45 replies to this topic

[SplashDown]

i alrdy know the state of the game..ITS BROKEN and after years of trial and error its STILL BROKEN...and if it lives 2 more years it will still be BROKEN =).............have a nice day =)

[Sader325]

DrxAbstract, on 28 February 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

And yet more than the first 30mins were spent discussing anything but CW... Including some Town Hall content (That wasnt much accurate), just saying. Take it or don't.

The first 30 minutes included Blue Duck introducing himself and then having his internet cut out, and us reading the Reddit cliffnotes on the town hall when it was given to me. After which Blue Duck chose to talk about game balance.

I said the discussion is PRIMARILY CW focused, by definition that means we can talk about whatever we want, and that tends to be at the discretion of the person we are interviewing.

[DrxAbstract]

Sader325, on 28 February 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

The first 30 minutes included Blue Duck introducing himself and then having his internet cut out, and us reading the Reddit cliffnotes on the town hall when it was given to me. After which Blue Duck chose to talk about game balance.

Well aware of this. Reiteration unnecessary.

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I said the discussion is PRIMARILY CW focused, by definition that means we can talk about whatever we want, and that tends to be at the discretion of the person we are interviewing.

By definition that means the MAJORITY thereof. While that doesn't preclude other topics, the majority was not CW oriented and portions of those discussions were based on inaccurate information largely in part to it being received second hand. I was giving a friendly critique but if you want to get defensive about it by all means.

[Sader325]

DrxAbstract, on 28 February 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

Well aware of this. Reiteration unnecessary.

You are using the first 30 minutes against us as if we made a mistake introducing our guest and dealing with his internet cutting out. You make the claim as if we were purposefully AVOIDING CW discussion when literally no discussion was being had by virtue of the fact that our guest wasn't actually there.

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By definition that means the MAJORITY thereof. While that doesn't preclude other topics, the majority was not CW oriented and portions of those discussions were based on inaccurate information largely in part to it being received second hand. I was giving a friendly critique but if you want to get defensive about it by all means.

"The Discussion" means our First, Second, Third, Fourth and now Fifth round table. It does not simply include this one interview, also please if you will point out the sections that were "based on inaccurate information received second hand".

See the thing is you aren't providing friendly critique, you're borderline creating falsehoods for reasons I don't quite understand.

[Tarogato]

That was actually a very good listen, thanks guys. But next time reschedule it if something big like a Townhall comes up. Just sayin'.

[Astrocanis]

ScarecrowES, on 28 February 2016 - 12:26 AM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "preferential treatment."

But large units have largely always been vilified by PGI, largely because - as we experience often - they are vilified by smaller units and solos.

They are villified for several reasons:

The perception that they are primarily interested in "pwning noobs" as a streaming MS player is fond of saying.

The fact that they rarely speak using in-game VOIP and, when they do, are often rude. They are the ambassadors of your unit and being douchebags in the public / group / CW queue does nothing to make up for the almost total lack of social tools in MWO.

The fact that a shift by even ONE of the big clans completely changes the face of CW. Big units are capable of taking planets on their own, but smaller units can only fight.

There are lots of reasons that big units are not beloved by the masses. I would challenge all of the larger units to name all of the members of their units without resorting to reading a list. Then, when you have successfully done that, tell us about them. You can't. Social is out the door at that point and being on top is all that's left.

[Sader325]

Astrocanis, on 28 February 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

They are villified for several reasons:

The perception that they are primarily interested in "pwning noobs" as a streaming MS player is fond of saying.

Which streamer? Don't just generalize. Because if you say me, I'm just going to laugh at you. Because honestly, can you name any other MS streamer that isn't me or FBJ?

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The fact that they rarely speak using in-game VOIP and, when they do, are often rude. They are the ambassadors of your unit and being douchebags in the public / group / CW queue does nothing to make up for the almost total lack of social tools in MWO.

Once again making vague generalizations that he can neither prove or disprove.

