123 replies to this topic

[Sigilum Sanctum]

MrMadguy, on 01 March 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

Quod erat demonstrandum.

You're using that wrong.

[Aresye]

SQW, on 01 March 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

You'd think for a mode purported to be all about elite team work, the map design, the choke points and limited maneuver areas all points to individual heroic and brute force fire power. It's like they aren't even try to hide their pandering to the big egos who spends hundreds on the game but in return, demand positive K/D and Win/Loss ratio.

LRM/NARC/TAG are the only holy trinity of teamwork tools in MWO. Guess which weapons get used the least in CW? PGI purposely made the walls at the base so high that LRMs can't hit approaching mechs beyond the gate, even though obstacles 1/3 as high are equally effective at funneling, and forces engagement at 400m for the benefit of power gamers.

- VOIP
- Focus FIre
- Strength in Numbers
- Threat Prioritization/Build Familiarity
- UAV Placement/Anticipated Team Movement
- Holding Locks/Cycling Targets
- Good Scouting
- Personal Health
- Teammate Health
- Situational Awareness/Flow of the Game
- Etc...

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Aresye, on 01 March 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

- VOIP
- Focus FIre
- Strength in Numbers
- Threat Prioritization/Build Familiarity
- UAV Placement/Anticipated Team Movement
- Holding Locks/Cycling Targets
- Good Scouting
- Personal Health
- Teammate Health
- Situational Awareness/Flow of the Game
- Etc...

It's almost as if...there's more to this game than what's immediately given to us. Go figure.

[Onimusha shin]

PEEFsmash, on 01 March 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Which brings me to elitism. Yes, I probably fit some people's definition of an elitist, especially when "elitist" is dilluted down to the rather tame definition of, "someone who thinks a game should be balanced at the top competitive level instead of the low or mid level where highly inconsistent play and egregious mistakes dictate match results." Yes, I said that low and mid level players almost never win or lose due to weapon or mech or gamemode balance, but instead win or lose due to their own mistakes, inconsistencies, or lack of FPS skills. It might not be the nicest-sounding thing to say, but does anyone actually disagree?

PEEF peefing away.

Seriously, I don't claim to know this dude but watched his stream a couple times and dropped with him in Church of Skill. There's nothing condescending about PEEF compared to some more haughty dudes in my unit MercStar.

So idk what Taro's beef with PEEF is but going back on topic, it's pointless to let low/mid level scrub players dictate game balance simple because, they don't understand the intricacies of balance and building optimized mechs.

And trying to disavow comp players simply because you can't match up to them nor understand them, not to mention considering them elitist, is simply detrimental to the future of MWO and other similarly competitive-balanced games.

Russ/PGI may not always admit it but the comp players are their best QA free labour employees because, comp players make the MOST effort to find bugs/exploits that hurt game balance.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

...and actually force in the competition queues and modes that the Comps claim to want.

MRBC, RHoD, NBT, -MS- Tourney for MS Awareness, Major League Mechwarrior

These are player organized, player drive tournaments and leagues.

These teams do internal practices in privates, zero cbills all night.
They do scrims vs. other teams, zero cbills all night.


It's not a "claim" - they are actually doing it, and proving it.

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

But folk gotta realise that the Quickplay queue...

PSR was supposed to do that.

It was supposed to separate the chaff from the wheat.


Instead of getting drops as T1 where everyone is right around the same skill level and therefore having good, hard fought matches - T1s are still being teamed with clowns who don't even know what direction to go at the start of a match.


That's not the players fault.


I've even told Russ on twitter I would literally pay MC for "super premium time" that makes me wait longer for more competitive matches.


https://twitter.com/...981564406800384

https://twitter.com/...981830598234113

[Deathlike]

Ultimax, on 01 March 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

MRBC, RHoD, NBT, -MS- Tourney for MS Awareness, Major League Mechwarrior

These are player organized, player drive tournaments and leagues.

These teams do internal practices in privates, zero cbills all night.
They do scrims vs. other teams, zero cbills all night.


It's not a "claim" - they are actually doing it, and proving it.





