92 replies to this topic

[Zordicron]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

We took it down many notches, then bishop steiner made insult threats aimed at us and said we were being immature.

Keep calling us zealots, because you're just proving my point.

I have nothing to do with what Bishop posts. In fact, we have different points of view fairly often, I am certainly not some groupie yes man for him.

I came to the decision to use the word zealots of my own accord, fairly recently, as every time I open the GD forums there is a thread by one of a very select few people on the front page getting bumped by mostly the same people over and over repeating the same thing. Simultaneously refusing any logical discussion about the mech, and dismissing any concerns as personal attacks. I mean you could use just my comments in this thread, but I am talking about ALL the threads, as this is what they have degraded to.


In some of the many other threads, any tiny bit of discussion was rapidly destroyed by what is most easily described as the forum post equivolant of a juvenile tantrum. "I want my binky" and such, and when some one says "yeah but" then its rage time by the "pro Mk2" campaign.

When you repeat the same thing over and over and refuse any discussion about the topic with people that disagree with you, the term zealots fits rather well.


I want to see the MK2 in game. LATER. Like, prolly next year later. After all the stuff in the last town hall pans out, and CW is fairly polished up etc. Russ has been struggling to figure out a balance between clan and IS with the current crop of high tier clan mechs. We DO NOT need to add a giant log onto the fire he has only barely contained. Let's wait until we are roasting marshmallows over it and having a cold beer after before we decide to squirt some lighter fluid into it for the sake of a minority.

[stuntmahn]

Hit the Deck, on 27 February 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

BTW I can't write a thread stating that I want something. That would be lame.

And there it is. That is exactly how I (and I imagine FupDup and many more) feel about this thread and others like it.

[Luminis]

Hit the Deck, on 27 February 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

The Blood Asp and Kodiak share the same problem that the Gausses are mounted on the ST. If you disregard that, then yes, they serve the same purpose as the Mad Cat Mk.II.

I'll disregard that difference for two reasons: Low-slung hardpoints on snipey weapons aren't favourable (Cataphract says hi) and you're essentially trading a higher chance of losing a ST for being more easily disarmed because arms are easier to destroy than a ST.

I honestly don't think the Mk II is going to play very different. The Blood Asp at least brings a somewhat unique hardpoint location for the Gausses...

Hit the Deck, on 27 February 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

BTW I can't write a thread stating that I want something. That would be lame.

The content is the same anyway, so why shouldn't it say so on the tin?

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Hit the Deck, on 27 February 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

Yay, another Mad Cat Mk. II thread!

There are a couple of reasons for a Mad Cat Mk. II that I will mention later but the main one is to take advantage of the new buffed Clan Targeting Computer, particularly the higher level ones. On to the build itself:

Mad Cat Mk. II:

• 2x cGauss (5t ammo)
  
• 4x cERML
  
• TC Mk. V (+30% projectile speed bonus)
  
• Endo, Ferro, XL375 (70.8 kph), 14 DHS, 1x JJ
  
• Firepower equivalent to the 100t 2Gauss+3LL KGC

The philosophy of this build is not to cram as much Gauss Vomit firepower as possible (that would be something like 2Gauss+2LPL+2ERML with no JJ and a downgraded engine to mount more DHS) but to create a mobile dual Gauss platform which hopefully will set the bar of "dual Gauss-ing performance" (not sure WTH that means). With +30% speed bonus from the Mk. V Targeting Computer, a Gauss projectile flies at 2600 m/s which is very fast - almost instantaneous at short distances.


Currently there's no suitable dual Gauss platform which has this unique combination: mobile and can take advantage of the new TCs. The Warhawk cannot mount the bigger TCs because of its locked DHS and the Whale is slow. The other Clan Mechs are also limited. Even if you don't like Gauss, consider that neither Clan nor IS has a quick 90 tonner so it will add something new.

It would be awesome if the 'Mech can do all of that but carries dual Clan LPLs instead of a quartet of ERMLs. Unfortunately that's not possible and perhaps asking a bit too much - I'd be pretty satisfied with this configuration!

I 100% support this decision.


#MadCatMk_II2016

[Hit the Deck]

stuntmahn, on 27 February 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

And there it is. That is exactly how I (and I imagine FupDup and many more) feel about this thread and others like it.

The 'Mech is actually secondary, it can be Mad Cat Mk. II or something else. The most important thing is that it can do the loadout written on the original post.

But Mad Cat Mk. II looks good and it's naturally suitable for the job so I support it.

Luminis, on 27 February 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

I'll disregard that difference for two reasons: Low-slung hardpoints on snipey weapons aren't favourable...

What low slung hardpoints on the Mad Cat Mk. II? It doesn't have any....

Edited by Hit the Deck, 27 February 2016 - 02:10 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

I'm loving the double standards people have.

people didn't want the Flea and made all sorts of excuses for not being able to have it.

