54 replies to this topic

[Ace Selin]

Ghost drops are gonna be boring as hell now. At least now 2323 members happily leg and kill each other to pass the time, but in the future it'll be a snooze fest or get banned.

Edited by Ace Selin, 27 February 2016 - 02:56 AM.

[Mystere]

This is going to make events/tournaments become more fun when players all act like hyenas crowding each other while going for the kill.

[Destoroyah]

yeah gorilla arm and wideside mechs have a real problem when it comes to team damage as it can be difficult to know when you got a clean shot when from the cockpit pointof view you can seem to have a clear shot.

I would really like a tracer line added that connects the arm tip to the arm reticle and it changes color based on obstructions.
Green = Clear
Grey = Terrain Obstruction
Red = Friendly mech obstruction

[Chados]

If it starts at 50-70 I'm cool with it. I typically do at most in the 30s because of people shoving in front of me when I'm in a firefight. I've had TKs but only a couple, and the last one was a nimrod with a cored out back who jumped in front of a 32-point alpha strike and got it dead center, costing me $10,000 Cbills.

[Beaching Betty]

WarHippy, on 26 February 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

Eh it is fine for the most part, but I have never been a fan of punishing people for something that may or may not have been their fault. The c-bill penalty for damage for instance is kind of silly imo.

I agree with the cbill penalty. If they have a lot of cbills, they wouldn't care if they lost what? 100,000 cbills for doing team damage either purposely or accidently.. Im not saying that I do friendly fire, but its true innit..

[sycocys]

My opinion -

I still see people that were dual ac20/guass 'ing their entire team off the starting line in the backs playing and playing with the same loyalty and hero mechs. To me that means PGI doesn't really give a crap about TKers and this is just a situation of Russ wanting to look like they are actually doing something when that something is actually pretty much nothing in terms of penalizing the intentional TKers at all.

It's also Russ creating a complex solution where a simple solution would have worked just fine.

The intentional TK problem could have been dealt with pretty simply by temp/perma banning or account wiping (or temp with wipe) the people doing it because most of the people that still do it are doing so because they know there is no realistic penalty for griefing in this manner.

Edited by sycocys, 27 February 2016 - 06:53 AM.

[Wintersdark]

MrMadguy, on 27 February 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

Same here. Some 'Mechs, like King Crab, have very wide arms and I can't watch my sides, especially when I use Zoom to snipe. And some noobish team mates don't watch, where they are going. And I hate situation, where enemies shoot at me and I can't return fire, cuz some noobs blocked my line of fire, too. If this penalties will be just strait conversion from team dmg into CB penalty - then it will cause lots of griefing. I personally usually have team dmg, that doesn't exceed 20-30. But even little penalty is still penalty to rewards, that are overgimped even without it.

So why is it that I can get through matches and virtually never have team damage over single digits? I think I've had ONE match with more, in several months.

STOP SHOOTING YOUR TEAM MATES. Not rocket science.

Mystere, on 27 February 2016 - 03:02 AM, said:

This is going to make events/tournaments become more fun when players all act like hyenas crowding each other while going for the kill.

I'm never really certain when you're being sarcastic or not...

But for me? It IS going to make tournaments more fun.

If I can simply not do any significant amount of FF while still getting decent scores, then anyone can.

[Hobbles v]

I'm not a fan of this idea. Greifers and trolls don't care about timeout penalties; all this will do is punish teams for defending themselves against trolls seeking to ruin their drop.

Also it will ruin the duels that happen during dry drops in CW.

If this does happen the threshold should be a moderate amount of damage (say 300) and/or at least 2 kills. just so it picks out obvious team killers and not incompetent pilots or just plain heat of battle mistakes.

Edited by Hobbles v, 27 February 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Hobbles v, on 27 February 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

If this does happen the threshold should be a moderate amount of damage (say 300) and/or at least 2 kills. just so it picks out obvious team killers and not incompetent pilots or just plain heat of battle mistakes.

What?! You feel <300 damage is a "heat of battle mistake"? No. That's unacceptably bad. Suffer the penalty, and git less bad.

Stop shooting friendly mechs.

[Ted Wayz]

Davegt27, on 26 February 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:

Now good idea would be team kills in the first 1 min of play is almost always intentional

This.

Most TK's I see is when people are in a frenzy to kill the last opposing mech during an event. The second most is when the red dorito box appears to be around a friendly. But at most I see a TK once a month. Maybe.

[Hobbles v]

Wintersdark, on 27 February 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

What?! You feel <300 damage is a "heat of battle mistake"? No. That's unacceptably bad. Suffer the penalty, and git less bad.

Stop shooting friendly mechs.

No i don't consider up to 300 mistakes. You didn't read my post, i suggest wiggle room at the very least so people can defend themselves. A serial team killer will do a ton more team damage and doe not care about penalties. People defending themselves will get penalized for killing him (something that can take from 50-300 dmg to do). This system would wreck people for defending themselves.

Let me elaborate further. The thing that bugs me the most about the proposed system is that it is automated This means it will function on a set of rules and will likely be unable to account for context of how, why or when the team damage was dealt. Consider the following, all these scenarios that are common where people will be penalized and probably shouldnt.

- Teammate walks onto your LRM volley while they are travelling to target and dies.
- Teammate standing behind your target you just killed catches the back end of your Laser's burn duration since your targets dead mech no longer blocks the shot.
- Idiot in match is trolling your team, shooting off peoples arms, legs and stripping Armour. People who retaliate to stop him from doing more harm are penalized
- To spice up the boredom of a Dry drop in faction often a couple friends will duel why the rest of the team blows everything else up. We would also get penalized for legging the last guy to ready up on a dry drop if the full timer counts down (A friendly tradition my unit has).
- Light rushes, because of the swarming nature and cinfusion of Light rushes, team damage is typically much higher than normal during these.
- As a lost factions match is winding down you kill off the disconnected/ragequitter mechs sitting in your drop zone so the match doesn't have 3 minutes of your enemy just waiting for his other 3 mechs to drop.

