252 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

MauttyKoray, on 26 February 2016 - 10:07 PM, said:

Pretty sure the pool to draw from is also dependent on the mech's size due to higher engines = more power, but end up not achieving as high of speeds on say heavy/assault instead of lights.

Doesn't solve the problem of situations like the Kit Fox having weaker power draw than the Arctic Cheetah, or other such examples.

Big XL engines don't need more incentives.

[SkaerKrow]

The potential issue is that not all alphas are created equal. A mech that alphas four Medium Lasers is not a problem. Four PPCs? That's a bigger deal. I hope that they're conscience of that fact while implementing whatever that this change is. Russ made it sound as if he wanted Alphas to be a desperation tactic that got used once per match or so.

[Steel Claws]

Then they better do something about all the little script kiddies. You take away the ability to alpha and it will become who can write the best script.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

SkaerKrow, on 26 February 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

The potential issue is that not all alphas are created equal. A mech that alphas four Medium Lasers is not a problem. Four PPCs? That's a bigger deal. I hope that they're conscience of that fact while implementing whatever that this change is. Russ made it sound as if he wanted Alphas to be a desperation tactic that got used once per match or so.

The last part, would be more in line with the lore and BT than what we have now, so I'm all for it. As to whether PGI can pull it off?

Hah. Hahaha. Heh.... yeah. Wait and see, really.

[SkaerKrow]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 26 February 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:

The last part, would be more in line with the lore and BT than what we have now, so I'm all for it. As to whether PGI can pull it off?

Hah. Hahaha. Heh.... yeah. Wait and see, really.

Yeah, I'm not bothered by a significant alpha strike being a serious commitment on the part of the attacker. I just hope that it isn't artificially inflated so that a 3 Medium Laser Spider gets as heavily penalized as a 4 PPC Mauler. Probably not, but sometimes game designers can surprise you with how they handle rules changes.

[Sandpit]

Just a quick note to everyone, please keep the personal attacks, off-topic, etc. stuff to another thread. I'm good about hitting the report button. This is a huge topic, a lot can be discussed in regards to it without derailing into trolling, so please, keep it friendly and on-topic

SkaerKrow, on 26 February 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

The potential issue is that not all alphas are created equal. A mech that alphas four Medium Lasers is not a problem. Four PPCs? That's a bigger deal. I hope that they're conscience of that fact while implementing whatever that this change is. Russ made it sound as if he wanted Alphas to be a desperation tactic that got used once per match or so.

well given that Russ specifically stated that I'd say it's a good chance they will

[SuomiWarder]

Hmmm, not enough info to really speculate. By "closer to BTech cannon" and longer time between big alphas it sounds like a system with a longer cycle between weapon discharge that grows with total damage squirted out. Closer to lore in that by lore you fire once every 10 seconds in tabletop. But right now we can only make w.a.g.s. about it.

[Zolaz]

Ghost heat to be replaced with something better? Sounds like a fairy tale. Well, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[Triordinant]

I like the part when he said that in a "perfect" setup you could only alpha once or twice in an entire match.

[MrMadguy]

One thing, that PGI seems to not understand, is that overcomplicating gameplay - is really bad thing. What is good for game - isn't necessary good for players. And there would be no game without players. We already have unplayable PPC, AC/10, AC/20, etc. due to being overnerfed. If new system will make this game unplayable even a little bit more - I won't play it. Heat scale penalties or way too low heat cap - are two example of overcomplicated features.

Edited by MrMadguy, 26 February 2016 - 11:01 PM.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

SuomiWarder, on 26 February 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

Hmmm, not enough info to really speculate. By "closer to BTech cannon" and longer time between big alphas it sounds like a system with a longer cycle between weapon discharge that grows with total damage squirted out. Closer to lore in that by lore you fire once every 10 seconds in tabletop. But right now we can only make w.a.g.s. about it.

Exactly. Need more info. Although I'm not sure if they'll increase time per shot, since I'm not certain if they'd consider that as falling under heat or weapon balance.

[Sandpit]

SuomiWarder, on 26 February 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

Hmmm, not enough info to really speculate. By "closer to BTech cannon" and longer time between big alphas it sounds like a system with a longer cycle between weapon discharge that grows with total damage squirted out. Closer to lore in that by lore you fire once every 10 seconds in tabletop. But right now we can only make w.a.g.s. about it.

that makes no sense though since he said it only affects alphas

[DGTLDaemon]

Were there any hints during the Town Hall as to whether the new system will deter alpha striking with the same weapons only, or with different weapons, too? Because the current ghost heat system is aimed strictly against boating, as you can still get huge alphas with no penalties by firing several different weapons simultaneously (for instance, cERLLs+cERMLs). I just hope they don't continue down that path and nerf boats into the ground. I don't like being forced to to use 3-4 different weapons/groups on my heavies and assaults...

[Dingo Battler]

So far we have:

1) Increasing cooldown for weapons in an alpha grouping, depending on size of alpha

2) Increasing weapon grouping to encompass more weapons

3) Increasing heat based on size of alphas

4) Weapons (specifically gauss and laser) limited by engine size (Can only draw power from engine)

5) Cap on number of similar weapons that can be fired (similar to gauss)

6) Lower heat cap, ie. a hot alpha will shut down your mech instantly. This seems most likely, as it'll pretty much kill laserwarrior online. I'll just use more gauss and AC5s

Could be anything really. I wouldn't be overly worried. Someone will find out the optimal combinations, it'll catch on the meta, and within the week, it'll be up on metamechs, and we'll be vomming alphas all over the place again.

Edited by KBurn85, 27 February 2016 - 12:22 AM.

[Sandpit]

DGTLDaemon, on 27 February 2016 - 12:03 AM, said:

Were there any hints during the Town Hall as to whether the new system will deter alpha striking with the same weapons only, or with different weapons, too? Because the current ghost heat system is aimed strictly against boating, as you can still get huge alphas with no penalties by firing several different weapons simultaneously (for instance, cERLLs+cERMLs). I just hope they don't continue down that path and nerf boats into the ground. I don't like being forced to to use 3-4 different weapons/groups on my heavies and assaults...

He didn't specifically state that, but he did say alphas specifically and gave alpha damage examples. He said he doesn't want alphas to be used like they are now. They're meant to be used in a more rare fashion jsut like in lore

[El Bandito]

PGI better implement "Group Chain Fire" command if they are willing to do away with alphas. MW2 had that command, MW3 had it, why can't MWO?

Edited by El Bandito, 27 February 2016 - 12:20 AM.

[Sandpit]

KBurn85, on 27 February 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

Someone will find out the optimal combinations, it'll catch on the meta, and within the week, it'll be up on metamechs, and we'll be vomming alphas all over the place again.

you just described every game with customization. It's min/max math on paper. There's always going to be that element.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 26 February 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

Power draw capacity would be potentially perfecct

ACs.. missiles...

How is power draw going to stop weapons that use fractional power draw, compared to, say, every energy weapon?

[DGTLDaemon]

Sandpit, on 27 February 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

He didn't specifically state that, but he did say alphas specifically and gave alpha damage examples. He said he doesn't want alphas to be used like they are now. They're meant to be used in a more rare fashion jsut like in lore

So we are back to square one: what does he mean by "alphas" - firing multiple weapons of the same type simultaneously, or simply firing multiple weapons simultaneously? I guess we'll have to wait and see...

[Davegt27]

Remember the people that where complaining about cone of fire, convergence, and high alpha

Well looks like your crying got through to them this should solve your complaints

But (yeah there is a but)

Old ANG proverb don’t complain you will only make things worse

I predict things will get worse that is you won’t like the changes