PSR was supposed to do that.

It was supposed to separate the chaff from the wheat.


Instead of getting drops as T1 where everyone is right around the same skill level and therefore having good, hard fought matches - T1s are still being teamed with clowns who don't even know what direction to go at the start of a match.


That's not the players fault.


I've even told Russ on twitter I would literally pay MC for "super premium time" that makes me wait longer for more competitive matches.


https://twitter.com/...981564406800384

https://twitter.com/...981830598234113

To be fair, there's really not enough comp players to matter.

As long as there are many that "grind that XP bar" to its max (whether intentionally or not) regardless of how good they are, you will still get garbage for solo drops, and vastly different experiences in the group queue.

Up to a certain point, "mediocrity" is the new norm.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 01 March 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

You're using that wrong.

That's what she said!

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 01 March 2016 - 06:07 PM, said:

To be fair, there's really not enough comp players to matter.

As long as there are many that "grind that XP bar" to its max (whether intentionally or not) regardless of how good they are, you will still get garbage for solo drops, and vastly different experiences in the group queue.

Up to a certain point, "mediocrity" is the new norm.

Doesn't even need to be actual, competition match focused, players.

Its a shooting game, wanting to win pretty much comes with the territory for a lot of players.


If PSR made matches were limited to within 1 Tier in either direction, earning PSR was a bit more zero sum - things could be improved a bit.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Whenever I see someone casually throwing around the term 'elitism' all I can think of are those glue eaters that get on WebMD and argue with their doctor or when Indiana state legislature attempted change the value of pi through legislative fiat.

[MrMadguy]

All you need to prove elitism theory - is to compare forum stats with real ingame ones. You will see enormous bias. For example, if you'll look at some poll at MMOChampion, you'll see, that 90% of players are against LFR or want Cata's hard 5ppls back. But in reality raiders and hardcores - are just 10% of playerbase. Cata's 4.0 patch fail - is the best proof of that fact (game catered to raider and was losing one player every 4 seconds, lol). And only tiny minority of them are in principle enough to hate LFR and hardcore enough to love hard 5ppls - about 1% of hardcore raiders.

Same here. You see "Tier 1" tags to the left of half of posts in this thread and all people, who don't have them - are considered "3rd grade people". But the sad truth is in fact, that Tier 1 players - are just tiny vocal minority. And this is the biggest mistake of all gamedevs - to cater to forum vocal minority. To players, like this, who demands making game accessible only for 1% of hardcore players, cuz it would be literally nothing to do for casual player there (and new games, like Wildstar, that tried to cater to Vanilla/BC fanboy crowd and failed - are the best proof of this fact), but don't understand, that 1% won't be able to pay for their content by themselves - it's dirty casuals, how are paying for their content and making it worth developers' resources:

Edited by MrMadguy, 01 March 2016 - 11:02 PM.

[kesmai]

Strange thread is strange. Why not resolving your gripes with a good old one on one. Oh, wait.


i'd rather drop with the aresyes, mcgrals, and peefs in this game than with the mr madguys and bishop steiners.

i rather lose a game against sjr lords or emp than winning one against units that aren't even able to put up any resistance.

[Moldur]

They are out there, somewhere.. in the ether.

[Jon Gotham]

Monkey Lover, on 29 February 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

Everything i see from pgi has been to nerf units/groups and competitive players when ever the solo + buddy player has any issues. So, these topics really dont matter.

The war on teamwork continues apace.

Edited by Jon Gotham, 02 March 2016 - 01:04 AM.

[Aresye]

MrMadguy, on 01 March 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Same here. You see "Tier 1" tags to the left of half of posts in this thread and all people, who don't have them - are considered "3rd grade people". But the sad truth is in fact, that Tier 1 players - are just tiny vocal minority. And this is the biggest mistake of all gamedevs - to cater to forum vocal minority. To players, like this, who demands making game accessible only for 1% of hardcore players, cuz it would be literally nothing to do for casual player there (and new games, like Wildstar, that tried to cater to Vanilla/BC fanboy crowd and failed - are the best proof of this fact), but don't understand, that 1% won't be able to pay for their content by themselves - it's dirty casuals, how are paying for their content and making it worth developers' resources:

So once Bishop Steiner reaches T1, he's automatically going to be part of the "vocal minority" of tryhards right? His opinion suddenly won't matter anymore, and anytime he disagrees with somebody in a lesser tier it's because he considers them "3rd grade people?"