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The fact that a shift by even ONE of the big clans completely changes the face of CW. Big units are capable of taking planets on their own, but smaller units can only fight.

There are lots of reasons that big units are not beloved by the masses. I would challenge all of the larger units to name all of the members of their units without resorting to reading a list. Then, when you have successfully done that, tell us about them. You can't. Social is out the door at that point and being on top is all that's left.

And here we have the crux of your really issue.

Let me enlighten you to the STRUCTURE of mercstar: MS is NOT one unit we are Ten Units.

Those units are as follows: SWK, SLR, OU, GEMC, ISEN, 77th, TFF, MRDR-14, INTR, SiG.

Every unit within MercStar has our own rules, our own subculture, our own group of players, however we are all ALLIED under one name. That name is -MS-. The game mode is called COMMUNITY WARFARE, if you are not able or willing to create your own community, than go play something else and stop being upset that we managed to organize ourselves.

So no, I cannot name every single person in mercstar, but I do no a major portion of my own unit which is SWK (Swords of Kentares). Just like you can't name a single person out of your own unit, assuming you even have one.

Your problem? Your problem is that we decided to organize, and you're apparently incapable or unwilling to do the same.

Edited by Sader325, 28 February 2016 - 08:43 AM.

[Astrocanis]

Sader325, on 28 February 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

Which streamer? Don't just generalize. Because if you say me, I'm just going to laugh at you. Because honestly, can you name any other MS streamer that isn't me or FBJ?





Once again making vague generalizations that he can neither prove or disprove.



And here we have the crux of your really issue.

Let me enlighten you to the STRUCTURE of mercstar: MS is NOT one unit we are Ten Units.

Those units are as follows: SWK, SLR, OU, GEMC, ISEN, 77th, GEMC, MRDR-14, INTR, SiG.

Every unit within MercStar has our own rules, our own subculture, our own group of players, however we are all ALLIED under one name. That name is -MS-. The game mode is called COMMUNITY WARFARE, if you are not able or willing to create your own community, than go play something else and stop being upset that we managed to organize ourselves.

So no, I cannot name every single person in mercstar, but I do no a major portion of my own unit which is SWK (Swords of Kentares). Just like you can't name a single person out of your own unit, assuming you even have one.

Your problem? Your problem is that we decided to organize, and you're apparently incapable or unwilling to do the same.

You see what I'm talking about. I couldn't have said it better myself. Why do you think I un-followed you, by the way?

[Sader325]

Astrocanis, on 28 February 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

You see what I'm talking about. I couldn't have said it better myself. Why do you think I un-followed you, by the way?

OH GOD I'VE BEEN UNFOLLOWED.

*EDIT*

Btw, as I say in my stream: Once you've hit the follow button that stain on your soul lasts Forever

Edited by Sader325, 28 February 2016 - 08:43 AM.

[Karen Supreme]

King Alen, on 28 February 2016 - 12:04 AM, said:

So no reason to watch this then, thanks for the heads up.

No reason to post this if you are not interest in.

just go away.

[Karen Supreme]

King Alen, on 28 February 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

I have an interest, I was thanking the poster for saving me the time to watch that video.

u have an interest in what? the video but u don't want to watch it?
Or have u to inform in this thread that u have other interest but not the video?

Still I don't understand why some people feels the need to post "I'm not going to watch it" in a thread posting a video.

[DrxAbstract]

Sader325, on 28 February 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

You are using the first 30 minutes against us as if we made a mistake introducing our guest and dealing with his internet cutting out. You make the claim as if we were purposefully AVOIDING CW discussion when literally no discussion was being had by virtue of the fact that our guest wasn't actually there.

I used nothing 'against you'. I cited an example supporting my opinion in my original post that you got defensive about as if it was some ridiculously outlandish statement and have remained fixated upon ever since. I never once mentioned the issues you were having at the beginning nor have I in any way implied you were intentionally avoiding topics - That's something you tacked on after going full-on defensive mode and started jumping to conclusions. I pointed out my issues with the broadcast as a whole and you came swooping in with a look of incredulity and called me a liar.

