32 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

Would you Support=
-1Damage -1Heat -5-20%Duration +0.5CoolDown on All Clan Lasers?
this Consept is for Better Balance, Clan Laser to Being Closer to IS Lasers,
(New Stats C= +1Damage +1Heat +30%Duration These Values can Flex)
(V= Values that have gone Down)(^= Values that have gone Up)

=Normal Laser Stats=
Laser,.........Damage,...Heat,...CoolDown,...Duration,...DPS,...DPH,...
C-ERSL,...........5.............3..........2.25,...........1.00.......1.54....1.67....
SL,....................3.............2..........2.25,...........0.75.......1.00....1.50....
New=C-ERSL....4v..........2.6v.......2.75^,..........0.90v......1.10v..1.53v...

C-ERML,...........7.............6..........3.00,...........1.15.......1.69....1.17....
ML,....................5.............4..........3.00,...........0.90.......1.28....1.25....
New=C-ERML,...6v...........5v.........3.50^,..........1.00v.....1.33v...1.20v....

C-ERLL,..........11...........10..........3.25,...........1.50.......2.32....1.10....
LL,....................9.............7..........3.25,...........1.00.......2.12....1.29....
ERLL,...............9.............8..........3.25,...........1.25.......2.00....1.13....
New=C-ERLL,..10v..........9v.........3.75^,..........1.25v.....2.00v...1.11v....

=Pulse Laser Stats=
Pulse,...........Damage,...Heat,...CoolDown,...Duration,...DPS,...DPH,...
C-SPL,...............6.............3..........2.25,...........0.75.......2.00....2.00....
SPL,...................4.............2..........2.25,...........0.50.......1.45....2.00....
New=C-SPL........5v..........2.6v.......2.75^,..........0.65v.....1.47v..1.92v....

C-MPL,...............8.............6..........3.00,...........0.85.......2.08....1.33....
MPL,...................6.............4..........3.00,...........0.60.......1.67....1.50....
New=C-MPL,.......7v...........5v.........3.50^,..........0.75v.....1.64v...1.40v....

C-LPL,...............13...........10..........3.25,...........1.12.......2.97....1.30....
LPL,...................11.............7..........3.25,...........0.67.......2.81....1.57....
New=C-LPL,.......12v...........9v.........3.75^,..........0.85v.....2.60v..1.33v....

You Choose whats Closer?

(VOTE!)
(RESULTS!)

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Added Stats,
Edit2- Added (V)&(^) Symbles

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 27 February 2016 - 05:58 PM.

[YaKillinMeSmalls]

Um, why not use the forum poll tool?
I'm not clicking some shady link.

[Paigan]

You realize that for example setting the ERSL from 3/5 to 2/4 boosts it's heat efficiency from 1.67 dph to 2.00 dph, do you?
Oh, hehe and the SPL from 2.00 to 2.50

Edited by Paigan, 27 February 2016 - 12:20 PM.

[El Bandito]

So 6 damage, 5 heat, 0.92 duration CERML with 405 base range, or 7 damage, 5 heat, 0.68 duration CMPL with 330 base range? Are you nuts?

Just imagined a 12 damage, 9 heat, 0.9 duration CLPL, with 600 base range. SMH...

-20% to duration is simply too good, it is basically a buff to all Clan lasers, as if they need buffs in the first place.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 February 2016 - 12:37 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

No.

[Luminis]

Why would you want to buff Clan lasers? Making them more heat efficient and lowering the burn time massively outweighs the lowered damage you're proposing.

[Cyborx]

it´s really bitter that MWO nowadays attracts players like OP.
Think first about consequences or your opinion is worth a ....!

[Andi Nagasia]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 27 February 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Um, why not use the forum poll tool?
I'm not clicking some shady link.

because one does not Simply Add a Poll to General Discussion,

Paigan, on 27 February 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

You realize that for example setting the ERSL from 3/5 to 2/4 boosts it's heat efficiency from 1.67 dph to 2.00 dph, do you?
Oh, hehe and the SPL from 2.00 to 2.50

worked over the Stats, i ment for the 25%ish, allowing for Flexability,
i didnt mean for 20% to be a Stat Set in Stone, sorry for the Confusion,

El Bandito, on 27 February 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

So 6 damage, 5 heat, 0.92 duration CERML with 405 base range, or 7 damage, 5 heat, 0.68 duration CMPL with 330 base range? Are you nuts?

