1212 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 March 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

It may do them well, but it isn't what it does best.


If you abuse the main strength of the Hunchback they aren't quite as squishy. Long range with as high of mounts/cockpit as this thing has makes it a very powerful poke mech.


Where the mounts are matter a lot, lest it become another Gargoyle. It could become a Clan BK, but doubtful since that is the SCrows job.


That's a very misleading statement, it has near double the hardpoints, but not double the tonnage. It is also very slow for a 40 tonner. Just like all the other 40 tonners, it will need quirks.

Slow before the Clans was sub 85 KPH on a medium. Perspective. It is a CLAN medium that can survive half a mech lost. After clans, slow became relative. We have no Clan 40 ton mech, but the Pouncer cruises at ~100 KPH. The Adder has no survivability issues at its speed despite being even lighter armored. Further, it has no additional free tonnage over the Adder, but it has the hardpoints to do more with that tonnage. That goes very far. 8 ERMLas and 18 DHS is not something you can do on an Adder. 6 MPlas and 14 DHS is something you cannot do on an Adder. Hell, 11 ERSLas and 18 (19 with half a ton shaved) DHS cannot fit on an Adder. Jump jets outright can't be done on an Adder.

The maximum firepower potential isn't double that of an adder. I was wrong. It is almost triple that of an adder. My mistake.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 23 March 2016 - 12:55 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 23 March 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

two UAC/5's, one LB-5X

That's all in one arm, and equals 10 crits which backs that up, to mount dual Gauss, you need the D variant which has Heavy lasers.

[Gas Guzzler]

Guys,

The Viper could potentially be quite good, hitbox dependent.

It is the same speed as a Cheetah, but has full true dubs and I think an extra ton of podspace to work with, and its hardpoints are better. It could easily do 6 cSPLs, with 4 in the torsos and 2 in one arm, and its arms aren't low like the Cheetahs, so it will in some ways be very similar to a Wolfhound, with Jump Jets. I actually think this could be a very good "superlight" mech. AND it fills that 40 ton spot we are missing.

The Kingfisher.. while short on podspace, it has the ability to bring firepower similar to what a Banshee would bring with similar style hardpoints. I will post the picture again:



See those dots next to the cockpit? What we have here is essentially a Clan Banshee that is ~4kph slower and could potentially ship with ECM. Definitely worth a grab in my opinion.

Night Gyr speaks for itself, dual gauss, ~5 tons of ammo, ~15-16 DHS, 4 cERMLs, 4 JJs. Two thumbs up, can also do 3 UAC10s with decent ammo allocation. No other heavy mech can do that in this game. 4 UAC5s is also bound to be good.

Fire Moth for nostalgia/20 ton slot, and because 200 kph would be a ton of fun, and with ~5 ERSLs it wouldn't even be terrible... until it got hit with dual gauss.


EDIT: BONUS POINTS FOR WHOEVER CAN TELL ME WHY THE **** THE FISHER HAS 2 COCKPITS ??????

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 23 March 2016 - 01:01 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 23 March 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

Slow before the Clans was sub 85 KPH on a medium.

This isn't pre-Clans either, and many mechs from that era have fallen. We also never had a 40 tonner that ran that slow in the meta, because they are so similar/close to lights.

Pariah Devalis, on 23 March 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

We have no Clan 40 ton mech, but the Pouncer cruises at ~100 KPH. The Adder has no survivability issues at its speed despite being even lighter armored.

Wat, yes it does. The only saving grace for the Adder has been Streaks.

Pariah Devalis, on 23 March 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

Further, it has no additional free tonnage over the Adder, but it has the hardpoints to do more with that tonnage. That goes very far. 8 ERMLas and 18 DHS is not something you can do on an Adder. 6 MPlas and 14 DHS is something you cannot do on an Adder. Hell, 11 ERSLas and 18 (19 with half a ton shaved) DHS cannot fit on an Adder. Jump jets outright can't be done on an Adder.

I'm not saying it is worse than the Adder, but it won't be that much more viable without quirks than the Adder is currently. Sure you can do 8 ERML (though why would you), but the Jenner IIC can do 6 ERML on a smaller platform, go faster, and jump. So why would you bother with it?

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 March 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

Jenner IIC can do 6 ERML

After trying this out, I agree this build is awesome.

[Gas Guzzler]

As a side note, next week we could potentially get the townhall that announces this pack that we have been arguing about for 60 pages.