Do you think I or any other T1 players would magically accept your illogical opinion if you had a "1" next to your name? If you do, then you clearly haven't seen most of us T1 folks disagreeing with each other just as much as we disagree with everybody else.

I wear my "1" proudly next to my name, not because it has any significance to my playing ability, but because it signifies that I am experienced enough to know that tiers don't mean jack s***. It's quite literally like bait, so when people like you bring it up as having some form or correlation to in-game performance and/or status, I automatically know you don't even have the slightest clue, because you aren't even knowledgeable enough to understand the flaws in the tier system.

[kesmai]

There is a reason i don't display my tier + everyone bitching about their own tier or the tiers of others is an plain ******** idiot in my eyes. You can wear the badge with pride, it shows that you have experience, but why even talk about it?

Edited by kesmai, 02 March 2016 - 01:59 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Aresye, on 02 March 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

So once Bishop Steiner reaches T1, he's automatically going to be part of the "vocal minority" of tryhards right? His opinion suddenly won't matter anymore, and anytime he disagrees with somebody in a lesser tier it's because he considers them "3rd grade people?"

Do you think I or any other T1 players would magically accept your illogical opinion if you had a "1" next to your name? If you do, then you clearly haven't seen most of us T1 folks disagreeing with each other just as much as we disagree with everybody else.

I wear my "1" proudly next to my name, not because it has any significance to my playing ability, but because it signifies that I am experienced enough to know that tiers don't mean jack s***. It's quite literally like bait, so when people like you bring it up as having some form or correlation to in-game performance and/or status, I automatically know you don't even have the slightest clue, because you aren't even knowledgeable enough to understand the flaws in the tier system.

"Tier 1" tag - is just an example of attribute, that is used to identify "elite". This game doesn't have group queue LFG, but if it would, you would definitely see group descriptions like "Tier 1 only", "no LRMs" or "Ace of Spades only".

Edited by MrMadguy, 02 March 2016 - 02:03 AM.

[kesmai]

Dear mrmadguy. Your last post was an eye opener. I really like your ideas with the group queue.

Edited by kesmai, 02 March 2016 - 02:09 AM.

[Wolfways]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 February 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

The last thing the competitive scene wants is monotony or easy mode.

Yeah that's why they don't use meta and are constantly hounding pgi to give LRM's massive buffs

I hate the use of "comp players" as it implies that anyone who doesn't follow the crowd doesn't want to win.

Edited by Wolfways, 02 March 2016 - 02:33 AM.

[Meathook]

Wolfways, on 02 March 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

Yeah that's why they don't use meta and are constantly hounding pgi to give LRM's massive buffs

I hate the use of "comp players" as it implies that anyone who doesn't follow the crowd doesn't want to win.

Thats why they try to get a balance that ends the current meta. The current meta isn't used because it is the most fun, but because it is the most effective choice. If you have different strategies available and one of them is vastly superior its only natural to pick that one, isn't it? (Apart from "playing for the lulz")

Edited by Meathook, 02 March 2016 - 02:43 AM.

[Wolfways]

Meathook, on 02 March 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

Thats why they try to get a balance that ends the current meta. The current meta isn't used because it is the most fun, but because it is the most effective choice. If you have different strategies available and one of them is vastly superior its only natural to pick that one, isn't it? (Apart from "playing for the lulz")

I'm sure easy mode is exactly why many use meta. Easy = fun for many players.
But then I find meta isn't always better. A meta TBR is "better" than a non-meta TBR, so much that it puts it on par with a stock weapon JM6-S, yet people claim the TBR is the best mech in the game lol.
Lasers are meta, yet AC's do a hell of a lot more damage.