66 replies to this topic

[wamX]

So we really need some new tech, new weapons, new SOMETHING.

With the recent (sort of) release of Polar Rainlands, there is only one build being absolutely abused. And with the Archer coming out, it wont get much better.

The smart-nob will say "Lrn 2 ply" or "get bettr covr" because they're idiots that don't understand the nature of the problem.

I come from a gaming community that HATES the use of LRMs, the use of direct fire is how we fight. That's beside the point.

In fact, I'm all in favor of those who fight with LRMs. They serve a purpose. They might need tweaking on the development side, but again. Beside the point.

You are standing in the middle of open snow getting viciously ripped apart by 300 LRMS fired by every enemy mech. Even with AMS you shave like...3 - 6 missiles off of the volleys and still get overwhelmed anyway, dying in a few seconds to the other 297 - 294 missiles.

Can we get LAMS? More effective of removing missiles but generates heat?

More than 1 AMS hardpoint on mechs? its a trade-off between doing damage and reducing damage taken.

The nature of the problem is that we have weapons that dont have a good set of defensive measures other than the obvious get behind a building, hope your enemy misses, or hope your AMS kills off the LRM5...but nothing else.

Devs, can we see more armor variants? I remember in MW4 you can choose between Standard, Ferro Fibrous, Reflective, and (the name I forget) that was better suited for ballistics.

Standard - Standard armor
Ferro Fibrous - Slightly better armor
Reflective - Standard armor but reduced damage recieved against energy weapon, chance to deflect the beam
Hardened Ballistics armor? - Standard armor but reduced damage against ballistics, chance to absorb the shell (smaller caliber weapons have better chance to be absorbed)

AMS - Standard AMS
(even with overloaded AMS...doesnt save from the missile death apocalypse)
LAMS - Laser AMS, does much better job of removing missiles, can be disrupted by PPC to open a pocket of time for LRM rain. LAMS has no ammo but generates 1% of heat per second.

These are some of the basics, but piloting alone shouldn't be the only defense we have... otherwise... problematic...

[SkaerKrow]

Get yourself some ECM mechs? Ask the ECM mechs to hang out near your firing line before you drop in order to counter locks? Stop expecting people to play how you want to just because? That's basically how the Clans lost, after all.

[Tyler Valentine]

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

You are standing in the middle of open snow getting viciously ripped apart by 300 LRMS fired by every enemy mech....

You're doing it wrong.

[Mystere]

What's this obsession with more tech (and more Mechs)?

What MWO desperately needs are more compelling game modes, maps, and game play ... not more PokeMechs and associated equipment.

[Chuck Jager]

MWO biggest issue is trying to balance all of the tech from lore and TT. This can work in fiction and a 1v1 TT scenario, but not in an online game.

There is a reason many games have mirror factions and limited builds and even those have to be redone and simplified over time.

More stuff == More balance issues

[4rcs1ne]

1. If you're having trouble with lrm's , consider buying radar deprivation. It would help you tremendously.

2. Why should we add more tech, when PGI can't even balance the current tech we have?

[GRiPSViGiL]

Mystere, on 29 February 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

What's this obsession with more tech (and more Mechs)?

What MWO desperately needs are more compelling game modes, maps, and game play ... not more PokeMechs and associated equipment.

How many mechs is it gonna it take for this derphole community to want some actual depth in gameplay?

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 29 February 2016 - 12:30 PM.

[KaitRaven]

LRMs are not the problem.

[dario03]

Mystere, on 29 February 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

What's this obsession with more tech (and more Mechs)?

What MWO desperately needs are more compelling game modes, maps, and game play ... not more PokeMechs and associated equipment.

What?
We are getting a new game mode, changes to capping in current game modes, bases in assault, and new maps. We haven't seen new weapons since the clans and besides masc we haven't seen any new equipment either. Pokemechs might apply, but there really isn't a gotta collect them all for weapons and equipment.
Besides new weapons and equipment could have a big affect on game play.

[Pjwned]

I wouldn't mind seeing some new tech like L-AMS, but I have to point out...