Yet one clan mech doesn't get in due to the timeline and the water works start happening.

[Luminis]

Hit the Deck, on 27 February 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

What low slung hardpoints on the Mad Cat Mk. II? It doesn't have any....

Had the botched miniature from that MechWarrior table top game in head - my bad.

Eh, so it's basically worse convergence and being easier to disarm for arm mounted Gausses vs. potential ST losses for ST mounted Gausses. Big deal.

Still nothing new of importance the Mk. II adds to the game, is there?

Edited by Luminis, 27 February 2016 - 02:19 PM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Myyrath, on 27 February 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

We don't need any new mechs.

/thread

We need Quadrupeds.
They're quite literally the only mechs that'd actually introduce something new to the game, other than aesthetics/hardpoint layout

Can we de-rail this thread into some pro-quad propaganda thread? No? Just me?
Yeah, ok.

[Lupis Volk]

Juodas Varnas, on 27 February 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Can we de-rail this thread into some pro-quad propaganda thread? No? Just me?
Yeah, ok.

Only if i can then turn it into a revive the Flea thread.

[Hit the Deck]

Luminis, on 27 February 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

...
Still nothing new of importance the Mk. II adds to the game, is there?

No Mech so far can add something meaningful into the game besides Kraken, perhaps, and what the gentleman to posts above me said.

[Bishop Steiner]

Zordicron, on 27 February 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

I like how you know the hitboxes will be better.

This is the million dollar question.

We have neither mech in game. No qualitative way to compare, atm. Just "educated" guesswork. And since folks posts seem to indicate that education ended in Elementary School.

But using educated guesswork of the Kodiak orthos, and the traditional depictions of the Madcat mkII..... and what we DO know of the Timberwolf....

Unless PGI really pooches it, the Kodiak will have outstanding hitbox to shield and spread damage.

How do we know? Because the most important attribute for that is a combination of MASSIVE arms, and a high engine for that twist rate.

Umm... check and check?

The arms are such that minus really dumb hitbox management at the shoulders, that from the side, hitting the torsos will prove all but impossible.

The MkII? One of the constant refrains is the mediocrity of its hitboxes. The MkII arms are better than the TBR for soaking, but not near as all-blocking as the KDK.

So just on basic examination, hitbox does NOT appear to have any reasonable expectation of superiority over the Kodiak.

Nor does it appear to have hardpoints that are remotely superior in ejection to the Kodiak. It should have the advantage of being able to depress and elevated the arms, though, which is rather useful.

Both should be able to fulfill the role fine, though barring IIC level squishiness, the Kodiak seems almost wasted not bring a brawler.

*shrug*

For an Assault Gauss Sniper, the clear superior choice is the Blood Asp. Jump sniping in assaults is like watching giant tortoises mate, so the JJ "advantage", sans any significant JJ buff or quirks ( which we have no reason to expect) is laughably overstated.

On the other hand, the above the cockpit hardpoints for the Asp are ideal for hillhumping, something an Assault is far better suited for than jump sniping.

Will the mkII probably be a fun, useful, all purpose design when it does arrive? Yeah, safe bet.

Is it " the answer " to what ails the Clans in CW? Not on honest inspection. Won't hurt, though, either.

I'd actually have a lot more respect for the MiffedKitty crowd of they'd just be honest and admit they want it because of MW4 nostalgia, instead of coming up with some frankly... Interesting.... Justifications for how useful it will be, etc.

Hey, I flat out admired the Urbie would not likely be good when I"campaigned " for it. (Even if most people posting attention knew that I was really as surprised as anyone it actually happened.... And doubly so that it was not just fun... But decent)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 27 February 2016 - 03:04 PM.

[1453 R]

PBiggz: the issue is less "we all hate the Mad Cat Mk. II and want it to never be added to the game" and more "If Imperius smacks us all in the face with his mutant six-foot Mk. II stiffie one more f***ing time..."

The guy never. Shuts. UP. Every thread, on every topic, the moment someone mentions the Mk. II - or the timeline, or gauss rifles, or assault 'Mechs, or anything which might be considered related to the subject by someone on the planet at some point in time - Imperius is there to plug the 'Mech again. Russ specifically gave the man his answer - Piranha currently doesn't consider it within the acceptable timeline slice we're shooting for, and would like to focus on getting some older, less renowned chassis in first before advancing the timeline. One of MWO's greatest strengths, especially compared to older MechWarrior titles, is its huge spread of available 'Mechs, getting bigger all the time. There's no reason for Piranha to abandon the rest of the current-time stable just yet, especially when they're putting a lot of resources in Commodity Warfare 3 and don't have the mojo to also do a major tech pass and introduce a bunch of new crap again.