A day of reckoning.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 March 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

Wat, yes it does. The only saving grace for the Adder has been Streaks.

Only if you insist on playing the chassis incorrectly. The mech is a rear-line support mech, ideally with direct fire support in ERLLas, ERPPC, or, believe it or not, UAC2 (you might laugh, but holy balls its it fun, and surprisingly effective). Like a tiny Awesome. Unless you go full SRM or SSRM, in which case it still isn't supposed to be the first thing the enemy sees. If you're out in front in an Adder, you made some seriously questionable life choices.

Quote

I'm not saying it is worse than the Adder, but it won't be that much more viable without quirks than the Adder is currently. Sure you can do 8 ERML (though why would you), but the Jenner IIC can do 6 ERML on a smaller platform, go faster, and jump. So why would you bother with it?

Tonnage limits. People pooh pooh CW all day, but it doesn't mean we should totally ignore that dropdeck tonnage limits exist for those who enjoy the game mode. If you want to play a higher tonnage mech without sacrificing viability in the lighter tonnage mechs than we need to have those tonnage slots filled with mechs that can throw a punch. It doesn't matter if the Jenner IIC or the ACH do scouting better, as the Pouncer isn't a scout. It doesn't matter if they can carry the same weapons, if the Pouncer can do so with a far higher heat efficiency and better armor protection. Besides which, it isn't competing with them. It should be competing with other 40 ton mechs.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 23 March 2016 - 01:05 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 March 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

As a side note, next week we could potentially get the townhall that announces this pack that we have been arguing about for 60 pages.

A day of reckoning.

Then we can argue about the viability of what are announced for 60 more pages in various threads.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 March 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

Then we can argue about the viability of what are announced for 60 more pages in various threads.

It never ends.... I just want it to end..

[Cy Mitchell]

Coralld, on 23 March 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

How in the hell is the Blanner winning over say the Huntsman or any other medium that doesn't suck?
Looks to me that people are not doing their homework on these mechs.

55 ton
119 KPH - 150KPHw/ MASC
ECS
CAP
XL
Endo
Ferro-Fibrous
Cockpit level or higher mount points on right arm
PPC/MPL version
LRM20 version
6 ML/SSRM6 version
AC/ML version
and more!

Bird legs instead of humanoid (personal preference)

Fast, Fast, Fast, Speed Kills Fast.

Clans need another good Medium and the Black Lanner would fit the bill.

Meta changes. This Mech has enough variations to adapt.

Did I mention that is fast?

[Pariah Devalis]

Rampage, on 23 March 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

55 ton
119 KPH - 150KPHw/ MASC
ECS
CAP
XL
Endo
Ferro-Fibrous
Cockpit level or higher mount points on right arm
PPC/MPL version
LRM20 version
6 ML/SSRM6 version
AC/ML version
and more!

Bird legs instead of humanoid (personal preference)

Fast, Fast, Fast, Speed Kills Fast.

Clans need another good Medium and the Black Lanner would fit the bill.

Meta changes. This Mech has enough variations to adapt.

Did I mention that is fast?

11.5 tons of pod space.

Eleven. Point. Five. If you thought the Shadow Cat was underwhelming, at least it can jump. Realistically, all the Bad Lanner can do is run fast and carry ERSLas. As a 55 ton mech, however, it is a little big to rely on speed alone to avoid weaponsfire.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 23 March 2016 - 01:09 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Rampage, on 23 March 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

55 ton
119 KPH - 150KPHw/ MASC
ECS
CAP
XL
Endo
Ferro-Fibrous
Cockpit level or higher mount points on right arm
PPC/MPL version
LRM20 version
6 ML/SSRM6 version
AC/ML version
and more!

Bird legs instead of humanoid (personal preference)

Fast, Fast, Fast, Speed Kills Fast.

Clans need another good Medium and the Black Lanner would fit the bill.

Meta changes. This Mech has enough variations to adapt.

Did I mention that is fast?

We also know from Falcon Rising that a FREEBIRTH in a Nopeva could defeat a trueborn warrior in a Black Lanner, so there is that to consider.... amiright guys?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 23 March 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Only if you insist on playing the chassis incorrectly. The mech is a rear-line support mech, ideally with direct fire support in ERLLas, ERPPC

Even with ERLLs, it is super squishy, and ERPPCs are still too hot to be worth it. It is still super squishy, because it can't use speed to hit at angles unexpected by enemies like other lights can to somewhat counter its squishiness.

