another one of these threads. This is an old whine, please stop. Customization is more than half the fun of this dying game.





5 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 5 guests, 0 anonymous users