38 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

[MechWarrior5152251]

I refuse to play my fat dwarf Nova until the rescale.

[Tennex]

MechWarrior5152251, on 28 February 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

I refuse to play my fat dwarf Nova until the rescale.

inb4 omg OP

[Fox With A Shotgun]

That looks more or less the same size as a Kit Fox or an Adder. Still the same gorilla arms as before, though, so...yeah. Won't be hard to disarm it, but will be an improvement nonetheless.

Edit: Is it just me or are the legs slightly squatter? If so, it probably got a bit longer on the front-back axis.

Edited by Fox With A Shotgun, 28 February 2016 - 06:48 PM.

[Ultimax]

I'm waiting to see what they do with the rest of the mechs, but hopefully it won't actually be smaller than a Hunchback when everything is done - because that would be dumb.

[cazidin]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 28 February 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

That looks more or less the same size as a Kit Fox or an Adder. Still the same gorilla arms as before, though, so...yeah. Won't be hard to disarm it, but will be an improvement nonetheless.

Edit: Is it just me or are the legs slightly squatter? If so, it probably got a bit longer on the front-back axis.

It isn't just you, I see it too but we'll definitely see when this mech is resized.

Ultimax, on 28 February 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

I'm waiting to see what they do with the rest of the mechs, but hopefully it won't actually be smaller than a Hunchback when everything is done - because that would be dumb.

TBH, i'm concerned about what they'll do to the Marauder or the Black Knight. They fall a bit short of the 75 ton average according to that scale. If they enlarge the arms of the latter it could become tankier though...

[Gamuray]

So, overall smaller, so good since the weapons are TECHNICALLY closer to cockpit. But hitboxes seem about the same. With good aim, the thing shouldn't be any tankier WHATSOEVER. Just a bit better at poking and MAYBE harder to hit with projectiles.

[Tennex]

Ultimax, on 28 February 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

I'm waiting to see what they do with the rest of the mechs, but hopefully it won't actually be smaller than a Hunchback when everything is done - because that would be dumb.

Its already shorter than the hunchback though. But volume wise it should be about the same as hunchy, so it'd have to be shorter.

I think PGI has done a pretty good job with the rescale. Definately wont be smaller than the crab

Edited by Tennex, 28 February 2016 - 08:35 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

wait.... what nova as 3AMS? Or is that just a mix of the -S and -A?

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

MoonUnitBeta, on 28 February 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

wait.... what nova as 3AMS? Or is that just a mix of the -S and -A?

Just an S CT with A sides.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Tennex, on 28 February 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

Its already shorter than the hunchback though. But volume wise it should be about the same as hunchy, so it'd have to be shorter.

I think PGI has done a pretty good job with the rescale. Definately wont be smaller than the crab

Yep. I'm happy they're doing it volume based, rather than, "Hey Russ, look what I put for the mech size. Did Charlie see it? Hey Charlie, look what I put for the mech size. I did it as a joke but the patch already went out and I don't know what to do."
"Eh, just leave it I guess. It -is- a clan mech after all."

I'm kind of curious what mass they set for per sq. meter, and where that number came from? But I feel like that could open up a whole new can of worms

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 28 February 2016 - 09:02 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

MoonUnitBeta, on 28 February 2016 - 09:00 PM, said:

Yep. I'm happy they're doing it volume based, rather than, "Hey Russ, look what I put for the mech size. Did Charlie see it? Hey Charlie, look what I put for the mech size. I did it as a joke but the patch already went out and I don't know what to do."
"Eh, just leave it I guess. It -is- a clan mech after all."

I'm kind of curious what mass they set for per sq. meter, and where that number came from? But I feel like that could open up a whole new can of worms

I feel like it should be based more on a "it feels the right size" when comparing two mechs.

If we tried to base it on reality, we'd be in a bucket of worms. Just look at the M4A3E8 "Easy 8" compared to a Tiger I.

Easy 8:
-6.25m long
-3.00m wide
-2.97m tall
-33.7 metric tons (loaded)
-turret armor F/S/R: 76mm/50mm/64mm (often with an extra 38mm plate added as turret 'cheeks' and a 50mm mantlet)
-hull armor F/S/R: 76mm/45mm/38mm

Tiger I:
-6.32m long
-3.56m wide
-3.00m tall
-55.5 metric tonnes (loaded)
-turret armor F/S/R: 100mm/80mm/80mm w/120mm mantlet
-hull armor F/S/R: 100mm/60mm/40mm

The tanks are pretty close to the same size, but are drastically different in weight. With the Tiger being considered an "Atlas" of sorts while the Sherman is more comparable to a "Catapult"

EDIT:

Fun Fact: The angling of the armor on an Easy Eight of 47 degrees meant it's cross section was closer to 120mm thick of vertical steel performance. Meaning it's easier to penetrate the hull of Tiger Tank than an Easy Eight Sherman from the front.