Imperius has his answer. He's just ignoring it because it's not the answer we're hoping for. And so, apparently, is Hit The Deck.

Nobody is arguing that the Mad Cat Mk. II is a bad 'Mech, or that it'll never get in, or any of that. What people want is for Imperius, Imperius, Imperius, also Imperius, and to a much lesser extent CK16 and now apparently Hit The Deck, to stop throwing the muthahclucking thing in our faces EVERY FOURTEEN GODDAMN SECONDS, and to wait their flippin' turn like everyone else who wants future-timeline, MW4-era 'Mechs.

CK's being mostly good about it. Hit The Deckjust has awful timing. But Imperius? yes - Imperius has actively poisoned much of the playerbase against the machine by being a caustic bag of douches, extremely venomous towards anyone who doesn't want to hump the Mk. II's leg the same way he does, and also just NEVER SHUTTING UP ABOUT IT!!

Imp?

WE GET IT ALREADY.


Stop.

Just...stop.


EDIT:: Hit the Deck, not Hillslam. Sorry, dunno where my brain went.

Edited by 1453 R, 27 February 2016 - 02:39 PM.

[Khobai]

I seriously hope the madcat MK2 never gets added

[pbiggz]

1453 R, on 27 February 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

PBiggz: the issue is less "we all hate the Mad Cat Mk. II and want it to never be added to the game" and more "If Imperius smacks us all in the face with his mutant six-foot Mk. II stiffie one more f***ing time..."

The guy never. Shuts. UP. Every thread, on every topic, the moment someone mentions the Mk. II - or the timeline, or gauss rifles, or assault 'Mechs, or anything which might be considered related to the subject by someone on the planet at some point in time - Imperius is there to plug the 'Mech again. Russ specifically gave the man his answer - Piranha currently doesn't consider it within the acceptable timeline slice we're shooting for, and would like to focus on getting some older, less renowned chassis in first before advancing the timeline. One of MWO's greatest strengths, especially compared to older MechWarrior titles, is its huge spread of available 'Mechs, getting bigger all the time. There's no reason for Piranha to abandon the rest of the current-time stable just yet, especially when they're putting a lot of resources in Commodity Warfare 3 and don't have the mojo to also do a major tech pass and introduce a bunch of new crap again.

Imperius has his answer. He's just ignoring it because it's not the answer we're hoping for. And so, apparently, is Hillslam.

Nobody is arguing that the Mad Cat Mk. II is a bad 'Mech, or that it'll never get in, or any of that. What people want is for Imperius, Imperius, Imperius, also Imperius, and to a much lesser extent CK16 and now apparently Hillslam, to stop throwing the muthahclucking thing in our faces EVERY FOURTEEN GODDAMN SECONDS, and to wait their flippin' turn like everyone else who wants future-timeline, MW4-era 'Mechs.

CK's being mostly good about it. Hillslam just has awful timing. But Imperius? yes - Imperius has actively poisoned much of the playerbase against the machine by being a caustic bag of douches, extremely venomous towards anyone who doesn't want to hump the Mk. II's leg the same way he does, and also just NEVER SHUTTING UP ABOUT IT!!

Imp?

WE GET IT ALREADY.


Stop.

Just...stop.

So what I just said. You're all here because you hate imperius. Good for you.

[Luminis]

Hit the Deck, on 27 February 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

No Mech so far can add something meaningful into the game besides Kraken, perhaps, and what the gentleman to posts above me said.

So we don't need the Mk. II.

Which brings me back to: You wanting it doesn't mean we need it.

[pbiggz]

Khobai, on 27 February 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

I seriously hope the madcat MK2 never gets added

Nobody cares.

[Khobai]

Quote

Nobody cares.

Exactly nobody cares about the Madcat mk2.

[1453 R]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

So what I just said. You're all here because you hate imperius. Good for you.

What do you want, dude?

What is it you actually want?

Yes - I'm p!ssed the hell off at Imperius because he's been being a whiny brat about this 'Mech for a long while now. He managed to get an answer directly from Russ, in a Town Hall and thus as in-person as it is possible for an answer to get, and he's flat-out ignoring it. If anyone else did that, they would not be lauded as examples of heroic tenacity in the face of adversity the way you keep trumpeting, they would be regarded as thickheaded nitwits who need to face facts already.

Why does Imp get a pass?

[pbiggz]

Khobai, on 27 February 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

Exactly nobody cares about my manchild salt

FTFY

[Hit the Deck]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

For an Assault Gauss Sniper, the chest superior choice is the Blood Asp.

Why don't you mention about it's possible hitboxes? They would be pretty bad if we follow the art and existing 3D models people created.

I like the Asp but it has that protruding head (CT) you can always shoot from the sides. The extra gun height from the cockpit would not matter really much.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 27 February 2016 - 02:41 PM.