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

You are standing in the middle of open snow getting viciously ripped apart by 300 LRMS fired by every enemy mech. Even with AMS you shave like...3 - 6 missiles off of the volleys and still get overwhelmed anyway, dying in a few seconds to the other 297 - 294 missiles.

If this is happening to you then you are doing something wrong no matter what the map is.

Quote

More than 1 AMS hardpoint on mechs? its a trade-off between doing damage and reducing damage taken.

There are already mechs with more than 1 AMS hardpoint.

Quote

The nature of the problem is that we have weapons that dont have a good set of defensive measures other than the obvious get behind a building, hope your enemy misses, or hope your AMS kills off the LRM5...but nothing else.

That's more than enough of a defensive measure, and if you don't use it then no wonder you die to 300 missiles raining on you.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

dario03, on 29 February 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

Besides new weapons and equipment could have a big affect on game play.

Not to mention help out hardpoint starved mechs, a number of mechs really wish Heavy PPCs, Heavy Large Lasers, MRMs, Heavy Gauss Rifles, and the Binary Laser Cannon were an actual thing.

I wouldn't be against more options for building, especially with regards to missiles so missile mechs aren't so restricted in options.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 February 2016 - 01:19 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

New game modes, more layers of Community Warfare, PVE, campaign mode, yes. We need more stuff like that.

New weapons will do very little to breathe new life in this game. It'll still be essentially the same game.

[LordNothing]

im always for new tech. there are several 3053 weapons we could have now. i will spare you the list that has been repeated ad nauseum here but il leave it to your imagination and ability to look things up on sarna. holding up on those because there are 6 or so weapons that are op/crap is stupid. if pgi had the will to do so they could dial in the damages on those weapons in an afternoon. or they could set up a fast iteration test server that gets daily balance tweaks to see where things settle. you also dont have to flood the game with new weapons like during the clan invasion. bring in one every patch (alternate clan and is to be fair, or do one each) as part of a gift store varient or with an mc purchase. you could bring in some revenue, and give people new ways to play the game.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 February 2016 - 01:22 PM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

I come from a gaming community that HATES the use of LRMs, the use of direct fire is how we fight. That's beside the point.

Actually this is entirely your point.

We get it. You hate LRMs. You're to lazy to defend yourself against them properly. You're mad you can die to LRMs.

We get it.

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

You are standing in the middle of open snow getting viciously ripped apart by 300 LRMS fired by every enemy mech. Even with AMS you shave like...3 - 6 missiles off of the volleys and still get overwhelmed anyway, dying in a few seconds to the other 297 - 294 missiles.

Sure ONE AMS completely negates 5 missles.
How about two?
Better yet, what if everyone actually brought one?
How about 12?

Oh yeah and let's ignore ecm, and that pesky thing called just shooting the LRM boat.

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

Devs, can we see more armor variants? I remember in MW4 you can choose between Standard, Ferro Fibrous, Reflective, and (the name I forget) that was better suited for ballistics.

Standard - Standard armor
Ferro Fibrous - Slightly better armor
Reflective - Standard armor but reduced damage recieved against energy weapon, chance to deflect the beam
Hardened Ballistics armor? - Standard armor but reduced damage against ballistics, chance to absorb the shell (smaller caliber weapons have better chance to be absorbed)

You're completely right about the armors though, if LRMs are allowed to be completely hard countered and THEN also have their damage reduced by things completely out of their hands...

Then their needs to be ways to do the same for the other weapons as well.

Edit: Then again, after a whole 4 seconds of thinking.... you'd just get an ecm mech fitted with laser armor.... that could only take damage from a ballistics weapon.

And that would be moronic.

It's almost like having hard counters is a terrible design decision.

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

AMS - Standard AMS
(even with overloaded AMS...doesnt save from the missile death apocalypse)
LAMS - Laser AMS, does much better job of removing missiles, can be disrupted by PPC to open a pocket of time for LRM rain. LAMS has no ammo but generates 1% of heat per second.

Ams doesn't save you? Then you're just terrible..... or expecting a single AMS to completely negate 5 other actual players weapons. Which would be astonishingly stupid.

