66 replies to this topic

[ScarecrowES]

*Tries to understand how anyone in the current state of MWO can have difficulty completely negating LRMs.*

*Sees a Tier 4 skill listing at less than 30 forum posts.*

*Totally gets it now.*

[Exilyth]

It's kind of funny how people ask for tech from after 3050 when we don't even have pre 3025 stuff like mech mortars and rifles.

[Mcgral18]

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

So we really need some new tech, new weapons, new SOMETHING.

Wouldn't it be better if...perhaps most of the options weren't terrible?

Weapon wise, there are a select few which are superior to others. Outright.


Such as LRMs...they are the 3rd worst weapon system. Hell, I'd bump them to second, now that Flamers aren't completely worthless!

Machine Guns are the step below that.


If PPCs were able to be effective (not mediocre) Mid or Long range weapons, they'd have a niche over ERLLs and LPLs.
If AC2s were Lulzworthy weapons...they might do something.
If ACs in general had higher velocities, they'd potentially out-trade Lasers at mid range (and be much cooler at short range), but fail at longer range.


As it stands? Lasers (of their given niche) dominate that niche. SRMs VS SPLs may be the closest contender...but I'd take cSPLs for the better hitreg and guaranteed damage.

[Xmith]

Op, the third choice of armor in MW4 was Reactive armor, primarily use against ballistics like you mentioned.

[Sable]

Has this fool wamx ever thought that maybe his failure to adapt and solo mentality is contributing to his frustration with the gameplay? Sure 1 ams doesn't do much to the LRM swarms he dies too, but you know what does do a lot? more than 1 ams. He said he plays with a group of friends, well if they all had AMS than the protection from LRMs grows exponentially. I've run games as support with double ams black knight, battlemaster, vindicator and thunderbolt. I've even the tripple ams kitfox or novas. I've seen CW matches with multiple people working together where no LRMs can ever get through. 5 total AMS is enough to take out every single missile. So instead of whining about how broken LRMs are and how you only prefer direct fire than maybe you just deserve to get killed over and over again until you try something new. I don't have AMS in every build but i try to get it in more of them now. I know a lot of people say to run derp module but i don't even buy those anymore. The times i really need them are few and far between. I'm sorry if not everyone plays the game the way you prefer to play it but beating you with a weapon system you don't while you refuse to take precaustions against it is your own fault. It's like in CoD modern warfare when everyone would get pissed when someone used a grenade launcher for kills. It's a perfectly legitimate way to get a kill but of course it wasn't "your preferred way". Get over yourself.

[InspectorG]

Chuck Jager, on 29 February 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

More stuff == More balance issues

Ah...
I sense a high school math grad!

Surprised at how many just dont math well enough to see exponential problems of adding more junk.

[Wolfways]

Mystere, on 29 February 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

What's this obsession with more tech (and more Mechs)?

What MWO desperately needs are more compelling game modes, maps, and game play ... not more PokeMechs and associated equipment.

The OP doesn't really want more new tech. He just wants something to make LRM's even more useless because he and his friends hate LRM's...and presumably can't/won't learn how to avoid them.

Every time I see a complaint about LRM's on Polar I think about how, like the other maps, Polar is nothing but cover and if I die because of LRM's (happened once I think) it is because I screwed up and wandered about in the open because I got tunnel vision when chasing a target.

[Damia Savon]

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

So we really need some new tech, new weapons, new SOMETHING.

With the recent (sort of) release of Polar Rainlands, there is only one build being absolutely abused. And with the Archer coming out, it wont get much better.

The smart-nob will say "Lrn 2 ply" or "get bettr covr" because they're idiots that don't understand the nature of the problem.

I come from a gaming community that HATES the use of LRMs, the use of direct fire is how we fight. That's beside the point.

In fact, I'm all in favor of those who fight with LRMs. They serve a purpose. They might need tweaking on the development side, but again. Beside the point.

You are standing in the middle of open snow getting viciously ripped apart by 300 LRMS fired by every enemy mech. Even with AMS you shave like...3 - 6 missiles off of the volleys and still get overwhelmed anyway, dying in a few seconds to the other 297 - 294 missiles.

Can we get LAMS? More effective of removing missiles but generates heat?

More than 1 AMS hardpoint on mechs? its a trade-off between doing damage and reducing damage taken.

The nature of the problem is that we have weapons that dont have a good set of defensive measures other than the obvious get behind a building, hope your enemy misses, or hope your AMS kills off the LRM5...but nothing else.

Devs, can we see more armor variants? I remember in MW4 you can choose between Standard, Ferro Fibrous, Reflective, and (the name I forget) that was better suited for ballistics.

Standard - Standard armor
Ferro Fibrous - Slightly better armor
Reflective - Standard armor but reduced damage recieved against energy weapon, chance to deflect the beam
Hardened Ballistics armor? - Standard armor but reduced damage against ballistics, chance to absorb the shell (smaller caliber weapons have better chance to be absorbed)

AMS - Standard AMS
(even with overloaded AMS...doesnt save from the missile death apocalypse)
LAMS - Laser AMS, does much better job of removing missiles, can be disrupted by PPC to open a pocket of time for LRM rain. LAMS has no ammo but generates 1% of heat per second.

These are some of the basics, but piloting alone shouldn't be the only defense we have... otherwise... problematic...

Suck it up buttercup. OMG you get lrm'd on the one totally lrm friendly map. OMG the sky is falling. Give us even moar defenses against the evil LRM.

You and your sad try hard buddies can stick to your alpha laser vomit and try to convince yourself that you have skillz if you want but if you are stupid enough not to use all the cover on highlands, run an ecm mech or two, take ams, or use radar derp then you are as pathetic as your post makes you sound.