In addition, since the system is automated, Griefers will be able to abuse it as another way to bother people. They will be able to harass people into having to kill them in order to play unhindered.

Edited by Hobbles v, 27 February 2016 - 11:15 AM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Hobbles v, on 27 February 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

If this does happen the threshold should be a moderate amount of damage (say 300) and/or at least 2 kills. just so it picks out obvious team killers and not incompetent pilots or just plain heat of battle mistakes.

I hit team mates all the time and even I think that's a stupid high number.

You are aiming at the RED mechs right?

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 27 February 2016 - 11:37 AM.

[MrMadguy]

As I predicted, we'll have strait team damage penalty - 21CB per 1 dmg. Not much, but still it's another nerf to our rewards, that are not so great now even without it. After implementation of Rewards 2.0 Assaults are completely overgimped. 70K CB (please note, that it's Hero 'Mech) and 250XP for good enough performance?? You're kidding me?

Edited by MrMadguy, 28 February 2016 - 12:58 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Wintersdark, on 27 February 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

I'm never really certain when you're being sarcastic or not...

With Mystere, the answer is always "both."

[Wintersdark]

MrMadguy, on 28 February 2016 - 12:56 AM, said:

As I predicted, we'll have strait team damage penalty - 21CB per 1 dmg. Not much, but still it's another nerf to our rewards, that are not so great now even without it. After implementation of Rewards 2.0 Assaults are completely overgimped. 70K CB (please note, that it's Hero 'Mech) and 250XP for good enough performance?? You're kidding me?

Another nerf to our rewards? Jesus dude. Stop the FF and it doesn't matter. In that match there, it would have cost you 63 cbills. That's it. Be a bit more careful and it's zero.

I just can't feel any pity for the plight of the player who's losing money BECAUSE HE CANT STOP SHOOTING HIS TEAMMATES.

I don't like penalties as a rule, but if there is to be any penalties at all, THIS IS THE THING.

[Tarogato]

My thoughts?

The team damage penalty needs to be multiplied by about 30. A trifle 21 C-Bills per team damage is absolutely nothing, it won't matter. I average between 20 and 60 team damage on my very worst matches, which is going to be a penalty somewhere between 420 and 1,260 C-Bills, which... is nothing. If you manage to deal 60 team damage in a match (which is quite a lot), that should take an actual chunk out of your earnings (as much as a Consumable, or 40,000 C-Bills), something that really punishes you and makes you consider your actions.

[oldradagast]

ExplicitContent, on 26 February 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

March patch brings an automatic penalty for team damage (amount to be determined) and team kills that works much in the same way as the disco penalty. Will this be effective to stop the team kills or the lazy aiming?

I think it is a welcomed change to keep people from trying to ruin others game-play experience.


Thoughts?

While I hate obvious team killers, I do wonder how this will interact with trolls who decide to stand in front of your guns, maybe even running mechs with minimal armor to make sure you kill them? Trolls are trolls - they are sub-human scum that get their sad little jollies out of screwing with other people, usually through odd game mechanics. It is folly to not consider what a terrible human being would do with a new mechanic like this one to make life harder for other people.

For the record, I deal well under 10 team damage in a typical match... though always about 1 from somebody bumping into me. That being said, I suspect this change will simply swap out some team-killers for griefers that run into lines of fire. An intelligent system would have compared damage done to the enemy vs. damage done to the team to judge intent, but we can't have nice things.

Edited by oldradagast, 28 February 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Tarogato, on 28 February 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

My thoughts?

The team damage penalty needs to be multiplied by about 30. A trifle 21 C-Bills per team damage is absolutely nothing, it won't matter. I average between 20 and 60 team damage on my very worst matches, which is going to be a penalty somewhere between 420 and 1,260 C-Bills, which... is nothing. If you manage to deal 60 team damage in a match (which is quite a lot), that should take an actual chunk out of your earnings (as much as a Consumable, or 40,000 C-Bills), something that really punishes you and makes you consider your actions.

See, I agree with this completely, which is why I'm horrified by the number of pilots complaining that 21 cbills per damage done is a somehow onerous burden, and that they just can't help stop doing so much FF damage.

[Roadkill]

Wintersdark, on 26 February 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

It shows how much FF you do at the end of a match. Do you regularly top 70 FF damage?

i mean, I run LRM's a lot too, but I don't think I've ever done more than 50 FF damage (excepting intentional FF vs. unit mates!

Yeah, me too. I'm typically single digits to the point that double-digit FF is noticeable on my end screen. I do recall a couple of times in the mid-30s, but 50? ... No, don't think I've ever gone that high. And if I really cared, I could make it so that double digits never happened. It's just not that hard to avoid shooting your teammates.

[Wintersdark]

Roadkill, on 28 February 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

Yeah, me too. I'm typically single digits to the point that double-digit FF is noticeable on my end screen. I do recall a couple of times in the mid-30s, but 50? ... No, don't think I've ever gone that high. And if I really cared, I could make it so that double digits never happened. It's just not that hard to avoid shooting your teammates.

Exactly.

Even topping 10 team damage is shocking for me, extremely rare. I can't recall ever topping 50. And at 21cbills per damage, 50 would be just 1050 c-bills. Hardly a big deal.