Since you seem to be hellbent on disproving anything I say go watch your own broadcast over again after actually watching the town hall and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about, instead of relying on 'cliff notes' which caused the problem to begin with.

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See the thing is you aren't providing friendly critique, you're borderline creating falsehoods for reasons I don't quite understand.

I've been quite friendly this whole time, Mister Defensive. You're not understanding it because you're clearly more concerned with defending yourself from imaginary attacks rather than listening.

[ScarecrowES]

A point was brought up in the topic here, and it was discussed several times too in the roundtable, that MWO lacks proper social and unit tools. I think this is a primary crux with many of the ills that face the player experience in CW (aside from gameplay issues themselves). By virtue of the nature of CW, there really shouldn't be "solo" players in that game mode. The entire mode is fundamentally designed around unit play. Solo players have and will continue to suffer. Rather than leave unaffiliated players to the wolves (so to speak, and no pun intended), we should be encouraging them to align themselves within factions to units, even provisionally. Hence the suggestion I made about forcing a faction choice and encouraging unit sponsorship, even for "solo" players.

Hell, even if PGI were to create a sort of "default" or official starter unit for each faction that new players could be dumped into... this is something that would give ordinarily unaffiliated players access to an instant social network of allied players, including, perhaps veterans with which they could group up and drop with. They'd have instant access to a faction and unit chat channel where they could seek advice, interact socially, and learn the ins-and-outs of group play without having to commit to the rigors of operating within a separate formalized unit.

Imagine, then, how much easier it would be for new players to get into the game and be encouraged to stay. Or for players who want to play CW as part of a group of semi-organized players but don't want to go through the hassle of unit membership to just jump into faction play, send a message out into faction/unit chat that they're looking to set up or join a pick-up group, and go into a match as a 12-man of puggles. Maybe these folks find people they actually like playing with and decide to form their own units.

Regardless, we shouldn't be vilifying units... especially the large units which form the backbone of the game, and CW especially. We really should be pushing units and expanding the social and group tools of the game.

As for large units avoiding in-game VoIP... I'd say this is true to some extent, but not entirely. I can tell you from my experience within SWOL over the last... I dunno, year or more... when we run large groups, we'll largely communicate through TS. This has more to do with the limitations of the in-game chat functions to only work when groups are in a match. There is currently no provision for voice chat between grouped players outside of a match. When we're playing as smaller groups in mixed matches in CW, we're on TS yes, but at least some of our members are set up to communicate via in-game VoIP, and we'll obviously use game-text to coordinate with the other groups and pugs we're matched with. I can tell you I'm often the guy trying to run 2 different push-to-talk buttons while also fighting through to an O-gen, trying to communicate strategy and calls from our TS server to our in-game VoIP and back. It's not fun, I assure you.

I'd say our experience is much the opposite when it comes to in-game VoIP... such that the individuals and groups we're often paired with refuse to use in-game communication tools to organize with the rest of the team. I can't count the times where SWOL members have dropped in small groups (lance-level or lower) and have actively tried to communicate with the other members in our drop group only to be rebuffed. Hell, SWOL has gone so far as to expand our own TS server (at great cost) to allow enough space to give all of Wolf's online players a place to organize and communicate, just to get around the limitations of the game's social and organizational deficiencies. At this point, we've taken upon ourselves to provide something that PGI hasn't been able to implement. Any Wolf is welcome and encouraged to log in and get talking.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Thanks for having me to your roundtable guys. I very much enjoyed the discussion. Also, thank you for streaming and casting our match set again AIM.

[ScarecrowES]

Blueduck, on 28 February 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

Thanks for having me to your roundtable guys. I very much enjoyed the discussion. Also, thank you for streaming and casting our match set again AIM.

I had to wait to watch the stream until after it was put up (I elected to sit through all 4+ hours of the town hall). Well represented Blue. Lots of good points made.

