54 replies to this topic

[Sorbic]

I was actually dismayed that the penalty wasn't higher. It's rare that I ever even hit double digits as it's easy to avoid. Most "it's my team mates fault" is crap. You chose to shoot. I mean even a high amount like 30 dmg will only cost you a measly 630 cbills as it's a one to one conversion from dmg rewards.

Of course dmg rewards still need to be buffed to something reasonable but I think team dmg should be 2 to 3 times higher than the reward amount. Yes I will occasionally be unjustly penalized because some git ran straight at the red smoke for several seconds but lets not pretend like the outliers will be the norm or that it would even cost us that much.

[Hobbles v]

Who cares about the Cbill loss. They are proposing to make the penalties similar to those placed on disconnects. AKA delaying people from dropping. This is going to slow down already long waits. Especially when groups get stuck on a few dry drops in a row and now wont have anything to do to break up the monotony.

[Wildstreak]

I do not think any amount of penalties will stop some people from doing it intentionally. There are players with so many CB that they will not care about them.

[oldradagast]

I still say it's lazy implementation and just caters to the "anyone who damages an ally did it on purpose and is a horrible person who need to be banned!" crowd who tend to spend their time darting around between the guns of allied assault mechs and enemy targets. In the long run, it's probably much ado about nothing, but they could still have implemented it better than "do lots of damage to a team-mate and suffer" - that can just encourage griefers to drop in mechs with 0 armor and jump in the way of allies.

A smarter system would involve checks like:
- Checking for team kills early in the match since that's when standard trolls do their thing.
- Amount of damage done to team mates vs. enemies. If some sod accidentally alphas a friendly in the back (who probably stepped in front of his guns), but spends the rest of the match hammering the enemy to pieces, he's obviously not a "dirty teamkiller."

For the record, I rarely do more than 10 team damage a game, and most games it's 1 damage... probably from grazing an ally near the spawn point.

Edited by oldradagast, 05 March 2016 - 07:20 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

As a light pilot who occasionally gets TK'd while frantically running away from something really really scary by running in front of our assaults mechs I'd like to apologize in advance for giving you a penalty.

[Jman5]

Tarogato, on 28 February 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

My thoughts?

The team damage penalty needs to be multiplied by about 30. A trifle 21 C-Bills per team damage is absolutely nothing, it won't matter. I average between 20 and 60 team damage on my very worst matches, which is going to be a penalty somewhere between 420 and 1,260 C-Bills, which... is nothing. If you manage to deal 60 team damage in a match (which is quite a lot), that should take an actual chunk out of your earnings (as much as a Consumable, or 40,000 C-Bills), something that really punishes you and makes you consider your actions.

Seriously. I think the only time I hit over 50 team damage is when a teammate gets caught in one of my airstrikes.

A few other questions I have:

I wonder if these time penalties will be modified for CW. The longer matches over 4 mechs will mean higher than average team damage for everyone. Will the penalties be the same as Quickplay?

Also will the drop delays be additive for premades or will they just take the highest wait time?

[Mister Blastman]

Last night there was one dood in one game who ran in front of my shots EVERY SINGLE TIME I pulled the trigger. There were a few times where I'd been firing for a good second and BLAM... walked right into it.

PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE. If someone is shooting, don't be a clown and walk into their firing line.


I started letting him have it after a few times. I stopped pulling my shots. He deserved it.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 05 March 2016 - 08:44 AM.

[Zolaz]

Chados, on 27 February 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

If it starts at 50-70 I'm cool with it. I typically do at most in the 30s because of people shoving in front of me when I'm in a firefight. I've had TKs but only a couple, and the last one was a nimrod with a cored out back who jumped in front of a 32-point alpha strike and got it dead center, costing me $10,000 Cbills.

PGI says that was your fault. You need to be able to predict a few seconds into the future so that you will know when some surat is going to run into your field of fire. The problem isnt the TKs, those only happen every so often. However, run a stare them in the face dakka build and someone is going to be running into your AC fire almost every game.

[S13gtastic]

Don't like it, since team damage just happens. I've had moments where I've shot a unit members arm off to keep pressure on a firing line.

Trolling around with the intention of throwing a monkey wrench into a match and acceptable team damage are two different things to me.

[sycocys]

It's just going to be a nearly useless system (and waste of man-hours) that's only being created because PGI/Russ wants to actually appear like they care about TKing - despite the fact that they haven't punished a single intentional TK'er up to this point regardless of the amount of collected evidence or reporting.

[Nightmare1]

I think it's about time that we had an auto-penalty for team damage team killing. It's stupid how much of it goes on in some of these matches.

Had a Stalker pilot the other day who decided he didn't like the map selection, so he started shooting everyone on the team. Reported his sorry butt, but I doubt he got more than a gentle wrist slap.

[Trauglodyte]

Sometimes, team kills happen accidentally. I've TKed a friendly when the rest of my damage killed my primary target and a severely damaged friendly was standing in front of it (i.e., the other piece of the sandwich) only to take the rest of my volley. I've also killed 2 enemy mechs and a friendly in the same massive LRM volley. People sometimes just walk into it when they're face humping a target.