Just imagined a 12 damage, 9 heat, 0.9 duration CLPL, with 600 base range. SMH...

-20% to duration is simply too good, it is basically a buff to all Clan lasers, as if they need buffs in the first place.

Refined what i ment, please see above Comment,
Working on the Pulse Laser side of the Stats, give me abit,

Yeonne Greene, on 27 February 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

No.

Thanks Yeonne aways a Pleasure

Luminis, on 27 February 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

Why would you want to buff Clan lasers? Making them more heat efficient and lowering the burn time massively outweighs the lowered damage you're proposing.

the idea was more Side Grade to bring Techs Closer and Lower Laser Alpha Damage,
if not by Just 3-6 damage, but thats still closer to What IS can Dump out in Damage,

Cyborx, on 27 February 2016 - 01:09 PM, said:

it´s really bitter that MWO nowadays attracts players like OP.
Think first about consequences or your opinion is worth a ....!

thank you by Judging me in the First 5 seconds, im sure im a horrible person,
Edit- Spacing

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 27 February 2016 - 01:35 PM.

[sycocys]

No.

All clan mech should get full power then have their controls replaced by the system they use in drunk driving simulators.

[Sjorpha]

No, the factions should be made more different, not less.

I'd rather do the opposite and increase damage, heat and duration. But I'm pretty fine with the current difference as well.

[Zordicron]

First of all, a clan ERML shares more stat wise to an IS LL then an IS ML by far.

It is better to think the clan ERML gives up a bit of range and dmg in exchange for saving 4 tons over the IS, then it is to compare the ERML to the IS ML which basically surpasses it in every way except duration.

Like all "clan vs IS" laser spreadsheet threads, you fail at looking at the larger picture and get hung up on "they both are named medium". NOTHING in your stats has anything to do with tonnage, which means it is incomplete at best and horribly skewed at worst.


Outside of that, Russ said in the town hall last night there are heat scale/ghost heat changes coming. Everything regarding weapon balance might as well get put in the fridge until that comes about.

[Monkey Lover]

As long as the DPS HPS stays the same I would support allowing every player to select what ever duration they want.

[sycocys]

Monkey Lover, on 27 February 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

As long as the DPS HPS stays the same I would support allowing every player to select what ever duration they want.

.1 Second. For everything.

[Monkey Lover]

sycocys, on 27 February 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

.1 Second. For everything.

.1 second would give you about half point of dmg. Your cooldown would be fast, due to this you basically be making a laser machine gun. Might be fun but would require lots of face time and you would die faster.

What I would worry about more is very long duration(30 seconds). With long cooldown(minutes) There would have to be some limit.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 27 February 2016 - 02:12 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

FFS man.

No.

Perhaps "some" of the Clan lasers could use a duration buff but not at the levels you're advocating for plus heat bonuses. Do the math before posting.

[Andi Nagasia]

sycocys, on 27 February 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

No.

All clan mech should get full power then have their controls replaced by the system they use in drunk driving simulators.

when Clan Lasers where Introduced they had their Heat increased my +1 to be Different,
this has lead to Higher Alphas Long C-Laser Durations and IS having Huge Structure Buffs,
if they had gone with -1Damage instead than i think we would have a more Balanced game,
-
MWO Lasers,.................................Damage,...Heat,...CoolDown,...Duration,...DPS,...DPH,...
What we Got= C-ERML,.......................7.............6..........3.00,...........1.15.......1.69....1.17...
What IS had= ML,................................5.............4..........3.00,...........0.90.......1.28....1.25...
What we Should have Got=C-ERML,...6.............5..........3.50,...........1.00.......1.33....1.20...
You Choose whats More Balanced?(im Sorry C-ERML is OP, )

Sjorpha, on 27 February 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

No, the factions should be made more different, not less.

I'd rather do the opposite and increase damage, heat and duration. But I'm pretty fine with the current difference as well.

Whats the Point, we could have C-ER-ML doing 10 Damage over 2 seconds,
that does make them Diffrent, but it also isnt Balanced, as it also kills Clan Ranged Poking,

Zordicron, on 27 February 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

First of all, a clan ERML shares more stat wise to an IS LL then an IS ML by far.

It is better to think the clan ERML gives up a bit of range and dmg in exchange for saving 4 tons over the IS, then it is to compare the ERML to the IS ML which basically surpasses it in every way except duration.