LAMS - Sure, give it heat, duration, and cool down just like the appropriate laser for it's range and why not.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 29 February 2016 - 01:35 PM.

[Gamuray]

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

So we really need some new tech, new weapons, new SOMETHING.

With the recent (sort of) release of Polar Rainlands, there is only one build being absolutely abused. And with the Archer coming out, it wont get much better.

I can assure you, as someone who plays about every style of mech, that EVEN on Polar Highlands, lrm's are only OP against a dumb enemy. AKA: The enemy that stands in the open and stares down the missiles. EVERYWHERE around, but not in, the middle of Polar has sufficient cover to do brawling/pokage.

In terms of new/equip. How about you hold off on that until we actually have now figured out. I can assure you that new weapons/equip will not add NEARLY as much to gameplay as you think. Only mrm's or long toms would add ANYTHING AT ALL to our gameplay. So let the game get shenaniganed into a good state first, THEN you can mess it all up again if you'd like.

Sir.


ps. I will agree that lrm's need some tweaking, but only to make them less feast/famine. I think if you have no lock, they should just shoot straight, kinda like mrm's. (But when those sweet, sweet, mech obliterating machines show up, they would obviously be the faster projectiles to dumb-firing lrms).

pss. Are you SUURREE that your lrm-hating community background really is BESIDE the point, when you are discussing that very weapon for half of your thread? Because I'm fairly certain that would make the tidbit of info quite TO the point.

[dario03]

Alistair Winter, on 29 February 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

New game modes, more layers of Community Warfare, PVE, campaign mode, yes. We need more stuff like that.

New weapons will do very little to breathe new life in this game. It'll still be essentially the same game.

The more that gets added the better. The thing is everything you listed is coming, some of them in a couple of months (PVE campaign being a ways out). But we haven't heard anything about new equipment or weapons coming anytime soon. Actually in the last town hall Russ was talking about not adding things and that needs to change.

[Mystere]

dario03, on 29 February 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

What?
We are getting a new game mode, changes to capping in current game modes, bases in assault, and new maps. We haven't seen new weapons since the clans and besides masc we haven't seen any new equipment either. Pokemechs might apply, but there really isn't a gotta collect them all for weapons and equipment.
Besides new weapons and equipment could have a big affect on game play.

That's one new game mode for how long?
How is CW doing? Is it going to be just Invasion and Counterattack for a long time?

As various threads have spelled out, the game is getting boring, because it's the same tired game modes and not because of a dearth of Mechs and equipment.

[Mystere]

GRiPSViGiL, on 29 February 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

How many mechs is it gonna it take for this derphole community to want some actual depth in gameplay?

Depth? Who wants depth? We want and demand more PokeMechs!!!

[dario03]

Mystere, on 29 February 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

That's one new game mode for how long?
How is CW doing? Is it going to be just Invasion and Counterattack for a long time?

As various threads have spelled out, the game is getting boring, because it's the same tired game modes and not because of a dearth of Mechs and equipment.

Two new game modes (unless they dropped the 4v4 scout mode), a big change to 2 others, and a small change too. How long has it been since we got new weapons?
CW is getting some changes soon and like I said unless they dropped 4v4 it won't just be Invasion and Counterattack. Its also getting a bunch of changes outside of the drops.

Various threads have spelled out that people want more of everything. The only thing that some don't want is more mechs but I'm sure if they released a favorite mech of those people, plenty of them would buy it. So the game is getting boring because we play the same game modes AND the same equipment and weapons that are just in different arrangements on the pokemechs.
The issue of game modes is getting at least some improvements. The issue of weapons and equipment is not, so that is what needs addressed.

[Coolant]

So OP are you bored, or complaining about LRM's? Your title and post say two different things. I agree that the game needs more weapons, game modes, maps etc. Team Destruction does get stale. However, I do not agree with you about LRM's. There is enough cover on every map, as well as plenty of counters like ECM and AMS to balance missiles - even on Polar Highlands, which, by the way, is only the 3rd highest voted map per Russ. Could it be that you are exposing yourself too much?