LRM whiners are the lowest of a group of pathetic whiners.

[Mead]

Yeah, we totally need more ways to "Dial W for Murder" and not actual gameplay.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Current tech isn't even balanced... hell the basic 3025 level tech isn't even balanced [though it's the closest to being balanced than all the lostech/clantech]

And you want NEW stuff, which will only complicate balance even further... yeah how about we get the foundation settled before we start building more crap on it?

[Appogee]

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

You are standing in the middle of open snow getting viciously ripped apart by 300 LRMS fired by every enemy mech.

I stopped reading at this point.

Why are you standing in the middle of open snow...?

I am no fan of LRMs, but there is plenty of cover on Polar Highlands if you and your team care to use it.

Edited by Appogee, 01 March 2016 - 06:23 AM.

[Imperius]

wamX, on 29 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

So we really need some new tech, new weapons, new SOMETHING.

With the recent (sort of) release of Polar Rainlands, there is only one build being absolutely abused. And with the Archer coming out, it wont get much better.

The smart-nob will say "Lrn 2 ply" or "get bettr covr" because they're idiots that don't understand the nature of the problem.

I come from a gaming community that HATES the use of LRMs, the use of direct fire is how we fight. That's beside the point.

In fact, I'm all in favor of those who fight with LRMs. They serve a purpose. They might need tweaking on the development side, but again. Beside the point.

You are standing in the middle of open snow getting viciously ripped apart by 300 LRMS fired by every enemy mech. Even with AMS you shave like...3 - 6 missiles off of the volleys and still get overwhelmed anyway, dying in a few seconds to the other 297 - 294 missiles.

Can we get LAMS? More effective of removing missiles but generates heat?

More than 1 AMS hardpoint on mechs? its a trade-off between doing damage and reducing damage taken.

The nature of the problem is that we have weapons that dont have a good set of defensive measures other than the obvious get behind a building, hope your enemy misses, or hope your AMS kills off the LRM5...but nothing else.

Devs, can we see more armor variants? I remember in MW4 you can choose between Standard, Ferro Fibrous, Reflective, and (the name I forget) that was better suited for ballistics.

Standard - Standard armor
Ferro Fibrous - Slightly better armor
Reflective - Standard armor but reduced damage recieved against energy weapon, chance to deflect the beam
Hardened Ballistics armor? - Standard armor but reduced damage against ballistics, chance to absorb the shell (smaller caliber weapons have better chance to be absorbed)

AMS - Standard AMS
(even with overloaded AMS...doesnt save from the missile death apocalypse)
LAMS - Laser AMS, does much better job of removing missiles, can be disrupted by PPC to open a pocket of time for LRM rain. LAMS has no ammo but generates 1% of heat per second.

These are some of the basics, but piloting alone shouldn't be the only defense we have... otherwise... problematic...

I tried to push this back in January nothing but opposition good luck bro! Too many in these forums want to live in 3025.

[pbiggz]

Imperius, on 01 March 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

I tried to push this back in January nothing but opposition good luck bro! Too many in these forums want to live in 3025.

Mention reflective and reactive armor and khobai will crash your thread and complain about passive buff power creep.

[Bud Crue]

Imperius, on 01 March 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

I tried to push this back in January nothing but opposition good luck bro! Too many in these forums want to live in 3025.

Perhaps there are some who "want to live in 3025", but the overall vibe I get from the majority of "new stuff" critics is about the need to correct and balance the performance of the toys we currently are playing with BEFORE more toys are dumped into the game.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bud Crue, on 01 March 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

but the overall vibe I get from the majority of "new stuff" critics is about the need to correct and balance the performance of the toys we currently are playing with BEFORE more toys are dumped into the game.

The problem with this, is balance will always be an on going task, and while I wish more stuff was balanced currently, I would also like more variety for weapons for mechs with odd/unfortunate hardpoints.

[Mead]

Bud Crue, on 01 March 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

Perhaps there are some who "want to live in 3025", but the overall vibe I get from the majority of "new stuff" critics is about the need to correct and balance the performance of the toys we currently are playing with BEFORE more toys are dumped into the game.

Gotta love the False Dichotomy Gang

[Bud Crue]

Mead, on 01 March 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Gotta love the False Dichotomy Gang

I don't think it is a false dichotomy to want to fix what we have before adding to it. Yes we could add to what we have, but it seems reasonable to me that such additions be they "light fusion engines", MRMs, heavy gauss, etc. would exacerbate the current balance issues, and if the new weapons/tech provided clear advantages over what we currently have, then wouldn't that just continue the perceived monotony that we already suffer from? In other words: if three options become four via new stuff, if the fourth option is distinctly better than there no reason to take options one-three...that's monotonous.

[Raso]

Everyone is arguing about LRMs and I'm over here waiting to slap a set of RAC2s on my Jagermeh...

[Figure 11]

This distinctly mediocre tier 4 player has figured out how to dodge LRMs fairly consistently.

Except this morning where someone sneaked in a UAV and i got blown to bits by a bajillion LRMs blotting out the sun. Cest la vie.

[Mead]

Bud Crue, on 01 March 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

I don't think it is a false dichotomy to want to fix what we have before adding to it. Yes we could add to what we have, but it seems reasonable to me that such additions be they "light fusion engines", MRMs, heavy gauss, etc. would exacerbate the current balance issues, and if the new weapons/tech provided clear advantages over what we currently have, then wouldn't that just continue the perceived monotony that we already suffer from? In other words: if three options become four via new stuff, if the fourth option is distinctly better than there no reason to take options one-three...that's monotonous.

I was agreeing with you. "If you don't want new weapons you must be a 3025-or-gtfo moron" is a false dichotomy. As you point out, there are more options.