Like all "clan vs IS" laser spreadsheet threads, you fail at looking at the larger picture and get hung up on "they both are named medium". NOTHING in your stats has anything to do with tonnage, which means it is incomplete at best and horribly skewed at worst.

Outside of that, Russ said in the town hall last night there are heat scale/ghost heat changes coming. Everything regarding weapon balance might as well get put in the fridge until that comes about.

Ghost Heat is for Handing Boating, and i feel Russ's Plan is more in line with Ghost Damage,
player does more than 35Damage in 1Sec, Add Heat to Next weapons Fired,

Monkey Lover, on 27 February 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

As long as the DPS HPS stays the same I would support allowing every player to select what ever duration they want.

I tried to Keep all Lasers DPS & DPH the same if not make them Closer to what IS has,

Monkey Lover, on 27 February 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

.1 second would give you about half point of dmg. Your cooldown would be fast, due to this you basically be making a laser machine gun. Might be fun but would require lots of face time and you would die faster.

What I would worry about more is very long duration(30 seconds). With long cooldown(minutes) There would have to be some limit.

Would Love Laser MGs, but like L-AMS i dont think Russ Likes, or was it he doesnt like LAM's,

Lukoi Banacek, on 27 February 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

FFS man.

No.

Perhaps "some" of the Clan lasers could use a duration buff but not at the levels you're advocating for plus heat bonuses. Do the math before posting.

Hey Boss, this isnt a Buff but more of a Side Grade, Lowering Clan Duration & Heat, but also Damage,
it still needs testing, but i feel this would bring the game Closer to where it needs to be,
ive Posted Stats, hopefully those Stats will Shed some Light on my Laser Thoughts,

[Livewyr]

I see that Ghost Heat was too convoluted, so we came up with the OP.


(Which, admittedly, I didn't read, I didn't make it past the title.)

[Ted Wayz]

If the lasers were not mounted to mechs, sure.

If you want to mount them to mechs...no.

[Y E O N N E]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 February 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

Thanks Yeonne aways a Pleasure

I do what I can.

Honestly, though, I have done tons of math to put lasers where I think they ought to be without making the two sides more or less behave identically, and I think the ballpark is correct, but posting that kind of stuff takes hours to do and ultimately turns into a fight over semantics and, frankly, I don't feel like expending that kind of time and effort these days. Besides, with the heat mechanic getting an overhaul and 'Mechs getting resized, it now seems kind of futile to discuss weapons at this time...

...unless we're discussing LB-X ACs. Those are going to suck even with a new heat-system heavily discouraging alphas, perhaps even more so than they do now depending on the implementation.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 February 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

when Clan Lasers where Introduced they had their Heat increased my +1 to be Different,
this has lead to Higher Alphas Long C-Laser Durations and IS having Huge Structure Buffs,
if they had gone with -1Damage instead than i think we would have a more Balanced game,
-
MWO Lasers,.................................Damage,...Heat,...CoolDown,...Duration,...DPS,...DPH,...
What we Got= C-ERML,.......................7.............6..........3.00,...........1.15.......1.69....1.17...
What IS had= ML,................................5.............4..........3.00,...........0.90.......1.28....1.25...
What we Should have Got=C-ERML,...6.............5..........3.50,...........1.00.......1.33....1.20...
You Choose whats More Balanced?(im Sorry C-ERML is OP, )


Whats the Point, we could have C-ER-ML doing 10 Damage over 2 seconds,
that does make them Diffrent, but it also isnt Balanced, as it also kills Clan Ranged Poking,


Ghost Heat is for Handing Boating, and i feel Russ's Plan is more in line with Ghost Damage,
player does more than 35Damage in 1Sec, Add Heat to Next weapons Fired,


I tried to Keep all Lasers DPS & DPH the same if not make them Closer to what IS has,


Would Love Laser MGs, but like L-AMS i dont think Russ Likes, or was it he doesnt like LAM's,


Hey Boss, this isnt a Buff but more of a Side Grade, Lowering Clan Duration & Heat, but also Damage,
it still needs testing, but i feel this would bring the game Closer to where it needs to be,
ive Posted Stats, hopefully those Stats will Shed some Light on my Laser Thoughts,

As others have noted, it's not a side-grade, it's an overall buff.

They just reduced quirks on IS, probably should let that play out before another wide-sweeping swath of changes universally to Clan weapons. Game is much closer in balance right now....what "problem" exists here that needs fixing?