Pariah Devalis, on 23 March 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Besides which, it isn't competing with them. It should be competing with other 40 ton mechs.

Mechs do not exist in a vacuum, if what they can do is not as optimal as a mech 5 tons less, than its going to be bad. Saying it isn't a scout doesn't say much because tonnage directly impacts what it is useful for unless we have another Blackjack incident where it gets double structure. The Jenner IIC with 6 ERML is not quite a scout either (at least not like the Cheetah), just like the Oxide isn't really a scout.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 March 2016 - 01:09 PM, said:

Even with ERLLs, it is super squishy, and ERPPCs are still too hot to be worth it. It is still super squishy, because it can't use speed to hit at angles unexpected by enemies like other lights can to somewhat counter its squishiness.



Mechs do not exist in a vacuum, if what they can do is not as optimal as a mech 5 tons less, than its going to be bad. Saying it isn't a scout doesn't say much because tonnage directly impacts what it is useful for unless we have another Blackjack incident where it gets double structure. The Jenner IIC with 6 ERML is not quite a scout either (at least not like the Cheetah), just like the Oxide isn't really a scout.

I disagree. I mean, I do agree it isn't a vacuum, but there is a degree of weight matching going on now in public drop, and in CW there is the fixed tonnage rules. Therefore, 40 tons competes with 40 tons. If we're in a brawling map, I rather take the 40 ton mech with 10 ERSLas than the 35 ton mech with 6 SPLas. The speed won't help nearly as much as the firepower or the heat efficiency.

Turns out most of the CW maps we have are brawly, with Boreal and the canyon ones being unusually long range based. All the others are extremely easy to get into knife fights with.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 23 March 2016 - 01:16 PM.

[dervishx5]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 March 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

EDIT: BONUS POINTS FOR WHOEVER CAN TELL ME WHY THE **** THE FISHER HAS 2 COCKPITS ??????

For the same reason the Thug can't see forward.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 23 March 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

Therefore, 40 tons competes with 40 tons. If we're in a brawling map, I rather take the 40 ton mech with 10 ERSLas than the 35 ton mech with 6 SPLas.

Which is where we disagree, because speed is important even in brawls, and SPLs are better at brawling than ERSL due to duration and are slightly more efficient (and don't require chainfire). Consider this, 6 SPLs = 6 tons for 36 damage, 7 ERSL = 35 damage for 3.5 tons, even with 2 DHS, the 6 SPLs are cooler than the 7 ERSL (not considering ghost heat either).

Though, lasers for brawling is silly now unless you don't have any other option to begin with, which is where the Jenny IIC comes in as well.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 23 March 2016 - 01:23 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 23 March 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

I disagree. I mean, I do agree it isn't a vacuum, but there is a degree of weight matching going on now in public drop, and in CW there is the fixed tonnage rules. Therefore, 40 tons competes with 40 tons. If we're in a brawling map, I rather take the 40 ton mech with 10 ERSLas than the 35 ton mech with 6 SPLas. The speed won't help nearly as much as the firepower or the heat efficiency.

Turns out most of the CW maps we have are brawly, with Boreal and the canyon ones being unusually long range based. All the others are extremely easy to get into knife fights with.

But a Viper with 6 cSPLs has less face time, no ghost heat, runs 139 kph, an extra Truedub, and better hops. In the 20-40 ton range, speed really is life... Adder has some poking uses sure, but Vipers will be more fun to play and used more often.

My 2 cents in this argument. As always, my stance is typically "release them all gosh darnit"

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 March 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

Though, lasers for brawling is silly now unless you don't have any other option to begin with, which is where the Jenny IIC comes in as well.

That can't be right, I am constantly reading posts by forumites saying that laser vomit is the end all be all and needs to be nerfed.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 March 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

But a Viper with 6 cSPLs has less face time, no ghost heat, runs 139 kph, an extra Truedub, and better hops. In the 20-40 ton range, speed really is life... Adder has some poking uses sure, but Vipers will be more fun to play and used more often.

My 2 cents in this argument. As always, my stance is typically "release them all gosh darnit"

Any 40-tonner adds something new to the Clans. Any of them. If only because of the tonnage slot.

[Coralld]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 March 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

It never ends.... I just want it to end..

If I have learned anything from these forums it's that it will never end.

[Gas Guzzler]

dervishx5, on 23 March 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

For the same reason the Thug can't see forward.

? wat?

Regardless, if we get the Kingfisher I hope PGI uses the top cockpit.