Edited by Saint Scarlett Johan, 28 February 2016 - 10:23 PM.

[Ultimax]

Tennex, on 28 February 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

Its already shorter than the hunchback though. But volume wise it should be about the same as hunchy, so it'd have to be shorter.

I didn't say "shorter" I said "smaller".

The Nova should not end up smaller than the Hunchback (or have significantly smaller STs) - if that means the Hunchback is also scaled down to compensate, then that's fine.

Edited by Ultimax, 28 February 2016 - 10:37 PM.

[1453 R]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 28 February 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

I feel like it should be based more on a "it feels the right size" when comparing two mechs.

Realize: the "this feels right" system is what the modelers have been using thus far. It's what resulted in a Nova that required an 18% global rescale, which has to be something like a 40 to 50% or greater reduction in actual volume. I don't know the math, but dayum.

I do prefer the notion of there being some science behind 'Mech scaling from here on. Maybe they can tweak it when the formulas don't come out exactly right, but having that mathematically derived baseline should help avoid things like 85-ton Novas in the future.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

1453 R, on 28 February 2016 - 10:37 PM, said:

Realize: the "this feels right" system is what the modelers have been using thus far. It's what resulted in a Nova that required an 18% global rescale, which has to be something like a 40 to 50% or greater reduction in actual volume. I don't know the math, but dayum.

I do prefer the notion of there being some science behind 'Mech scaling from here on. Maybe they can tweak it when the formulas don't come out exactly right, but having that mathematically derived baseline should help avoid things like 85-ton Novas in the future.

I can understand a baseline approach, but even the "this feels right" approach should have told them that the Nova was off.

Clan Wave 1 was obviously rushed, which is how we got the Nova and Kit Fox being egregiously over scaled and the Kit Fox, Adder, and Stormcrow having incomplete animations.

[1453 R]

So yeah. Super quick and dirty, and probably an oversimplification, but that 18% global scaledown looks to be the very next best thing to a 45% reduction in overall mass (82^3 / 100^3 = ~44.8% reduction). If it looks half the size it used to be to you, that's because it pretty much is.

Go Nova. Here's hoping and a half on that Catapult redux, eh?

Edited by 1453 R, 28 February 2016 - 11:53 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Well, it looks good so far because it looks more like a medium now, and also stays as sexy as before.
But 2 thinsg that the "global rescale" did

broke the lore of SCR and NVA using he same legs.
broke the Pilot/mech scale, so NVA warriors must be a special midget breed genetic engineering of the clanners.

Unfortunately it still does not change the basic issues of the NVA:

1. Omnipresent CT. It is smaller now, yet still hitable form all angles. Which means good palyers will kill it as easy as before. The only advantage is vs some midskilled palyers who have a bit inaccurate aim and sprqad it now more than before.

2.Arm2Cockpit ratio. is still a lot, meaning exposing a lot when trying to shoot stuff. Surely less than before but still a lot compared to other mechs.

3.fixed DHS and JJ's still make it a not viable choice for any ballistic builds, so it will stay a forced energy boat. But this is of course nothing related to rescale.

Adds even some new issues, shooting over an obstacle/building. Since the arms are now less above the ground some obstacles will be harder to shot over, or een impossible. while all mechs with high hardpoints still will be able to shoot it.


in the end it will still be as much as it was before by usability amongst good players with a possible buff for mid skill gameplay. With the SPL boating being the only amazing (but boring niche) facehugger build.


perosnally, I am happy with it since it does visually not ruin the NVA. it was just 2sexy2change.

Edited by Lily from animove, 29 February 2016 - 02:55 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

I am sure the kit fox will shrink a good 20%.

[Lily from animove]

MechWarrior5152251, on 29 February 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

I am sure the kit fox will shrink a good 20%.

I hope they don't shrink the adder, that will make it get troubles shooting over some obstacles with the pretty good ST hardpoints. Also you would need a magnifying glass to still see your own mech in the mechlab.

Edited by Lily from animove, 29 February 2016 - 03:59 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yeah, that looks about right IMO. Good rescale.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 29 February 2016 - 03:20 AM.