[Sorbic]

Hobbles v, on 27 February 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

No i don't consider up to 300 mistakes. You didn't read my post, i suggest wiggle room at the very least so people can defend themselves. A serial team killer will do a ton more team damage and doe not care about penalties. People defending themselves will get penalized for killing him (something that can take from 50-300 dmg to do). This system would wreck people for defending themselves.

Let me elaborate further. The thing that bugs me the most about the proposed system is that it is automated This means it will function on a set of rules and will likely be unable to account for context of how, why or when the team damage was dealt. Consider the following, all these scenarios that are common where people will be penalized and probably shouldnt.

- Teammate walks onto your LRM volley while they are travelling to target and dies.
- Teammate standing behind your target you just killed catches the back end of your Laser's burn duration since your targets dead mech no longer blocks the shot.
- Idiot in match is trolling your team, shooting off peoples arms, legs and stripping Armour. People who retaliate to stop him from doing more harm are penalized
- To spice up the boredom of a Dry drop in faction often a couple friends will duel why the rest of the team blows everything else up. We would also get penalized for legging the last guy to ready up on a dry drop if the full timer counts down (A friendly tradition my unit has).
- Light rushes, because of the swarming nature and cinfusion of Light rushes, team damage is typically much higher than normal during these.
- As a lost factions match is winding down you kill off the disconnected/ragequitter mechs sitting in your drop zone so the match doesn't have 3 minutes of your enemy just waiting for his other 3 mechs to drop.

In addition, since the system is automated, Griefers will be able to abuse it as another way to bother people. They will be able to harass people into having to kill them in order to play unhindered.

None of those scenarios (except maybe for goofing around in CW) are common. I might have killed one friendly with LRMs in almost 2 years and we hardly ever see griefers anymore. We need to remember that such scenarios are not the norm and stop acting like game dynamics should be built around said rarities. They are the outliers and taken over the course of say a 100 games will have almost no impact on your rewards unless you choose to inflict team damage.

On this whole rarity thing. I had eye surgery about 2.5 weeks ago and tried playing the game too soon. I apologize to whichever team mate (mates?) it was that I blindly lit up as my eyes welt up from the strain.

[Wintersdark]

Sorbic, on 05 March 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

None of those scenarios (except maybe for goofing around in CW) are common. I might have killed one friendly with LRMs in almost 2 years and we hardly ever see griefers anymore. We need to remember that such scenarios are not the norm and stop acting like game dynamics should be built around said rarities. They are the outliers and taken over the course of say a 100 games will have almost no impact on your rewards unless you choose to inflict team damage.

On this whole rarity thing. I had eye surgery about 2.5 weeks ago and tried playing the game too soon. I apologize to whichever team mate (mates?) it was that I blindly lit up as my eyes welt up from the strain.

Yup.

It's extremely rare. Maybe more common in T5, where random newly made accounts can troll, but as you rank up you stop seeing that (people become more risk adverse: trolling via teamkilling can cost you your account).

Ultimately, it doesn't much matter: Defending yourself from a teamkiller is pretty much pointless: You're going to lose that match no matter what, so the match is already ruined. The fact of the matter is, you don't need to defend yourself from a teamkiller. In fact, it's better if you don't, and let him rack up the team damage and team kills - it just speeds the rate he'll be banned at. Just report and get out of the match asap and start a new one.

With that said, I get that people take it personally, and want to defend themselves (even though ultimately it's useless): In that case, consider:

Damage done to teammate is 21 cbills per point of damage. Killing him in 300 damage will cost you 300*21=6300cbills + 10,000 cbills (teamkill penalty). 16300 total. Is 16,300 cbills to onerous a cost for self gratification? I'm sure you'll survive. Even though you're nearly certain to lose that match, you're at least going to make around 75k cbills, that more than covers the cost.

So, sure, maybe you think that self indulgence shouldn't cost you anything, but really, who cares? If it dissuades some careless friendly fire, then I'm all for it. Because right now, you can simply fire into a scrum and who cares if you're hitting friendlies too? It's rampantly bad in some events, and I'd REALLY like to see people at least hesitate a bit more before taking sketchy shots.

[Wintersdark]

Trauglodyte, on 05 March 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Sometimes, team kills happen accidentally. I've TKed a friendly when the rest of my damage killed my primary target and a severely damaged friendly was standing in front of it (i.e., the other piece of the sandwich) only to take the rest of my volley. I've also killed 2 enemy mechs and a friendly in the same massive LRM volley. People sometimes just walk into it when they're face humping a target.

Sometimes, yes. Be more careful, and in the times when you just can't help it, suck it up.

The penalty isn't that terrible; the RARE occasional team damage isn't going to cost you much of anything.

After all, an accidental team kill already costs you 10k cbills, nobody complains about that.

Edited by Wintersdark, 05 March 2016 - 02:12 PM.