[Xavier]

Cappy, on 28 February 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

When your entire clan was allowed to change factions with no penalty? I've never once seen PGI "vilify" units. I've seen pugs vilify them. And smaller units vilify them. Usually for good reason. Merc units shouldn't be dominating faction warfare by virtue of being the largest and thereby the most influential. But I'm assuming that's not a topic you ever bother discussing because that would mean change by -MS-.

large units have often been criticized by PGI as having an imbalancing affect on CW and have constant had negative comments thrown our way in regards to this. so yes they have been vilified.

also by the way....something you did not know about that whole switching thing....russ wanted the larger units to go clan so that he could show the game wasnt as imbalanced as the map made it seem....we were in the middle of an IS rotation and it would have cost us 200,000,000 cbills to cancel out our contract.....so we asked for a favor from russ to help achieve the goal that he wanted done.....why should we have had to pay to prove russ's point???? we were doing a favor for russ....he never had to give us the free pass but he did it so that we could help him prove a point! side note: we haven't left SJ since that switch

[Xavier]

DrxAbstract, on 28 February 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

Instead of hosting your analytical discussion during the town hall (In case the times happen to overlap in the future), postpone, watch the town hall yourselves and then discuss what came out of it so half the opinions and comments shared are informed ones, because a lot of them ranged from mildly to way off what was actually said during the town hall and that's from getting your information second hand.

I listened to the town hall after the fact and a grand total of 5 minutes was spent on anything relevant to CW because the previous town hall had already addressed it....in this case there would not have been much value add for us to watch the town hall. so I respectfully disagree with you sir and we did it so that there was an alternative to those who did not want to watch the town hall.

[Xavier]

Davers, on 28 February 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

I am not blaming MS or insulting MS. In fact on the few occasions I have spoken to Antonious Rex and other MS leadership I found them to be quite friendly. Is merely asking the question if one unit (regardless of who they are or what faction they play for) being so large and influential that their actions dictate whether or not CW is playable so wrong?

If my entire unit was to log in we would be over 1200 strong. So stop it with the 'you hate big units' talk. I actually agree with what Xavier said. I do feel that the natural progression for a game like this should be for solo players to transition to unit play. But I also think CW is so heavily unit biased (as it flat out states it is) that solo players should be excluded from it. And everyone knows this- small units get massive tonnage advantages over 12 man units in Group Queue to 'make it fair' but there is no such mechanism in CW.

Since your entire contribution to this thread has been personal attacks I feel no need to continue this threadcrapping discussion. Have a good day.

I agree with your assessment about us moving but we did so for the good of the game because CW was dieing fast at the time that we switched........I think the fact that we had to switch is as you said point enough that the mode itself is broken to a degree. Thats why we are having these discussion because we are tired of seeing easy simple fixes be neglected. If unit input was taken while designing CW I think this game would be much more viable than it is right now.

[DrxAbstract]

Xavier, on 28 February 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

I listened to the town hall after the fact and a grand total of 5 minutes was spent on anything relevant to CW because the previous town hall had already addressed it....in this case there would not have been much value add for us to watch the town hall. so I respectfully disagree with you sir and we did it so that there was an alternative to those who did not want to watch the town hall.

My concerns were not from CW content (I was poking fun at the fact you call it CW Roundtable and werent discussing CW), but the March patch and general TH discussions you guys were getting second hand info on that, quite frankly, wasnt right. Which lead to wasted time and speculations.

[Xavier]

Tarogato, on 28 February 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

That was actually a very good listen, thanks guys. But next time reschedule it if something big like a Townhall comes up. Just sayin'.

part of the other reason we didnt reschedule was we actually casted the SWOL vs AIM charity match before the roundtable discussion. and we thought it a very nice progression to bring blueduck in right after the games were over. since the match was not going to be rescheduled neither were we going to reschedule the roundtable.....thats why we record and post that so that after the fact people can choose or not choose to listen to it. yes the confilct was not optimal but we will not allow any further conflicts to change our plans because we would always be changing plans at that rate. there are alot of units to get around an interview!!!